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Are you and "in" or an "out"?
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So, has the world ended yet due to Brexit?
Still coming across people who had severe arguments with friends they are no longer talking to, about which way they voted.
Today's fall out involved a couple of women in their late 70's; one whose grand-daughter is 'very politically minded'.
No idea about the details. All I could think about was that my older brother had 'dealings' with the mother (of the politically minded one) over 30 years ago.
I doubt if politics featured.
🙂
As LJS and I live/work in Germany we were disenfrachised, the Government of the day said in order to allow those of who have been out of the UK for 15 years to vote, a Bill would have to be presented to Parliament and approved before we could vote and there wasn't time to do that! I am positive if all of us Brits currently living outside the U.K had been allowed to vote the result would have been very different. Many people we know are applying for dual citizenship now, we plan to do the same just in case, as even though our residence permits are unlimited they were based on us being EU members. Who knows what happens now.
The racists will be fooled into thinking they are getting concessions on free movement and the remain voters and big business will be happy because the economy will not completely disintegrate.
VDOT - it would be marvellous if a sidestep smoke screen could be engineered, but I don't see how it can be with the eyes of the world on the deal.
Doubly BI - my brother is about to move with his family to Germany. His partner and their two (soon to be three) children are German so it will be easier for them, but my brother is English... I'm not sure if he's thought about dual citizenship - I think I'll mention it to him, thanks for the heads up!
I am positive if all of us Brits currently living outside the U.K had been allowed to vote the result would have been very different.
The way I see it. If you don't want to live in the UK and prefer to live in another country.
And for over 15 years.
Then I reckon that means you're rejecting the UK.
Why should anyone who makes that choice have a vote which affects those who actually live in the UK?
🙂
What about non UK/commonwealth nationals who have lived in the UK for 15+ years?
What about them?
My wife is from New Zealand and has been here for over 25 years. She tells me she's disqualified from voting on matters which concern her home country.
🙂
A non UK/commonwealth national who lives in UK is not allowed to vote in UK referendum. That's my point. If a UK national living abroad does not have the right to vote, surely a non UK national living in UK does.
It stands to reason that voting rights aren't just handed out to anyone.
After all, along with various other protests, a women died by throwing herself in front of a racehorse, before women got the vote.
I might suggest that immigrants wishing to vote on UK matters, submit bank statements with the intention of determining whether or not they are bringing money into the UK, or simply living and working here just to send it all back home.
I can't see how someone filling their boots at our expense does us any good. Though it seems that the infrastructure has become so dependant upon this arrangement, we really have no choice anymore.
Being picky about who has a vote is about as far as we can go.
Money to the UK = vote
Money out of UK = No vote.
Incidentally. My household is one of the few around which brings money into the UK from outside.
🙂
I can say with absolute certainty that if immigrants put themselves on the electoral register they get to vote - although, as I understand it, they're not supposed to.
I'm 100% sure about this as I'm related to one who has done this. When I asked about my knowledge of their voting in UK elections they said "yes, I'm not really supposed to do that". I can only assume there are no checks on entries to the electoral register - if the person's name is suitably "English" sounding.
That being said - they've lived in the UK for longer than they originally lived in their country of birth, and have contributed greatly to UK society through taxes, local politics, charity work, and creating three new people who also pay UK taxes. The individual also voted in the in-out referendum, but does not hold a UK passport - they hold a passport from their Scandinavian country of birth; and, by the way, I have no problem at all with this person voting freely as they see fit - I trust their judgement.
... I think I'm agreeing with 15West...
Frankie Boyle's take on current affairs.
It's all part of the same thing JT.
A whole "anti-establishment" movement too dumb or stubborn to see that Johnson, Gove, Farage and Trump are not revolutionaries but absolute pillars of the very establishment they think they are protesting against.
Instead of questioning what these shysters are in it for, or why they would care about them, they are lapping it up.
I get that Neoliberalism has done a lot of damage, I don't get that Nihilism seems to be the alternative.
Nietzsche saw it coming. apparently but thought that, "at a terrible price (we would) eventually work through nihilism. If we survived the process of destroying all interpretations of the world, we could then perhaps discover the correct course for humankind."
So there you are, all probably going to get much worse before it gets better. Hooray!
.
I'd like to see how Trump, Clinton, Johnson et al, have anything to do with me at all. Why should I care or question them or what they stand for.
I mean,
What gets worse? Your own existence, or your world view?
By what measure?
These people who are mentioned, how much direct influence do they have on your life?
How much have you allowed them to have an influence and impact upon your life in order to make it worse or better?
Once read a line about things to do by the age of 30. One was to stop blaming other people for your own situation.
That I can understand.
I should also mention that disgruntled types are everywhere.
Still thinking about one such type who blasted past me at high speed driving a large blue van, a couple of days back.
I was on a push bike at the time going up a hill.
They seemed to give me enough space but I watched in horror as the cunt barely missed my lad, who was further up the hill by an inch.
That driver clearly didn't give a toss whether he hit him or not.
That's the attitude which is being cultivated. That's caused by knowing you've nothing to lose and certainly nothing to gain.
🙂
I'd like to see how Trump, Clinton, Johnson et al, have anything to do with me at all. Why should I care or question them or what they stand for.
Because it isn't about you Ric. It's about all those people who seem to think they are actually providing an answer to all their grievances - real or imagined.
Ric, Dropping the 'C' bomb is not cool.
Screama - I agree. I just wish that the people who are looking to those supposed leaders of ours would realise the solution to their dilemmas; real or imagined, actually lie within themselves.
VDOT- yes, I get your drift.
Not everyday I'm put in the position where I'm about to see my only child get killed by some guy with an attitude problem.
It was an open road. The guy choose to go as close as he could (to my son) at high speed for whatever reason.
It seems strange to go out on Mountain bikes for more than year with no problems with drivers, but the moment we're on race bikes we appear to have become a target.
That's attitude.
🙂
They're bikes, not high end luxury motor vehicles.
Having said that. The number of cyclists I see taking the piss has to be believed. I see them riding slowly in packs three abreast, with traffic queuing up behind them.
That creates problems elsewhere.
I'd rather not be on the receiving end of it.
Really, the blame if any lies with the item who wouldn't get out of bed, which meant we didn't hit the road until after 10:00am.
Too late.
Too much traffic. And possibly too much traffic which has been pissed off by other cyclists.
Cause and effect. It takes many forms.
🙂
Don't care myself.
I'm supposed to have died 55 years ago.
🙂
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/genetic-map-reveals-how-british-irish-and-european-we-really-are-34920273.html
What is has not mentioned (I think) is that Irish DNA is about 75% Syrian/Iraqi/Iranian because they brought farming to Ireland. With that added it makes the little England thing look even more silly.
Well the English should keep quiet if their history and antics in other people's countries were anything to go by. Does anyone question what the source of the so called Commonwealth is?
🙂
Combining the bike and Europe threads ....
Just been on a nice 2 week hol in Mallorca. Amazing how sporting friendly it is. Cyclist are given priority and a wide berth (notices all over saying leave 1.5m when passing). In return cyclists (many many of them) seemed relaxed and considerate of other road users. Runners everywhere. Excellent trails well marked. Roads and paths well maintained. Super friendly and a nice melting pot of European nationalities.
Admit we went nowhere near the union jacks of Magaluf.
Admit its a holiday island and therefore not the same day to day pressures.
But left me Euro friendly and wishing we could all learn and get closer to Euro "vision"....
Completely separately never got this re England being the home of democracy - running India and Canada by private commercial interests (East India and Hudson Bay Co's) and surpressing local culture and institutions, inventing concentration camps in South Africa .... whereas Greece (first Euro democracy, Switzerland (devolving democracy) and USA (constitution and primacy of law over parliament) seem to have added far more (even with all the faults etc) ....?
Slightly off-topic (but not really) another example of how damaging it can be to get stuck in a single narrative view on the internet where lies and half truths can be believed to the point of mass hysteria...
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/04/marina-joyce-internet-hysteria-witch-hunts-cyberspace
Interestingly, I was reading comments below some content on YouTube yesterday. I'm guessing the user just stopped making videos and moved onto something else but there were numerous posts stating that she had died and - worse - no end of theories about when and how.
Cyberspace is a pretty sick place in many respects...
Cyberspace only involves two of our senses; sight and sound.
Having evolved with more senses than that, is it any wonder we allow our imaginations to run riot.
🙂