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meanwhile...rest of EU now more pro-EU...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/08/brexit-causes-resurgence-in-pro-eu-leanings-across-continent
and back here hate crime is up...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/08/police-record-3000-hate-incidents-weeks-around-referendum
I managed to cut myself to the extent where I need stitching up so went to spend a happy 4 hours in a Harold Wood Polyclinic along with all my fellow hopefuls wondering when we'd finally get to see someone.
Strangely, no one in the waiting room seemed to be an immigrant, ok, there may have been a few black faces (can I say that?) but they were all as corblimey english as any of the rest of us, who, I'm afraid, were mainly of the aged, larger variety with a degree of self-inflicted ailments.
So the theory that the NHS would be clogged up with immigrants seemed to be a fallacy, but I appreciate I was only there for 4 hours so the fellow patients I saw may not have been representative.
But, and its a big but, all the medical staff? Not one was a Brit. Every single one had English as a 2nd language.
So, if the closet Racists who abound in this borough had had their way, and sent them all home? No more polyclinic? No one to staff it.
I really do think that the Leave voters just didn't understand the real world we live in and believed the trite aphorisms of Boris & Gove re controlling the movement of people in the modern world, who have now crawled back under the stones and left the rest of us to somehow to cope with the crap they caused.
Labour peace talks broken down...party really could split now.
Leadsom is a nutjob.
It's pretty clear that we will be needing miracles anyway.
Good article by Matthew Syed on the BBC news site. It's about how people routinely twist facts about to suit their original beliefs, even in the face of overwhelming evidence against.
cognitive dissonance
I always wondered what this unhelpful character trait was.
Not much use in a fast changing world. That's a fact. Or maybe it isn't. Depends.
It's based on Blair and the WMD situation.
But can equally apply to Brexit.
🙂
Problem is, no-one really knows which bit of "overwhelming evidence" is true (in either WMD or Brexit).
Our local MP is the opposite - a power hungry career politician who loves a sound bite. His predecessor was fine until he was given a Big Job in the coalition cabinet, then he turned traitor.
http://thebrexitplan.com/
(Sorry for being childish...)
Rumours are that Leadsom is pulling out....
Update. Leadsom has gone and is supporting May to take immediate control as PM. A statement which contradicted most of which she's been saying in prior days. Probably for the best, but makes you wonder what the point of the leadership campaign was. Hope we don't see her in a high profile cabinet position, but wouldn't be too surprised if some horse trading has been going on.
You have to laugh though don't you? Well, sort of.
There's Labour tearing itself apart because Jeremy Corbyn has the support of the membership but the Tories are, "Nah, f*ck the membership, contest's off May's PM".
Nice speech from Theresa earlier - I'll believe it when I see it though...
I despise Theresa May and inlike Corbyn but based on recent history I guess that might mean Theresa will win the next GE with 52% of the vote
Theresa May's speech could have been a speech by a labour party leader. Now the tories have united behind one leader whereas labour continue to squabble like a bunch of fuckwits.
I think she did actually say black and white, male and female, rich and poor. Not listened to all of it yet.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theresa-may-prime-minister-andrea-leadsom-policies-voting-record-human-rights-what-did-she-mean-a7130961.html?campaign_id=A100&campaign_type=Email
The countries full, what do these people have to offer us, too much building of houses[?], immigrants first in queue for housing and benefits, Romainians living under a bridge and shoplifting at Tesco [don't know why they missed out on the free housing], we trade with countries anyway so what difference does it make, doesn't matter about the economy because it's not all about money, the NHS and schools will be better.
Asked where she got all this info from and she said it what's people say and real experience that's more important than statistics and facts. Asked if it annoyed her that immigration might not go down and public funding for the NHS would not rise. No it didn't matter because that's just politics isn't it and you can't believe any of them, but this was a vote about standing up for Britain. And now it's done and so what, it doesn't make any difference.
We've been mates since school. She's no intellectual but about as kind, motivated and productive a person as I know. Leaves me for dead. She's sacrificed a lot to get the absolute best education for her kids. Professional music teacher, works incredibly hard, close friends across the board from every race, nationality and background. And yet all this shit. Most of the time it passed me by as random moaning, but to hear it coalesced into this tower of nonsense, to realise she actually means it...
I was pulling at the threads but eventually just berated her. She's not talking to me now, upset that I verbally abused her and that I need to respect other people's opinions. I have apologised, but tried to explain that I just can't respect those opinions or reasoning when the outcome is the most tangible diminishing of this country we will have experienced in our lifetime. It turns out I'm a patriot after all, but with one less friend.
I'm still sad and dejected about what this country seems to be, what it seems to want. Don't know when that's going to stop.
I doubt it
(Twix not a typo- it is just nicer than twunt)
I think JT...you need to accept people have different opinions...and just get over it...plus, it's ok...May will save us all.
Often people can seem to be fine with some immigrants but not others, of course her friends who are not white British are fine, its all these 'other' immigrants who are taking the jobs, houses, benefits and are all a bunch of criminals which she has probably never met.
Not sure what to make of Theresa May, was rather looking forward to Corbyn vs. Leadsom, would have been two polar opposites.
A lot of Conservatives probably think they can have their cake and eat it with May she won't be burdened by all Vote Leave's ridiculous promises but she is no EU luvvie. Although she did say she doesn't want to rush negotiations but it will happen she had also been quiet about Parliament voting on article 50 or another referendum on terms of exit.
But for now I expect the Tories to band together while Labour tears itself apart.
The press are responsible for a lot of this anti-immigration stuff...the constant front page headlines on the sun/mail/express feed this.
Hopefully May will be very pragmatic in these negotiations, I think best we can getr is membership of the EEA thingy, but with some controls on immigration.
JT
This is a very interesting piece in the Graun about what has happened to "the truth". The pity is that It is often as guilty as some of the other media outlets when it comes to "clickbait":
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jul/12/how-technology-disrupted-the-truth
All I can really say about the new PM is that after everything that's happened in the last few weeks, we have, at least, ended up with a sensible person instead of a nutter. Hopefully as the second woman PM she will be less divisive then the first one was!
I wish her luck. She is going to need it.
JT141. I hear where you're coming from. I'm dreading seeing my dad this Saturday in case the subject comes up. My dad is far from a bigot and you'd probably put him on the left of the Tory party if such a thing exists - but I'm hazarding a guess that he voted leave. He's often mentioning what he believes is a Bulgarian Big Issue vendor in his Bucks town and wondering why he's in this country, as if that feller is the big problem and not poverty throughout the world. I can't talk to him about these things without having my image of my dad besmirched a little...
Being a bit tribal is also very natural, but at thankfully half of the U.K Seem to have gotten over that, instead thinking of the suffering of others rather than trying to chase of those who look different.
My dad was a member of BNP. He is a racist. He voted leave.
Just read through these posts. As per Mr Collins I was dreading seeing my Dad at the weekend who is just 89 and has had some dubious opinions on race in the past. But I plucked up the courage and raised subject ... nearly fell of my seat when he said the vote should be about the young people, by voting leave we are restricting and destroying their future opportunities, he couldn't understand how people could be so intolerant and narrow minded to vote leave etc etc. .. He got a big hug!
Opposite end my in laws voted leave because they wanted things to go back to what they were like before the EU - I couldn't quite get them to narrow it down re whether that meant world wars, depressions, rationing, oil crisis, 3 day week - but the Daily Mail was quoted and praised as the main source of their opinion.
I think that when you base your opinions solely on someone else's opinions, be it your mate down the pub or your newspaper of choice, rather than trying to look for some facts and stats, you deserve every negative thing that comes your way as a result.
My mum lives in Cornwall. She voted out - so against the EU funding for high-speed broadband, new roads, Eden Project, university campus in Falmouth, harbourside regeneration in Hayle, clean water standards for the beaches, Poles and Slovaks who pick all the fruit and veg etc etc.
Worse, Muttley Jnr voted out as well - so against his own employer, the Navy, which will shrink when Scotland peels away. And against the chance after his service to go to uni in continental Europe for a fraction of the price.
Oh well. They're still family and I'm not going to fall out with them over this, but I do wonder what possessed them.
Hi Muttley - I don't agree with your direct link between someone in Cornwall voting out and them voting against all the EU funding.
Net we fund the EU - that is not a myth, only the size of that funding has been exaggerated on the side of buses.
By voting out what she is possibly voting for is trust in our own government that they will continue to see that funding as a priority when they have control of the funds.
This of course would mean that there would be less for the NHS (as is the situation now whilst we are a net funder of the EU) - the same money can't fund everything. My guess is that the type of projects that receive EU funding now will have a similar pot of UK funding to claim grants from but that there will not be as much because some of it will be syphoned off for NHS etc.
Similarly we can have our own laws and regulations on clean water standards and the Poles and Slovaks can still come here and pick all the fruit provided that the company/farm goes through whatever fairly simple system replaces free movement (if free movement is even abolished) to employ those people.
Re Muttley jnr - is it really right that a vote for Leave equated to a vote for Scotland and England to split or was that just a possible side consequence promoted by other people to suit their own purposes - surely it wasn't the main thing that was being voted on? Possibly you should respect your son for making the decision not based on selfish personal factors? It depends why he voted leave.
I think the Uni thing will get sorted out too because loads of Europeans are still going to want to come to the UK as part of our Uni System so these swaps/placements will still take place.
So don't fall out with your family there is no need.
So many people on this thread have a totally black and white view of this whole subject - it was grey, there were arguments for and against leaving or staying and each person's decision was based on which of the issues they gave the most weight too.
Yes there were lots of untruths told throughout the campaign (by both sides in my opinion but Leave told the bigger whoppers) and a lot of people voted leave for the wrong (and in many cases silly reasons) but there were valid reasons for voting leave and a lot of the reasons you quote are not valid reasons for voting Remain.
I voted Remain. It was 51:49 for me. I did not foresee the rise in xenophopic tension as a result of the vote for Leave but I still think a similar rise would have been seen if it had been 52:48 for Remain. Lets face it there has been a building tension for a few years leading up to the vote.