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Corbyn's on the ballot.
A lot of families (and friends) did fall out.
And now the dust has largely settled, they are having to deal with a set of conditions which are exactly the same as they were before the vote; and probably for the foreseeable future.
Apart from the wrecked relationships that is. Such is the impact of 'heat of the moment decisions'. Act in haste -repent at leisure and all that.
Governments fault. Obviously.
🙂
Awesome building. Stands tall over Manchester and you can see it for miles around. He had faith in his work.
Compare with the architects of the Leave campaign. Why did they all bugger off away? Is it because their creation will fall down on our heads?
If the builders aren't going anywhere near their handiwork - why would anyone else. I think May is going to get squashed by it. As will the country.
My father in law is from a family of 'norn iron' Unionist bigots. I sent him the 'Boris in the bunker' clip end he basically ignored it/me and never mentioned it bit Brexit when I saw him on Friday. Maybe he didn't fancy having to defend a political position that he can't explain without saying something racist.
Muttley, you seem like a very sensible person. I have family members who make me wonder if we share any of the same genes. It must be a case of nature over nurture I guess. Or the other way round possibly. But they are not wise.
Totally agree with the basis of what you are saying - we are trusting the government we vote for which is currently the Tories to act in the country's best interests with the taxes they take from us with the option every five years of replacing them with another lot if enough of us don't like what they are doing.
The Referendum debate could have been framed in this way.
We currently make a net payment of X% of our total government spending on a subscription to be a member of the European Union. For this we get the following a,b,c,d,e,f,g. Not all of these may be seen as benefits.
If we leave the EU then our plan would be to use this money in the following ways and to address issues from not getting b,f and g in the following ways.
One of the key problems in the last couple of weeks is that the Leave campaign fought for a Leave vote without a common vision of what would happen if they won - post the vote there were 7 or 8 different options from Leave campaigners as to what they thought should happen.
Andrea Leadsom thinks we should trigger Article 50 immediately.
Liam Fox says we need a 'period of reflection' before we trigger Article 50.
Chris Grayling says Article 50 should only be invoked once Britain is ready to negotiate.
Boris Johnson says there is 'no need for haste' in triggering Article 50 and nothing should change in the short-term.
Michael Gove says Article 50 should not be triggered until at least next year.
Douglas Carswell says Article 50 won't be triggered until January 2017, after informal talks from September.
Nigel Farage thinks the British government shouldn't spend too long in triggering Article 50.
Teresa May (now the Prime Minister and the only Remainer quoted here) says we need to secure better deals BEFORE we trigger Article 50.
Whilst Theresa may (see what I did there?) not be everyone's choice at least now the decision as to what to do now is focussed on one person and that change has happened a whole lot quicker than was originally envisaged. Whether she follows what she said above remains to be seen.
The fact she probably doesn't have a clue what to do now is something hopefully she will be able to hide quite well from us and the world at large!
What she needs to do is bring Mark Carney in as her special advisor. He is the smartest cookie in the country in terms of working out what is going to ruin the uk. He did say Brexit would cause huge problems but no one wanted to listen to experts- apparently.
That Osborne twunt helped cause this fiasco. Stealing from the poor then asking them to trust that you'll see them right this time is a stupid tactic.
Hmmm - my wife likes him a bit too much!
52% of people didn't listen to experts and possibly 48% did?
Basically bar rounding errors as a nation we voted that we are undecided whether or not we should be in the EU.
I did ask Sprog 2 how did I decide which set of experts to believe ? He told me that was down to education, so in Sprog 2's eyes the leavers are thick
These are:
- adopting a European free trade area like Norway or Switzerland (Boris J)
- negotiate some special deal with Europe and rest of world (Leadsom/ukip)
- turning our backs on Europe and deporting all foreigners (ukip/bnp/britain first and rest of far right nut jobs).
If this had been a first past the post with four options presented remain would likely have won as the leave vote would have been split.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/13/billionaires-bought-brexit-controlling-britains-political-system?campaign_id=A100&campaign_type=Email
Yes - I would have gone slightly further (to make it fair) and had an option Remain but go all in ie lose the pound and possibly Remain In but another referendum in X years if EU does not improve (bit wishy washy but I CNBA to think through exactly what this option should be.
Then you would have had 6 options (3 each side) and you could add an extra proviso that if no one option got greater than 25% then status quo (ie Remain has two chances of winning, the second being nobody favours an alternative strongly enough for us to go through the mechanics of changing).
Interesting article but it would be better if it could quote similar links between funding and votes at previous elections. It does hint that Labour is partly in the shit because it's lost it's big money backers which is similar I suppose.
The campaign for teh EU was more like an american campaign than a british one..just lots of soundbites and empty promises with no facts.....
just a big battle and you know that whatever party is in power then the real power is the guys with the big money behind them..
The tories first announcement was for business...not an announcement to match the funds that the EU earmarks for deprived areas.....A tory government will never get in in Wales so why would they even bother paying half the amount into teh region that the EU does...
Its not a democracy where big sections of the country have no say
Cameron's just left. Good work Dave, well done.
Quick rant... apologies just want to get it off my chest.... and shouting at myself alone in my study just doesn't work. Agreeing with "seren nos".
Why oh why do we think a referendum solves anything. We have a representative democracy that is built around elected representatives building a consensus around complex issues. A referendum yes or no cannot answer the multitude of decisions that need to be made. A random sample of my family leave voters and why they voted leave are (1) immigration/free movement (2) sovereignty (3) just to shake up politics in this country (its done that!) and (4) a miscellaneous protest - not one voted for all reasons and all disagreed with at least 1 or 2 of the other reasons. Now we have politicians say that "The people" have voted to stop free movement - well how do we know the majority have. May well be as many remainers may want to stop free movement but who knows....
Did I forget to turn the voting slip over where the 200+ individual questions that need answering were listed?
We now have political parties using this vote to create a mandate that doesn't really exist. We also have a situation where such major changes to the country are potentially now going to go through with minimal or no real parliamentary process or debate.
The referendum is the opposite of democracy. I'm sure someone famous referred to them as purely tools of despots and totalitarian regimes.
Apologies. Back to work.
David - this is the place to rant. Agree with all you say...the whole thing is totally crazy and unnecessary....but we are where we are and there's no way back I don't think. Best to hope for is May and co manage to negotiate a good deal with the EU.
They can't do that as why would countries want to be in the EU then ?
I can't see the EU being overly kind to us - its not in their interests and it would encourage others to leave.
Stupid stupid voters.
It won't be a better deal, but hopefully it will be like something like what Norway has but with some controls on immigration.
I hope we have some good negotiators !
May will sort it. She's awesome.
The free movement of people is a non negotiable condition of free trade for the EU. Also every member state will have to agree to THAT or any other deal that is made. I reckon Poland might say no to any deal that says their hardworking and economically productive people are not welcome in the uk because of right wing fascists.
The attitude of 'Oligarchs fine, bring them all in. Working People? No way! Not even in a month of May' is not winning the U.K any friends.
The rich pushed for this because they want to turn London into a tax haven. Interestingly some Londoners want independence from the U.K. We are fucked,
Well anyway, it was nice to see Larry the Cat getting an honourable mention at PMQs...
Seren - the Leave campaign was designed to be precisely like an American campaign and to be short on facts and high on emotion. Now I am not an an advocate of violence or anything but if something very nasty happened to Aaron Banks it would be cause for opening a bottle of bubbly.
David - precisely so. Every protest imaginable was hung on the back of the referendum. David Cameron was terribly naive in not seeing what was coming or, if not him personally, his advisors.
VDOT - this puts paid to any idea of the country becoming less London-centric If anything it will become more so. London's status as a financial and economic powerhouse will be protected at all costs and there is already a move to keep more of the taxes that London generates in London.
No real revolution is ever fought for (either visibly or behind the scenes) by those who have something to lose.
This was a scam by the rich for the rich and for which the poorest will end up paying the bill.
Still it isn't hurting me so I probably shouldn't care. But I do.
Mark Carney got verbally attacked for his perfectly accurate assessment of what would happen in the event of a Leave vote.
That moggy twunt probably thinks that weather forecasters make it rain.
I watch from a safe distance.
All I can do really.
🙂
I'd be more worried about Labour if May wasn't such a lefty.
Foreign office for Johnson?!?
Minister for drought.
Send him to the Sahara.
🙂
It is Foreign secretary. HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..