Lactate Threshold Training

13

Comments

  • Cheers Mikhail - I did 13.1 at marathon effort today in 1.23.20, with 20 miles in total. I am falling short of 2.45 conditioning right now but perhaps 7 weeks more preparation will sort that out.
  • That's temptingly close. As you say a few more weeks conditioning and decent conditions on the day and it might happen.
  • How'd it go at Reading ? It was a bit windy yesterday ...
  • It WAS windy so I was a couple of minutes slower than at Hampton Court which is also flatter. However I was faster than at Reading last year with perfect conditions then.

    My 5K splits should have been 22.55 and it was good to see that I was closer to this in 2017 with less fading in the second half - the last couple of km into the headwind was a grind though!


    Distance            R 16 R 17
    5k                     23.03 23.08
    10k                   22.08 22.44
    15k                   23.47 23.09
    20k                   23.54 23.22

    Checked out other runners Garmin data and it is surprising what a low percentage of their distance is 'hard pace' but as you know frequency of running is all.

    Steve Way managed to run the whole distance at a pace that I can hold for 400 to 800m!

    https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1628498267
  • Seems good that you are staying strong to the end especially with the extra effort against the wind. What do your weeks look like now in terms of structure and mileage ?

    I like that Steve Way heart rate profile - almost exactly the same as mine from Sunday's half. Mine averaged 160 bpm too, though my wind affected pace was 5.52 min/mile.

  • That's still a good pace that leaves a sub 3.45 possible.

    So based on last two HM - I am 4.35km at 166/167HR - Max HR is 175.

    Typical Week now;

    Tuesday Intervals from 3 to 6 x 400 at 3.30km to 4 x 1600m at 3.55km pace or 5K at 4.10 pace. - Hard

    Thursday is 10k at 4.30km HR 158 - might range between 5K and 15K. - Lower Tempo

    Saturday is 7K to 12K easy 5.15 to 5.45km - HR 133

    Sunday is 15K to 30K easy 5.15 to 5.45km - HR 137

    I have started adding a few strides and one or two fast KM at 4.15/4.30Km on the easy runs.

    Any suggested amendments welcome.
  • I tend to think that the Thursday run is too hard at 158 effort when combined with the intervals on Tuesday. 150bpm is more like it for 10-15km of volume. That's taking it down to around marathon effort, while you're running those close to half marathon/threshold.

    The balance is still a bit off for me. 4 runs, 2 hard, 2 easy. I'd find that a bit tough at my age. I do maybe 6-8 runs a week (one rest day, one or two double days) and one of them will be at marathon pace or threshold effort. The rest will be easy with strides and maybe if I'm not racing for a while, I'll consider a progression run, a hill session or fartlek. So that makes the bulk of my mileage easy or recovery effort. However, I always do a race phase before a target race, which is a 2-3 week period of committing to a hard effort in tune up races.   
  • Yes - I think you are right. I was following the three day a week 'First Programme' and I've just slowed the pace and dumped an extra run in on the Saturday. The Tuesday and Thursday hard sessions don't make sense. I definitely need one Threshold or VO2 Max session each week but I'll make the other three Easy and experiment with a few other variants. Hills are tricky as I'm in central London although I tend to binge on hills when I go to the Lake District!

    I see you did Wilmslow. I lived near there and did it in 2004 - just a one off with a couple of months training. It's a nice flat rural course. I was pleased with 1.44 at age 39 so 13 years later its great to still be well under 1.40!

    I'm thinking of stepping up to five runs a week and hoping my wife won't notice!
  • I think the other missing bit of structure is the easy medium long run - with half marathon being your goal this would underpin the endurance side. But even a couple of 30 minute easy runs Weds and Fri will make a difference if you can fit them in.

    Yes, it was my first time in Wilmslow - reasonably flat but there were a few dips and rises to contend with and a gradual climb back from 6 miles. It was lovely road route and the villages and country piles did make me wonder where I'd gone wrong in life ! Nice also to drive past Jodrell Bank.

  • Sub17ParkRunSub17ParkRun ✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Well done, MK! You are well on track to improving towards running sub 1:40 in a HM.
  • Best 10K for 18 months today - better still the splits and HR were what I hoped.

    Avg Pace Avg HR Max HR
    1 00:04:15 146 159
    2 00:04:20 162 167
    3 00:04:16 165 168
    4 00:04:20 166 170
    5 00:04:27 169 172
    6 00:04:20 170 174
    7 00:04:15 169 173
    8 00:04:18 171 174
    9 00:04:30 171 176
    10 00:04:04 173 177
    Avg 00:04:18 166 177

    I have replanned my training along the lines you suggest Muddyfunster - I still can't believe all this plodding around with one or at most two hard sessions per week works but it does.
  • Well done Mikhail ! I make that 43 mins bang on ?

    Glad it's working out for you. It may even help with your wife as you should have much less recovery time from training and energy for other activities.
  • Weather Forecast for Sunday looks good so hope your final preparations are going to plan and that sub 2.45 is a probability as well as a possibility.  It's an amazing event (I did it once 9 years ago) and plan to be waving everyone on as I live 5 minutes from the route.   Have a good one!
  • Cheers Mikhail - all not quite to plan, as tore my shin muscle and missed an 18 and a 13 mile run in the taper period. It's healed though and managed a 17.15 parkrun last weekend which indicates a 2.48 finish time. My V02 readings are around where they were for Wilmslow (which equated to a 2.42 mara) so I guess I have a fighting chance of 2.45.

    Whereabouts will you be spectating ?
  • Usually on a Bridge over Lower Thames Street (mile 23.5) - but sometimes we check out a Boris Bike and travel anywhere between Canary Wharf and The Mall.  

    Poplar is always fun as it is too far from a tube for travelling supporters so you just get East Londoners - a couple of years ago we saw entire families had lined the route that passed their homes with sofas and chairs handing out sweets, crisps and beers.

    Late afternoon the 7 hour participants are inspiring as they finish the final couple of miles but they suffer in a very different way to the sub 3 hour runners.  

    At least at your pace you will be well ahead of the crowds of runners within a few miles. 
  • I think I'll be wearing the club vest (as in profile photo) so give me a shout - I'm sure I'll be shattered come 23.5 ! I've not got my name printed on the vest though and could well be unresponsive by then  :#

    A chap from work is doing it so I'll probably hang about for him coming in around the 4.30-5 hour mark.
  • I'll look out for you - you should be there around 12.20 to 12.30 I reckon.  Cheers.
  • How did you get on?  I missed you on the course but I think I saw you on the clip of the Chorlton and Swansea guys being all dramatic near the end.  That would have made you around 2.51?  Well done.  Did you enjoy it?
  • Yeah I ran 2.50.58 and featured as a selfish runner in that clip ;) 

    I did not enjoy it! My shin didn't hold so I found it a big struggle from 14 ish.  Spine tingling atmosphere round the Cutty Sark but apart from that quite a tunnel visioned slog. 
  • Mikhail KopylovMikhail Kopylov ✭✭✭
    edited April 2017
  • You were there to run a race not promote yourself on social media. ;o).  Sorry the injury kicked in.  Hope you can make decent recovery now.  Stupidly long way to run so hopefully you can 'enjoy' some shorter races for the remainder of this year.  Well done again.
  • Following 1.36/1.38 at Hampton Court and Reading, based on my pre taper numbers I was on for a 1.35 at Hackney but sadly a cold during the taper put paid to that.  Not discouraged I went for it anyway but my HR at 1OK told me to ease off which I did for 6K and then pushed home.  1.37 disappointing but ok after cold.

    On a positive you can see my strategy in the numbers below so at least I can monitor myself as I run and adjust accordingly - something I couldn't do 12 months ago.

    Split Time Avg HR
    1 04:25.4 144
    2 04:31.1 157
    3 04:31.4 164
    4 04:25.4 166
    5 04:25.3 166
    6 04:29.7 166
    7 04:28.2 168
    8 04:30.4 167
    9 04:28.8 169
    10 04:30.5 171
    11 05:03.9 167
    12 04:41.4 167
    13 04:47.5 165
    14 04:46.6 164
    15 04:46.2 168
    16 04:47.6 168
    17 04:37.4 171
    18 04:42.7 172
    19 04:38.8 170
    20 04:43.7 172
    21 04:33.7 174
  • Yes, I have almost admitted defeat with the marathon. It needs a lot of preparation and recovery.

    Well done on the half... and unlucky with the cold. I note that you are slowing down substantially beyond 10k and the heart rate is trending upwards. It seems like you went above LT early on...
  • It's generally around 10 mile race pace, so probably in the region of 6:43 per mile.
  • Hello all, I was recently offered to do a lactate testing to find out at what HR my real lactate threshold is. But the data I got is inconclusive. I'm not sure what HR to use for my lacatet threshold. I'm a recreational runner with half marathon PB 1:38 and marathon PB 3:40. My max HR is 184. I did a 3 min runs on treadmill with increasing pace. The data I got from testing is:
    1,7 mmol/l at HR 137
    1,3 mmol/l at HR 162
    2,4 mmol/l at HR 171
    4,1 mmol/l at HR 180
    8,3 mmol/l at HR 182

    I'm guessing my lactate threshold is somewhere between 162 and 171. And I should do my tempo runs between 164 and 169. What do you think? Thanks for all your input and sorry for my english I'm not a native speaker. :)
  • Yes.  From the data you provide that looks about right.  The Garmin running watches also measure lactate threshold and you will be able to see if your lactate threshold varies over time.
  • 4 mmol/l is believed to be threshold I think ?
  • Hmmm....I don't think there is a exact number number for the threshold. The threshold is the point where your lactate starts rapidly build up in your blood.
  • I should probably plot a graph, curve fit and look for the inflection point - but it's not my data and I have far too much work to do ;)
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