Olympics

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  • CindersCinders ✭✭✭

    Hope that pans out for the Paralympics seren, sounds like there are some serious monetary issues.

  • NessieNessie ✭✭✭
    Cake wrote (see)

    Just found this and regardless of where she finish's it's worth thinking about. 

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-37131993

     

    Wow, that's truly inspirational.

     

    Cinders wrote (see)

    Nessie, he's down as a starter on the rio2016 website.  It's on at 1.30am.

    I knew he was racing, it's just all the BBC website articles on the 5k only mentioned Mo. 

    Fantastic race - and amazing achievement for Mo.  Didn't put a foot wrong.  Butchart did fantastically too - 6th overall and a PB - and he's only been a professional athete since January this year.  One to watch, methinks.

  • A lot of yellow trainers in the marathon...

    Nobody mentioned the Trampolining. I have already set mine up in the garden and doing  the backward flips. Tokyo here I come.

  • Watching the men's marathon.

    Loved the story of the Greek marathon runner (NOT the original one!) - a lawyer who ran 2:29 in Rome where, due to lots of big names dropping out, he finished in the top 10. This meant he automatically qualified to run the marathon at the Olympics, provided there were no other qualifiers for your country - so the Greeks selected him...

    But they failed to let him know - he found out he had been selected when he just wondered who was representing Greece and Googled it... to find his name listed against the marathon! Steve Cram's impression of him phoning up the Greek athletics authorities: "errrrmmm... it seems I have been selected to run at the Olympics - is that right?" LOL image

  • popsiderpopsider ✭✭✭
    seren nos wrote (see)

    difference between laura trott and some of the other women is similar...

     You say Bolt was born different...but then so was Semanya...bigger / stronger than the average girl

     

     I agree that it must be difficult to decide in some cases...

    I was going to post the same link that was posted over the page - it sums up exactly why Semenya and co should not be allowed to compete as women.   If CAS does decide to make permanent its 2 year suspension of the rule limiting testosterone in female athletes then god help sport because there is every chance that we will get intersex/transgender athletes dominating lots of events.    

    I'm not even sure there would be anything to stop a transgender sportsperson who was born a man but who lives as a female competing against women without surgery or medication altering their male hormones.   You have to have some test to distinguish who is allowed to compete in female only competition you can't just leave it to the athlete to assign their own gender which seems to be the situation we have here.   

  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭

    Just wondering when was the last time the Olympic marathon finished in the athletics stadium. I'd like to see that happen again. 

    On another note, just wondering if the Olympics is the pinnacle of marathon running. I know it probably is for GB, Aus, US but for the east Africans would they rather win a big city major in a fast time and get a big paycheck? I also wonder if you may get a stronger field in other races with only a limited number from each country in the Olympics.

  • NayanNayan ✭✭✭
    if a man had abnormally high testosterone such that it makes him he is either 'talented' or 'the next stage of human evolution' or some combination of the two.



    If this happens in a woman she is a freak and forced by the IOC - IAAF - whoever to either desist or undergo hormone therapy to bring her testosterone down to arbitrarily imposed limits.



    Whether you agree with this or not, this is clearly discriminatory if you deem the excessive but naturally occurring testosterone as unfairly performance enhancing in women yet not in men. If you were fair about it you'd ask the men to suppress their hormones and level their playing firms too.



    This doesn't happen and that's why the whole block fell apart
  • popsiderpopsider ✭✭✭

    If you read the link it does a good job of explaining why thhat argument isn't relevant. Basically what would you say to a man who decides to live as a woman but does not have surgery or hormone therapy - could Usain Bolt run against women if he decided to become female?   

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Caster Semen - ya?

    Probably!

     

  • It is simple.  If you shave ( face only ) and fart in public then you may line up with the men, otherwise its the women. Natural test levels bare no influence.

    There is no way around it.

  • ZouseZouse ✭✭✭

    Does this mean all the bearded chaps get to compete against the wimminz? 

  • This is one thing that i think should be left to the experts to analyse and work on.....Too much open discussion can lead to remarks that can really hurt those individuals involved.there has not been an easy path and none of it is their fault..do they eliminate all men or women who have a level higher than the norm....maybe they should do away with sexes and have different races for different hormone levels so that equal levels are competing like the boxing

  • senidMsenidM ✭✭✭
    As I said in op, just don't know the answer, but seeing the "girls" having a consolation hug after the 800M and listening to their comments in post race interviews, there is something not right.



    Perhaps in time we will understand more, after all I can remember when Lasse Viren was openly blood-doping, but apart from a general air of bafflement no-one paid much attention - it was his own blood, nothing wrong with that then.



    So maybe when the experts come to a conclusion this will be sorted out - at least it appears to be a genetic condition so is "natural", unlike Kratochvilova's 800M record, where she also had some very male attributes, but that was a different era and may have been the result some serious substance abuse!
  • I thought Lasse viren still denies blood doping ... he said it was going on as it wasnt illegal but he wasnt

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭
    HA77 wrote (see)

    Just wondering when was the last time the Olympic marathon finished in the athletics stadium. I'd like to see that happen again. 

    On another note, just wondering if the Olympics is the pinnacle of marathon running. I know it probably is for GB, Aus, US but for the east Africans would they rather win a big city major in a fast time and get a big paycheck? I also wonder if you may get a stronger field in other races with only a limited number from each country in the Olympics.

    I may be wrong, but I think they do get a  paycheck for the olympics marathon, as it is also classed as a world major.

  • seren nos wrote (see)

    ....maybe they should do away with sexes and have different races for different hormone levels so that equal levels are competing like the boxing

     

    that's a brilliant idea! if organisers want to make an issue out of it then make a proper issue out of it and do it right. That is a really fair suggestion if you have a competition with all natural athletes.

  • Watched the women's triathlon on Saturday - very disappointing from Helen Jenkins.  For me, she should not have been selected over Jodie Stimpson who had consistently put in good performances in prior races and just had a blip at the Gold Coast.  Seemed like a massive waste of an Olympic spot to give it to someone who's form is at best hit and miss, and who on the day didn't appear to get off the bus, depriving a generally very consistent athlete, who had an extremely viable shot at getting a podium place, of her Olympic ambition.  image

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    The BTA has form when it comes to selecting it's favoured darlings.

    Look at how Andrea Whitcombe topped the (Olympic) selection criteria in every category but was by-passed completely when the selectors decided to hold an off the cuff selection race 'out of season', and; having got the result they wanted, choose the team based on that one race.

     

     

  • popsiderpopsider ✭✭✭
    LogicScience wrote (see)
    seren nos wrote (see)

    ....maybe they should do away with sexes and have different races for different hormone levels so that equal levels are competing like the boxing

     

    that's a brilliant idea! if organisers want to make an issue out of it then make a proper issue out of it and do it right. That is a really fair suggestion if you have a competition with all natural athletes.

    You say that as if it's a novel idea but's actually pretty much the solution they were using until CAS ordered it be suspended.    

  • popsider wrote (see)

    You say that as if it's a novel idea but's actually pretty much the solution they were using until CAS ordered it be suspended.    

    Well from a personal point of view I'm not really bothered about fairness in sport to a silly degree. It wouldn't be sport if it was fair. You can't have too strong a fighter doing mortal damage to another of course but as for the rest of them, the best and  strongest individuals and teams rise to the top. That's the point and that's the celebration.

    Creating total fairness though where biochemical measurements where introduced struck me as potentially quieting every argument including the question of doping. It would allow society to totally celebrate and enjoy the full  potential of humanity without stigma. I could imagine the process and mechanisms for managing sport and it appeared glorious.

  • Logic.

    You seriously suggesting some sort of biological measurement be introduced so  we can all up arms to celebrate man kinds full potential in all its glory.?

    Over the years the IOC has already been forced to change this amateurish founded sport due to its advancement and all kinds of mass propaganda, conspiracies. and bribes put in its way.

    Now we should ban certain individuals from competing because "we" judge them not to be biologically acceptable.

    Hey.... its a sport and whatever advantage one might have then its good for them. If you are unfortunate because you are heavier/lighter, have longer/shorter arms/legs have the shakes, piles. cannot swim.  A hippophobia etc etc etc then its just tough shit.

     

     

  • no. I'm seriously saying that anyone who thinks sport should be fair probably isn't very sporty.

    I'm also seriously saying it would be very interesting to be able to accurately measure the biological advantages and disadvantages both natural and enhanced in order to really group winners and losers. Like a very fancy form of the age grading used in running (which I think it's fair to say we here all probably appreciate!)

    It's a thought experiment, I don't think its ever likely to be anything more than science fiction.

  • popsiderpopsider ✭✭✭
    asitis wrote (see)

    Logic.

    You seriously suggesting some sort of biological measurement be introduced so  we can all up arms to celebrate man kinds full potential in all its glory.?

     

    Yes they do that when they have separate categories for men and women.  It's defining who can be classified as a woman that is problematic.    

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    What classifies as a women?

    Just ask the average heterosexual teenage boy, 'Well son, would you shag it'?

    If the answer is in the negative, then it's a bloke.

    Any port in a storm level I know. But in the case of the women's 800m podium, I'd rather drown.

     

  • popsider wrote (see)

    Yes they do that when they have separate categories for men and women.  It's defining who can be classified as a woman that is problematic.    

     

    Therefore why being male or female is not a perfect rule for predicting performance, it requires a much more sophisticated classification if you want to pit like against like in the battle for dominant expression of human potential in particular endeavors. 

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Performance aside, I know what I like looking at, and on that basis I didn't watch the women's 800m since the likely winner; despite winning the aforementioned battle for dominant expression, also happened to look as rough as arseholes.

  • NessieNessie ✭✭✭
    popsider wrote (see)
    seren nos wrote (see)

    difference between laura trott and some of the other women is similar...

     You say Bolt was born different...but then so was Semanya...bigger / stronger than the average girl

     

     I agree that it must be difficult to decide in some cases...

    I was going to post the same link that was posted over the page - it sums up exactly why Semenya and co should not be allowed to compete as women.   If CAS does decide to make permanent its 2 year suspension of the rule limiting testosterone in female athletes then god help sport because there is every chance that we will get intersex/transgender athletes dominating lots of events.    

    I'm not even sure there would be anything to stop a transgender sportsperson who was born a man but who lives as a female competing against women without surgery or medication altering their male hormones.   You have to have some test to distinguish who is allowed to compete in female only competition you can't just leave it to the athlete to assign their own gender which seems to be the situation we have here.   

    I remember Princess Anne being exempted from the "test" because she was a royal - at that time it was a visual inspection of the athlete's equipment.

    Simplistic, but as good as any.  So Bolt couldn't compete in the women's race unless he had surgery.  Semenya couldn't complete in the men's race because she doesn't have dangly bits.

    If she was to be excluded because she had too high testosterone levels, should be excluded because he has more than his fair share of fast-twitch muscles?

    Anti-doping rules mean you can't take drugs to change your hormone levels - but it seems to be being suggested that Semenya should be forced to do just that.

     

    Maybe tall people shouldn't be allowed to do the high jump, because they have an advantage over short-arses like me.

    I do feel for the other athletes in the 800m - they weren't going to win.  I also feel for the other athletes in the men's sprint races for the same reason.  But how many races in the past were won by drugged Eastern Europeans?  Bolt and Semenya aren't taking PEDs - they are just built better for the job than the opposition.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    But Bolt looks well assembled for a bloke. Semenya looks well assembled for winning womens 800m races.

  • Lack of dangly bits..... Well eunuchs will be winning a lot of medals ......... image 

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