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Are you and "in" or an "out"?
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I wonder (once Jeremy is dragged away kicking and screaming) if there is any chance of a pro-EU Lib Dem/Labour alliance in the event of an early general election?
A centre party allied with a centre left party would be, unlike the Tories, willing to deliver fairer policies to benefit the poor based on higher taxation (mainly of the wealthy). They could also win big on other issues such as scrapping HS2 and Heathrow's 3rd runway and even bigger by genuinely promising the money saved to the NHS. Not only would it allow them to kick Article 50 into touch (with or without another referendum) but it would royally screw the Tories.
One dreams anyway...
Scream would never be in anyone's shadow
Surely all the damage done to the economy is just the kneejerk reaction to the scare tactics used by the government lead remain campaign.
I think we might need a bit longer than a weekend before you can say "told you so".
Screamy - that was certainly a consideration that floated through the Happy household this weekend.
In reality it would be like looking for a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Which might be the only Plan B we have right now.
I'm more pessimistic than others. I think Labour are in big trouble, and I think UKIP will go from strength to strength in certain areas of the country which were once safe Labour seats.
I'm also quite pessimistic about Labour. Regardless of you political leaning it's not good to have an opposition party that doesn't offer a viable alternative. I was thinking however that with Brexit UKIP would lose it's main platform and you'd be left with a few far right supporters, leaving it to fade into political insignificance like the BNP within a couple of general election cycles.
Vote Screamy!
Here's the thing though, even on the Brexit side - if you can lie your way into it, you can lie your way out of it, right?
It only fell about 3% on the day so reckon that leaves you with about £235k - you'll get by.
Apologies for editing out big chunks and just leaving bits I wanted for brevity.
Basically that is the choice that a lot of people who did think about it were left with.
Ignoring the Farage factor as an unwelcome distraction and the leave Tory party leadership for the same reason that left a lot of people thinking about the 'rich man's social club of the European Union' v 'the good/bad debate on immigration/globalisation'. For many that was a debate with only one side as they viewed them both as bad things.
The EU had the chance to reform prior to this referendum and failed to take it and as far as the EU problems caused by the UK exit vote are concerned this is really a problem of their own making.
We have a lot of transitional problems and the general animosity caused by the 50/50 vote but I'm not convinced that if we fell from the 5th largest economy in the world built on finance to the 40th largest economy in the world that we might not be living in a fairer, happier society. (Scottish people seem to think that anyhow!).
I doubt whatever happens will affect my running or walking in the Lakes (hopefully I'll still manage to put together a picnic of some description).
I see no reason for there to be a war about this.
I see no reason why any immigrant should feel unwelcome because of our vote to leave the EU, where that animosity exists it existed prior to the vote and would have been the same whichever way the vote had gone.
I see no concrete reason yet why following some transitional discussions that the UK and EU will not do a deal similar to what already exists because it is in everyone's best interests.
I see no reason why the NHS, Education or anything else will get either better or worse as a result of this vote either. There was a lot of nonsense talked during this debate by both sides to the extent that most people ignored it and voted for their own stupid reasons. The media are now dragging back up some of these promises because it suits them but there was plenty of negative publicity about the battle bus lies for it really to be a neutral factor in the vote.
<pRe Labour - I agree, that's the point. At the moment they are most definitely not a viable alternative and they need to walk a fine line because a return to "New Labour" politics won't do anything to get those they have alienated back on side. They do, however need to appeal to a broad mass of people which they won't if they move further left.
Promises about immigration on any side, as we know, are empty so the message has to be about investment - in all the things that people were really protesting against - and followed through.
But the centre ground is there for the winning. It's where all your reasonable people are. The Lib Dems are on their way back but it's too soon for them to make a difference alone. I bet Tim Farron would bite their hands off at the suggestion of a Lib/Lab coalition!
I see no reason why any immigrant should feel unwelcome because of our vote to leave the EU, where that animosity exists it existed prior to the vote and would have been the same whichever way the vote had gone.
But the problem is, they say they do. And the referendum has, temporarily at least, given some of the nastiest people the confidence to voice that opinion openly.
And what has the EU ever done for the Lakes - well... https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-35m-cumbria-footpath-fund-launched
I think the famers will suffer too from EU grants and I think they sell almost 40% of their lambs to the EU as well.
Reports of immigrant hatred are on the rise - and its largely down to the divisive campaign which has boiled down to 'kick out the Europeans and we can have our jobs back, and the hospitals which are clearly full of Poles etc won't struggle'
Its ludicrous. Its 1930s Germany again.
The NHS is struggling with old people and underfunding. Its nothing to do with immigration. And without foreign nurses and doctors how would it cope ?
The Leavers feel lied to. Already theres been stickers left on Polish cars telling them to go home. It isn't going to happen. Its crazy and it should have been pointed out before the vote - but that wouldn't help the Leave campaign win.
Let's hope this is the case because obviously that behaviour is abhorrent.
As I've said before a 51:49 vote the other way would have had similar results in the immediate aftermath.
Keeping my pessimistic hat on...I think this result legitimises the racist far right...something we're already seeing in incidents around the country; and I also think UKIP will start kicking up a fuss again when Brexit doesn't give them what they want.
I didn't vote Leave by the way I just think a lot of the current rhetoric is sensationalist.
Re job - yes very much so.
Re Funding for Lakes footpaths - my view is that in or out of the EU the funding situation is pretty neutral so that footpath would just have come from a UK rather than an EU fund.
Farmers and EU grants - similar as above dependent on government but again 'taking control' is always limited by who is actually governing our country which can change every 4 or 5 years.
Who they sell their lambs to - as I said I think that there will be some form of trade agreement - it is certainly too soon to presume there won't be.
The campaign was a disgrace on both sides and I am a little embarrassed to have to discuss the result with some of my European colleagues including Poles.
It is not 1930s Germany again - that is nonsense.
I agree completely with your comments about the NHS except to add that with or without austerity the NHS would be struggling due to the age of the population and medical advancement. The NHS is certainly not struggling because of the influx of 790,000 Poles of working age who are generally healthy.
Leavers were lied to but more than that many people voted the way they did because of the way they felt the country was being run for the rich, a protest vote at the wrong time.
As regards the car stickers there would have been animosity to immigrants whichever way this close vote went by those who are minded to behave in that way.
Send scaffolding Poles home
Send foreign electricians Ohm
Farages wife kr'out
Speaking to someone yesterday who said you can't do anything about recessions. People, governments, businesses haven't got any control over them. They're unpredictable events, like earthquakes. He voted leave by the way. Didn't accept any of the economic warnings put out because, essentially, he believes the market is a random figure generator.
I'm still waiting for the phone call...
Apparently there are more than a million voters who, by Sunday, had already regretted voting to leave...
Surely we'd have to do that if we 'threw the immigrants out' as a lot of people think they voted for.
At least sales of jumpers would go up due to all those Nesh Spanish types coming back. It could kickstart the economy.
SFF - sure the government could give money to the Lake District and so on - but I'd not bet on it. Not one penny.
Will know what will happen when Cameron makes a statement in the House of Commons at 3.30. A historic moment in parliament history. More interesting who will be on the opposition front bench.
I've read back some of my posts and I don't know if it's the autocorrect or me but some of the grammar and syntax is shocking. Apparently I don't know the difference between they'll and there'll. And that's not the worst of it. I have to concentrate really hard not to transpose letters and words. Never was as bad as this. Early onset dementia probably.
Sounds about right DaveTIM. Or they'll be sitting on each other's laps to stay at the back. I used "they'll" right then.
Government already gives money to Lake District and all other National Parks. I think what you mean is that if they have some extra money each week that you don't think they would give it to National Parks - that would be down to government of the day to decide and then us to vote on whether or not we thought that government was doing a good job or not.
I'm pleased that this was the only one of my responses that you chose to dispute.
They are leaving faster than he can appoint them. He's like the cat when I take it to the vet, clinging to the inside of the basket and having to be prised out...
This would so be funny if it wasn't to serious
Burnham is already leaving as he wants to become the new mayor of Manchester which must be better than shadow home secretary.