Over 60's training (Part 2)

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  • Graham LGraham L ✭✭✭
    TS, good to hear you're back to normal, proved by the fact you managed the dreaded Hipps Hill without suffering too much. The good steady pace on today's run bodes well. Yes, the cycling's going well and I'm really enjoying it. I know I'd never be competitive at it and it doesn't even cross my mind to try. I'm happy just to ride for the sheer pleasure of it. Anyway, I'm not sure how much scope there would be for joining a club and taking part in, say, a 10 mile time trial at my age and ability. I suspect the cycling scene is very different from running. My bike would be laughed at too I fear, even though it's a good quality hybrid with a hand-built frame. Straight bars are probably a bit of a no-no at a road cycling club!
  • ColumbaColumba ✭✭✭
    John B - your reference to the "nightmare" of getting across London in the rush hour was given an extra edge by the news from the Westminster area. Hope you were nowhere near there.
    I have ticked the "notifications" box on my profile, but still not getting any.
    Graham - good luck with that Easter Sunday race. It will be great if you can get back to racing; you have such an impressive record.
    Did a shorter but slightly faster run this morning. Shall not be running, nor posting on here (or anywhere else) for the next couple of weeks, as I am off "darn sarth" to join Elder Daughter and her family, who are taking me to the French Alps with them. They will be skiing; I emphatically will not, but will be looking after the youngest one (age 2, - not quite old enough to start skiing). I anticipate a few snowmen. And there's a swimming pool, so I've packed my costume.  
  • Graham LGraham L ✭✭✭
    Columba, thanks but I think the days of winning prizes are behind me unless there are any Over-70 categories in a couple of years time. I hope you have a great stay in the French Alps, such a beautiful part of the world. Sounds like you'll have your hands full at times with your granddaughter but I'm sure that will be fun too. I wonder if you're taking your running gear as well as swimming costume. Nothing like running somewhere different and in wonderful scenery.

    I increased my running time to 25 minutes this morning and did 2.8 miles, so it's only a small step to running a 5K park run on Saturday. Can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to that. My last race was back in early November.
  • Well, the thread is still going!
    I haven't been doing much lately, had surgery last year on a meniscus tear, so been taking things quietly except for the odd relapse into off-road stuff.
    Did that 26km Tussock Traverse again - nearly killed myself - it was so hot! Not worried about how long I am out for now, just happy to be taking part.
    Our son did a 62km off-road event, and my husband and I joined up as a team - I did 33km and he did 29km. Needless to say we were out for a very long time, and needed a huge amount of recovery afterwards.
     Did a run 9km this week - but probably should say jogged, but by the look of the redness of my face - I would have looked like I had raced!
    Not sure what else I have on my agenda for this year. My husband and son are doing an off-road half marathon on Saturday, and I, along with my grand daughter are going along for a pleasant day out. Taking our togs just in case it might be warm enough to swim!
  • Columba
    "waves" - enjoy the snow and swimming.

    Graham
    not quite back to normal - normal in my eyes, or brain, is a world removed from 9m/m but at least the bug thing has gone.
    Straight bars and a 6' plus frame do not lend themselves to streamlining :) . You may have to invest in more Lycra!!
    Still good to enjoy both the distance, and the company, as well.
    Hope the parkrun goes well on Saturday. You must be feeling quite confident in your body's ability to resist the race urge!!

    NZC
    well done on finding us!!
    I can see you haven't been doing much  - just a 26K off road, rough terrain bash and another 33K off roader. That's what I call taking it easy as well :D!!!
    Anyway good to see you have recovered from your meniscus surgery and you are still as mad as ever :)

    Swim togs were the last thing on my mind this morning as I looked out onto a white world where a hard overnight frost had transformed the view. Brilliant sun however to offset the nip in the air and I set off to do a mile interval.
    1.3 miles warm up in 12 mins then

    07:34 avHR 144 (74% WHR) and a max of 153 (82%WHR) 
    felt okish so walked a 400m recovery back to the start and then
    07:33 avHR 147 (78% WHR) and a max of 157 (86% WHR)

    and then a slow recovery back home of 1.5 miles in 16 min!!

    The second mile actually felt better than the first as I was a bit more grooved into running at that pace.
    The other good news was that my HR dropped like a stone after finishing each mile getting back to under 100bpm in a minute or so 

  • I was probably aided by a day off yesterday with a trip to Manchester by train.
    Lots of armed police evident in the stations but everyone went on about their business as normal.
    The reporting of the death of McGuiness brought back memories of travelling around during the times of the IRA bombing campaign and other terror threats in Europe. Most people were similarly sanguine back then when faced with far greater threats than today but it's not something I want to see repeated!!
  • Graham LGraham L ✭✭✭
    TS, hopefully my 'race' urge will be well under control of my 'don't want to crock myself again' urge! You're forgetting how skinny I am. On a bike I cut through the air like a knife! Good speed on your miles this morning, although I know you'll be thinking back to a time not so long ago when that would have been your HM pace. Best to resist dwelling too much on past running history I think and I'm trying to do the same. Not easy, I know.

    Christine, good to hear from you. I was only thinking yesterday that I hoped the new format and thread wouldn't prevent people like yourself from posting again who have always kept in touch. So you're still enjoying, if that's the word, your long off-road runs. I reckon if you were in the UK, especially in northern England like me, you'd be really into fell running. You certainly wouldn't have to worry about sun-burn or getting too hot!
  • Yes Torque Steer - still as mad as ever, but just much slower! Liking the fact that no one worries if you walk in those off-road events!
    Well done on the intervals - I only think about doing them!
    Graham - it would be lovely not to think about how hot you are going to be in some of these events. In the 26km one which I did in January, I actually went into a stream to cool off! There were no aid stations and you had to carry what you needed.
    I went to see Don Henley (Eagles) fame the other night - bought the T/shirt - "never look back" - thought it was appropriate.

  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    NZC,
    Wow, that is some progress after knee surgery. From where I am your heat sounds really good. I woke up this morning to greet a heavy snow fall. Again forcing me back on the treadmill. I am going to have to wait for the snow plough to come through before I can walk the dog!

    TS,
    Those intervals look good and you still have all your bits afterwards.

    Graham,
    Good luck with your race

    A squirrel, a small red one, found his way into my attic yesterday so I set my live trap last night and lo and behold, I caught him. I took him for a drive in the car and set him loose in a stand of cedars where he could find shelter from the snow. I know where he is getting in but it will have to wait until the snow has gone before I venture up on the roof.

    Mick

  • I stupidly left my laptop lead at a hotel in Norwich so have been off-line lately.


    NZC - hardly taking it easy after your op.! Seriously impressed with these distances and terrain.

    TS - I was on the tube going through Westminster the day before the terrible events. I just thought how vulnerable 'we' are. The next day we were. I remember some of the IRA bombings which occurred at stations I was travelling to/from. Dark days.

    Mick - nice red squirrel anecdote. None left in Southern England other than (I think) on Brownsea Island off Poole. 


    Graham - how did it go?


    No parkrun for me today (working). Tomorrow I'll do a 10 miler to keep my training partner company as he does his final long (22 miles) run before the Brighton marathon.
  • Graham LGraham L ✭✭✭
    MIck, thanks for the good wishes. You must be so, so tired of the winter.

    John, hope you enjoyed your 10 miles today. Good training.

    I did the parkrun yesterday in quite crisp sunshine. There was virtually no wind on the Newcastle Town Moor. Very rare, believe me, as it's so exposed. I finished in just over 28 minutes, by some distance my slowest ever 5K. But that wasn't the point of course. I felt fine and could hardly feel the groin injury at all. I started carefully at about 10 minute a mile pace and grdually ramped up to 8:30 pace for the last half-mile. I did manage to resist running hard in the last hundred yards or so as others sped up for the line. Very much against my instincts!

    Then later in the day I went on a very enjoyable 27 mile ride on my bike. A lovely Spring day of the sort you dream of in the depths of winter.
  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    John,
    We have lots of squirrels to spare so help yourself. We have lots of different kinds to choose from, a black version of the grey one you already have, flying squirrels that are like red ones but with web underarms and of course red and grey ones.

    Graham,
    Well done on your park run and yes I am dreaming of one of those kinds of days. It didn't happen today though, -4c windy with ice patches to make sure that you are paying attention. I ground out a 10k without managing to fall.

    Not a bad week but trouble getting my mileage up due to the bad weather, this is a very long winter.

    Mick
  • john bateman 6john bateman 6 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Graham: you are back! Well done; the only way is up from now on.


    Mick - yes the Spring has sprung. Graham is spot-on; weather to dream about here.


    I managed my 10 miles (at 9 minute miling; my partner intended 22 but managed 20). My goodness I struggle on longer runs both in the execution and the aftermath. I really do think (and have always thought) I'm not cut-out for long runs and how folk do ultras (a big fashion these days) is completely beyond me.

  • good day

    MIck
    thanks - yes all the bits stayed on afterwards which was reassuring.
    Talking of bits I had the old Mercedes out of the garage and discovered that the stitching to the soft top had rotted through. I could tell that by sitting inside, looking up at the roof and seeing the blindingly bright sun shining through the needle holes!!!
    It's a new roof I think :s
    Well done on the squirrel trapping. We only get greys around here nowadays although the last time we were over in the Lakes I watched two reds happily playing outside the window over breakfast - mine not theirs!!
    I hope the weather changes for you soon - it's dragged on too long now.

    Graham
    well done on your return - and restraining yourself at the finish.  Good news about the groin standing up to it as well
    I hope you found a cafe open on your bike ride :) 

    John
    grim days indeed.  I have been very fortunate. I missed the Holborn bomb blast by about 2 minutes having just turned the corner at Kingsway when it went off behind me. Later, a last minute cancellation by my BinL who I had arranged to meet for a drink, meant I got an earlier train than the one I was booked on and missed the Kings Cross Tube fire.
    Tis better to be borne lucky..........................
    One has to train for  longer distances just as hard as for shorter ones but in a different manner. Indeed the aerobic demands required to run longer mean that training has to be more consistent and focused whereas one can get away on shorter stuff up to a point by relying upon a greater combination of lactate producing levels and not worry too much about overload.

    Beautiful weather here over the weekend. The town played host to the Barbados Reunion Hash on Saturday and it was a super day – perfect sunny weather with just a slightly cool breeze, masses of daffodils out and the early cherry blossom peeking through on the trees. 
    People had travelled from all over the world for it and were all very envious of us living here.  I didn’t tell them it had been snowing four days earlier!!! 
    A couple of Harrogate Hashers had been out in Barbados some years ago and everyone from there keep in touch and meet up once a year. We had an excellent dinner, after a 7 mile hash trail in the afternoon (which included a double ascent of Hipps Hill!!), at a local hotel which had been taken over by the travellers, and the night went on for quite a while - as did the beer :p
    I therefore ran a rather restrained 4 miles on Sunday ........
    Cooler and grey this morning as I got back to the regular 5.25 miles in 49:20 (9:25m/m)
    09:32
    08:57
    09:33
    09:06
    10:22
    01:54

    I guess I am averaging about 30mph just now and only 2 of them are into the lactate threshold zone, all the rest are firmly within recovery levels.
    It's nearly time to start upping that ratio a bit but I will take it very easy................!!


  • Tracey GTracey G ✭✭✭
    Thought I pop in and say Hi. Don't like new website. 


  • TS - I used to work in Holborn; lovely part of London. 30mph! That is some speed. Sounds like a great weekend was had by all. Are you allowed to disclose which town you live in; it sounds great and ripe for colonisation by rich southern bankers looking for a bargain!


    Tracey - agreed.


    After the misery of the long 90 minute slog on Sunday I defaulted yesterday to my preferred training - bombing up and down a slope for 20 minutes on the Downs. Felt great at the end of it. Short and sharp for me whenever possible although I know I need to pay my dues with the occasional slog.
  • Hi Tracey
    good to see you have found us :)
    When is the next marathon????

    John
    It's Harrogate, North Yorkshire - and the house prices are astronomical!!!
    Slight mis-type 30mpw is more like it unfortunately.
    You are not supposed to bomb down the slope - only up ;)
    As I groaningly ascended Hipps HIll for the second time on Saturday I remembered I used to do 10 x 200m hill reps on the steepest part - now that got the HR elevated!
  • TS - Ah Harrogate. Yes I went there once and it was so posh I thought I'd get moved on by the police.
    Yes - you are right: I do descend hills slowly. The trouble is that I do this even when racing! Tried another variation yesterday - lots of shuttle runs in the local park. Got some strange looks from a Labrador. Today I'll try the prom here I can do some measured 1kms.

  • John
    then they let me in and lowered the tone considerably :)
    when I run 400m intervals I do them back and forth on a path across the Stray (a 200 acre green space in the town centre) which gets some very strange looks from folk walking into town as I could pass them twice - or I could when I was quicker!!

    Hard 4.5 miles last evening - and very mild.
    It showed a bit this morning as I did only 4 miles - Garmin ran out of charge despite being on all night

    Well the letter is signed and the ropes are being prepared to cast off from Europe - there must be a job for me somewhere in all these upcoming negotiations............
  • Graham LGraham L ✭✭✭
    Tracey, pleased you've found us. I hope all is well with you and you're running OK.

    TS, I did find a cafe open but had played safe and packed sandwiches and a flask so didn't need it. Noted for future rides though. It looked ideal for cyclists.

    I've done a couple of runs this week so far, 3.2 and 3.8 miles. Both around 8:45 to 9:00 pace. Still getting a slight tightness from time to time but it could just be general muscle soreness after not having run much. 

    The plan is to do another park run on Saturday and quite fancy the idea of a bit of local park run tourism. We're lucky to have quite a few round here within fairly easy travelling distance. So far I've done three of them.
  • Graham: I love a bit of parkrun tourism. The friendliness is a constant but there are 2 major variables:
    a) the courses 
    b) the length of time it takes for the race director to deliver his or her briefing. And to be sure the colder/wetter/windier it is, the longer it seems to take.


    TS: on the Brexit negotiations offer, I'm slightly ahead of you in the queue as in the mid 70s I was a research assistant for a book on the first referendum, but I'll put in a good word for you. This was the highlight of my career; I peaked early. However, I'm more than willing to deploy my talents to further the interests of this great nation and I'm dead cheap. My second claim to expertise is that I lived in Stoke-on-Trent for a while which I believe is known as 'Brexit central'. I can almost hear my phone ringing as I type this......


    Tried to do some fast 1k intervals yesterday. Managed one @ 4.08 which didn't seem that fast (surely I can notch up just one sub 4?) but was more than enough to sap my motivation to do any more and ended up walking home from the seafront, a defeat on the scale of Napoleon's retreat from Moscow.
  • JB: Brilliant!
  • Morning all

    Graham
    once stung............. :)
    Good news on continued progress.

    John
    one of my memories of early childhood was reading an encyclopedia (I was a bookish child) which had an illustration of Napoleon, mounted on a white horse, riding by his soldiers dying in the snow who were cheering him on.

    Well if you were Napoleon after your failed efforts I was one of the soldiers this morning, as after only half a mile of a supposed fast set of mile intervals, I pulled up feeling completely spent and jogged home.
    It felt like a repeat of the mild infection, or whatever it was, from a couple of weeks ago and I now feel completely drained.

    So it looks like Le Grand Armee is knackered until reinforcements arrive :(

    We shall see who gets the call first!!
    I do find it slightly amusing, and exasperating in equal measure, listening to so called experts pontificating on how negotiations should be carried out. I have been in some really tough sets of negotiations and the things I have learned are
    • never go naked to the negotiating table
    • nothing is off the table
    • establish the principle first, then the quantum and finally the cost
    • everyone loses, the object is to lose less than the other party
    I think I can feel a book coming on..................
  • Hi Tarka
    taking the plunge into our own particular ring of bright water??
  • Hi Torque

    Yeah, I've been following the forum for a couple of weeks now. I'm 61, have run all my life but get a bit frustrated at the dearth of articles, books etc about over-60s running, so it's good to hear how and what other people are doing.

    I had a disappointing Oct->mid-Feb with achilles, then calf, then infection, then back niggles, but I'm running ok again now. I run 4x weekly, about 4-4.5 hours a week, mainly off-road, and mostly "nice n easy".

    Read this yesterday from an American site - might be of interest to people?

    http://trailrunnermag.com/training/trail-tips/training-for-older-trail-runners.html

    Good to be part of the group!
  • Tarka
    this thread has been going for years but the recent change in format of the forum has meant that we have had to abandon the old part of the thread and start a new one.  There was lots of excellent stuff on the old thread and I will post a link to it but it's a long read as it covers 12 years or more!!

    https://forums.runnersworld.co.uk/discussion/7853/over-60s-training


    I can emphathise with achilles as I struggle with it currently and have done so in the past, and with back as I had microdiscectomy surgery two+ years ago and have struggled to get back into "proper" running since!!
    I have a fairly large library of articles covering "ageing" runners as well as more general stuff on training so if you need anything in particular just holler and I will try and supply something although at the moment I can't fix myself :(

    4+ hours a week will put you in good standing - whereabouts in the country do you run off road?
  • Thanks for the link, Torque. 4612 pages! That'll while away a few hours over Easter. Crikey, that must have been a bad back to warrant surgery. I live in Bideford, North Devon - rural, with lots of trails, tracks, paths, quiet country lanes etc., including the SW Coastal Path, which I can access in 20 mins of running. Yourself?
  • I should have guessed North Devon from your handle!

    I'm in Harrogate, North Yorkshire.
    I do most of my running on quiet country roads or paved footpaths as my horizontal movement alignment ligaments in knees and ankles are not the strongest due to long standing football/rugby injuries.

    The back was pretty bad, near neural paralysis via pain!!  Much improved now after a major relapse last year.
    I am now 71 and took up running again in my mid -late 30's after the aforesaid injuries finished those sports off and I aspired to mediocrity in road races.
    Relocating, pressure of work, family etc  got in the way later on and I ran purely for enjoyment for many years until I retired the first time nearly 60 and found that I had a bit more time on my hands even after I restarted working as an independent consultant.
    Got fairly fit quite rapidly - a 1:31 HM and 42:20 10K times were reasonable markers and looked forward to kicking on from them but then a succession of reoccurring old injuries and some new ones kept retarding progress.
    My body has been rebuilt by a diligent physio and I was finally back into good training when my back trouble started and curtailed matters quite drastically. Now I'm just glad to run...............
  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    TS,
    Reading your tale of woe is a certain testiment to your tenacious personality, definitely not a quitter.

    Tarkatherotter,
    Welcome, I find it always a motivation to talk to other older runners. We seem to share so many similar issues with our aches and pains and how we fight to come back.
    As an expat of many years you will have to explain your handle to me.

    Finally a warm day, sun shining and 5c, I still did not run in shorts as the windy was blowing off the snow which discouraged such rash behavior.
    I am glad I did not read John and TS' comments before my run as it was a hill workout.  I could well have called it a day after the first hill of 1.2k. Overall happy with 9k in the sunshine despite the constant up and down.

    Mick
  • Graham LGraham L ✭✭✭
    tarka, welcome to the thread. I hope your recent troubles are behind you and you can get some consistent running in. I notice you do mainly off-road running. I don't know Devon particularly well as I live in NE England but I do remember from holidays there that many minor roads are narrow with hedges on both sides and often no verges at all. Definitely not cyclist or runner friendly when motor traffic is about. 

    Trail running's something I've been thinking about recently. Not competitively, just for fun. I've thought about using the many books of local country walks I've got, but running them instead. I'm 68 and have been running for about 8 years. After a long time almost free of problems I've been sidelined for a good part of the last 18 months with various injuries. 

    I looked at the link you provided and noted the article recommended cross-training. I'ce just taken up cycling again after a gap of about 12 years so will be interested to see if it has any benefit for my running. Not easy to assess of course.

    I hope you stick around to let us know about your running. We're a small but friendly bunch.
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