Heart Rate Training

Hi guys,

Here's my problem...I would like to be able to do heart rate zone training, however I always find that my heart rate is going through the roof and I can't train in any particular "zone".

I use a TomTom watch with chest strap, and the watch says I can train in 5 different zones called "Easy", "Fat Burn", "Endure", "Speed" and "Sprint". These have arbitrarily chosen heart rate ranges with an even distribution from 95bpm to 190bpm, and the "Sprint" zone is 171-190bpm.

When resting, I have a very low heart rate of ~45bpm, however whenever I run, my heart rate always skyrockets to 175-180bpm regardless of the intensity of the running that I do. My "jogging" pace (aka a perceived comfort level of around 5 out of 10) is around 5m15s/km (8.5min/mi for the imperialists out there) and I will reach this heart rate in 2 or 3 minutes. Obviously this means that I am always training in the "Sprint" zone according to the watch, meaning that this whole mode of training is seemingly inaccessible to me.

I see a lot of advice out there about heart-rate zone training, but unless I'm fundamentally training wrong or over-exerting my heart, I can't see how I am able to achieve this. Any advice for me?

Comments

  • The first thing to do is to find out what your max HR actually is - google MHR test. Once you know that you can set meaningful, personalised zones to train in. 

    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • Also check strap tightness and contacts with the skin. It could be a bad reading. These are more prevalent in the winter when it takes a while to get a good bit of sweat going to make the pads stick or multiple base layers run and generate static.
  • There's something weird if all your runs are within 5bpm range. Either you run at the same pace all the time or the hrm isn't right as muddy says.
  • /members/images/763800/Gallery/HRM.png

    Here's a picture of a run I did the other day with the data taken from Strava and I've overlaid some info boxes onto it. I'm fairly certain there's no problem with the HRM or the contacts with the skin, as the graph increases steadily (albeit quickly) and decreases steadily once the run has completed (not shown here, but the watch does tell you after you've finished the run how much your HR has dropped in the following 1 minute, and gives you an indication of recovery "performance", whether it be "poor", "fair", "good" or "excellent". On this particular run, it scored me as "good" as my HR had dropped 32 bpm in the minute after finishing the activity.

    @Little M.iss Happy - I'm 28 and by most counts of MHR, it would be either 220-age=192 or 214-(0.8xage)=191.6 (two methods advertised on the RW site). I shall endeavour to do a real world test today, but I doubt it'll get over 195. This would indicate that, from the run I have shown you here where Strava says my average HR was 177bpm, I was working at (177/195)*100=90.77% effort for that run. Seems awfully high to me. Even if my MHR was 220 I'd be at 80% effort for a jog.

  • That looks a valid trace Alistair. I'm leaning towards the formula not applying to you then. I know people with max hr of 210 so it could be the case for you.

    What's the maximum you've seen when for example putting in an effort up a hill ?

  • The highest I've seen it spike to is 209, but the trace before that is all over the place, so looks to be a bad connection. It reached 202 once as well but seems to have hit a plateau for 25 seconds, so maybe the HRM is bugging out? I find it hard to believe that my heart rate would be EXACTLY 202 for 25 seconds.

    Having had a flick through my Strava it's only gone over 190 a handful of times, and always at the crest of a hill. I'll try and get that MHR test done today to check.

  • Alastair - the formula doesn't work for me at all. I'm nearly 50 and work off a MHR of 186. It will be interesting to see what you can do in a test. If your MHR isn't that high (and you can probably quite safely add 2-5bpm to whatever you can get it to on your own unless you're throwing up at the end) then it's probably just a case of slowing your runs down and working on your aerobic fitness.

    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • Don't stress too much over your  HR zooming up so quick to start. I have the same thing and was tested at a lab and the doc reassured me that it was just the way my body perceived the need to get up to a fast HR then settle down if needed.
    However he did say to stick to the correct zones that they worked out as I did hit MHR but the end of the test. Money well spent but a very hard workout to do whilst wired up and stuff to machines.

  • I have a similar issue, I use a Garmin 235, I've estimated my MHR by several formulas at around 183 bpm.  On a 70 minute 'slow run' where I felt relatively comfortable and could hold a conversation I averaged around 161 bpm.  When I did some 2.30 minute intervals with 2 min rest where my effort was pretty much max and couldn't speak, my average was around 168bpm.  Reading online the Garmin is a little slow on the uptake for catching up with changes of speed, I saw this using the hand held heart rate monitor on the tread mill, the garmin would still be 160+ shortly into the rest period whereas the treadmill was under 150, after a minute or longer it started to catch up.

    Anyhow, I feel like my heart rate on my slower easier runs is high like the OP, is there a rudimentary test one can do to estimate HR rather than using formulas?

  • Ignore the treadmill measurement, it's trash. I am also sceptical on the accuracy of optical (doesn't read well on my wrist) but a slow adjustment shouldn't be a big issue for steady state aerobic running.



    The really important thing for zone based approaches is an accurate max hr. The formula is for a population average and is only useful as a very rough sanity check. The rudimentary test involves running briskly down a hill and working really hard up back up the hill x 3 and then see what max hr pops out. There is also a treadmill test to exhaustion which requires a helper to crank up speed and incline until you can take no more.
  • Also some heart rate monitors pick up cadence in the first mile or so, which is often why it shows 170-180 ish

  • Am I right in thinking that you are looking for the maximum amount your heart rate spikes at and not the average. For example my average on some intervals I did was about 170 but on the graph on my seventh out of eight the highest point showed 185bpm, that's what I'm looking for isn't it the highest reading on the graph?



    I've seen a couple of workouts that sound interesting. One is 400M hard and

    then 400M all out consecutive, the other is 3 mins hard and 2 minute walk and then same again (both have ten mins warm up). Again I'm assuming both want you to look for the highest rating your heart spikes to?
  • Yes, and to avoid any doubt cross check that peak against how the effort felt for you at the time.
  • Cheers, sorry to the OP for hijacking your thread but thought it was the right place to post as my HR doesn't vary much between an easy run and a hard one.

  • I am right in thinking also though in terms of training in zones that if you have a MRH of 185 it's unlikely your VO2 max training will be at an average rate of 185? I'm guessing around 95% will be where it would be?
  • Yeah that's unlikely. With a max of 180, a 5k pace for me can hit 175. Hard to judge Vo2max workouts with hrm though as you are in a non steady state. I use the monitor in those cases to decide when I'm recovered - e.g. when hr drops below 50% of max.
  • Sorry guys to intercept here, I am a newbie and cant for the life of me find how to post a new thread!

    But like the OP, I too find my HR rockets up when I run, to the 180 mark (I am 39 in June) . When I attempt to lower it to say the 140 mark, i am practically walking!

    Ive now used my polar chest strap together with my TomTom watch, and they both had the same readings! Annoyingly i was trying to train in the steady pace zone on my polar, and it kept telling me to slow down.. repeating in my ear, and unless i walked I would never have got it down.

    When i am cross training in the gym my HR on the cross trainer and bike usually peaks at say 140/150.. just when running it shoots up.

    I am going for a VO2 max test at some point, as it concerns me.

    Although when running I don't feel like I am about to keel over! I just have a red face afterwards for a while?
  • Daz, for what it's worth I use a cross trainer and heart rate runs much lower than when I run. So on the cross trainer I could be working for a heart rate of 100 whereas an easy run would come in at 125 and feel like nothing. I'd avoid comparing those with your running measurements. 
  • Just to back up something SSLHP said ages ago... anyone who sees an unexpected HR something like 170-185 must consider if their HR monitor is picking up the cadence of their footstrike.  For certain, my Forerunner 225 does this quite often in the early part of the run if I've not got the strap tight enough.  And if I leave the strap loose for the entire run, I'll get a HR of about 175 for a long slow run or 180/185 for a VO2 max session....  but that's just because it's mistaking my footstrike for my heart beat.  Generally I find my watch very reliable though, if I take that bit of care.
  • I've used my Tom Tom watch along with my polar strap, both had similar readings give or take a beat. I thought at first it might be my watch, but the strap put that to bed I guess.

    im running the Berlin marathon and don't want to burn out or need a truck load of carbs following me

    ive decided to try the slower approach and see if I can build the hr foundations to lower it? I'm going for a vo2 max test next month too.  But trailing through my strava history I saw last year I got to over 200BPM On a 10k race!!
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