Over 60's training (Part 2)



  • TS - I was about to write that I did a 'hilly 45 minutes' this morning and then I read your account of fell running and decided that my hilly is not the same as your hilly. I recall going for a few days walking in the Lakes in my 20s. Slogging up what seemed to me like  vertical slope I looked up and saw a group of fell runners emerging from the mist. to say I was impressed is a huge understatement. We've nothing to compare with this terrain in the south east. (I also remember going on an A level Geography field-trip a in Shropshire; I could hardly move the next day after a few hours of walking. Southern softie or what?)

    Regarding the parkrun - yes, I noticed that the turn was about 15 metres 'too near'.

    With respect to the Brighton marathon, I've now heard that several runners really suffered with the heat  but that this was nothing when compared to the chaos on Brighton station afterwards! I'm thinking that this must have been just about the last thing anyone needed after running for hours in the boiling hot weather.

    I'm off to Lincoln (work) which I'm looking forward to as

    a) I've heard it's a nice place and I've never been there and

    b) the local brewery bears my surname and it would be churlish not to celebrate this!
  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    Great AG well done.

    You will get there just be patient. I am still waiting after 1 year.

    Sounds like a great trip and I know I would have enjoyed the fells.

    I have put in a couple of runs in downtown Toronto, one of 12k and one of 8k. They were slow as lots of roads to cross. I am trying to sort out what my best routes are and how to avoid the road crossings.
    I have been running along the harbour front of Lake Ontario so lots to see as I shuffle by. I ran in shorts and a tshirt today which is a treat.

  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    Here is my run map and a bigger scale for those who have never been to TO.

  • john bateman 6john bateman 6 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2017
    Mick - have you relocated or just visiting? I know you were trying to sell your house. Have you any events coming up? There must be quite a few around Toronto?
  • MIck
    good news about the shorts!!
    nice to explore new areas even if you have to cross roads. Are road crossings the same as in the USA where one has to wait for the lights?

    I wouldn't say I enjoyed the fells - or at least not getting up onto the top!!!

    southern softies indeed ;)
    My run did not  compare with proper fell running - the only similarity was that it took place on a fell!
    Not too many years ago I did toy with the idea of doing the Bob Graham Round - fortunately my injury problems started to mount up and I was denied the chance
    Enjoy Lincoln - and its beer
  • ColumbaColumba ✭✭✭
    TS - yes thank you, feeling considerably livelier today. Went for a before-breakfast run (run:walk, 3:1), 40 minutes. I love the idea of fell running, but was useless at it even before the knee problem arose. Must content myself with walking up in the hills.

    The weekend after next I shall be watching the VLM, as Youngest Son was lucky enough to get a place. He's been following a training plan faithfully, so should survive... I'll be staying with Middle Son, who has plans for seeing the race from a succession of 4 vantage points.
  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    I'm just visiting, we have two daughters who live here. We are dog sitting while one daughter is off in the Caribbean.  We are staying in her condo downtown with her dog and ours. It is all very yuppie, the dog is at the doggie spa today!
    The other daughter is nearby still at school, it seems that it takes longer to become a vet than it does a brain surgeon.
    We are still trying to sell our house but no luck yet.

    It is just like the US, it is often used in movies as a US city. It is a very nice city, not too busy or polluted but still with lots going on.

    Have fun watching the VLM, I'll be watching from the comfort of my armchair 

  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    There are lots of events around here so I am tempted but due to the constant bad weather in Ottawa I have  had little opportunity to develop any speed. Or what I call speed. My first event is planned for May
  • TS - I remember reading an excellent book (which I gave away) on fell running. The Bob Graham round was discussed in some depth. I think even reading about it gave me nightmares.

    Mick - if you are planning something in May then still time to crank up the training. Good luck with the house sale.

    Columba - I guess that planning to watch the VLM is akin to planning the Normandy Landings. When I ran it I was amazed at the support but to be brutally honest it was all a bit much, especially when a young lad looked at me and yelled "come on Harry Potter!".
  • Graham LGraham L ✭✭✭
    John, I've only spent a day in Lincoln but remember the cathedral, which is one of my favourites, especially the interior. Enjoy the eponymous beer!

    TS, yes, I packed emergency sandwiches which we ate on a bench overlooking the church at Wylam. The cafe was closed - surprising on a beautiful day in April. A couple of other people we saw were also disappointed to find it shut and there was a steady stream of cyclists and walkers passing it, many of whom would surely have been tempted to stop there. I can't remember you mentioning running during your trips to the Lakes before so maybe it was John's suggestion which gave you the idea. We know who to blame! A seven-mile run bodes well for you. Not much of a step up from that to do a longer run. I'm guessing it's speed which would put your back at risk rather than three or four more steady miles?

    Mick, sounds like you're enjoying Toronto and the warm weather. Always nice to run somewhere different, even if routes in cities aren't easy to devise. Good luck with your training for the race in May.

    Columba, pleased you've got your energy back. You must be looking forward to watching the marathon. I bet the atmosphere's great. I always enjoy watching it on the telly.

    Bit of a landmark for me this morning as I ran my regular 5.2 mile route for the first time in exactly four calendar months. That was when I faced the fact that the groin needed a rest to recover. I've only managed just over 50 miles since then. I took it slowly but the legs felt a little less tired so maybe they're gradually getting used to running again
  • quiet day here!!

    dog sitting and dog spas indeed :D
    Enjoy the break

    nightmares indeed....  its only 66 miles and 27,000 feet of ascent - which may be the nightmare bit!!
    I was running up to 20 miles in 3 hours steady at the time and thought it looked doable with a bit of hill training/walking added in. May have had a lucky escape :)

    I always used to run when over in the Lakes until my back problems became too bad.  The chances of someone coming along to help out can be pretty remote over there particularly in the early morning and I just couldn't risk having a major spasm.
    This was my first venture off road for any distance and I did take it very steady - saw no one on the trail at all so I sort of proved my point - and my caution. I suppose it is a measure of my increasing confidence and reduction in pain that I did go out - but not without some sharp tut tutting from Mrs TS.
    I still have a lot of base aerobic strength to build up - I am a long way below where I was and I also need some higher end stuff to increase lactate threshold buffering. My body actually feels more comfortable at higher speeds but maintaining them is another matter!!

    Did a lovely Hash 4 mile run last evening along the river meadows to the east of Ripon - the cathedral was constantly silhouetted against the setting sun although the brisk and cold NW wind meant one did not dwell on sightseeing for too long!!
    Felt quite beat up this morning, probably due to a lack of beer last evening as I was driving, so just trotted round 2.2 miles - it was freezing!!

  • john bateman 6john bateman 6 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2017
    Graham/TS - talking of cathedrals, yes the Lincoln one is stunning. I didn't go in as I simply didn't have the time. Neither did I pack my running kit which is a shame as (talking of hills this time) the cathedral is approached via a road called Steep Hill. And guess what: it is. Very. Quite a battle to walk up it, but I would have liked to run it. I think it must be the only hill in that part of Lincolnshire: the train when through seemingly endless flat and featureless farmland. I think it would do my head in if I lived there - but if I lived there I'd probably have the same effect on Lincolnshire! (Didn't get a pint of Bateman's - the only pub I found was rammed with Lincoln City supporters for their match; I felt like an alien!)

    Will get out today and do a 5 miler. Parkrun this weekend but I'd like to do something a bit more substantial.
  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    More substantial? When I was a youngster such as yourself, I found the half the most enjoyable to train for and the most rewarding.
    Good luck at the weekend.

    4+ months is a long time, i think it demonstrates just how important it is for us to avoid injury.

    Xtrainning day for me. The daughter's  yuppie condo has its own gym of course and I had it to myself.
    I found a better route yesterday so 11k mainly on bicycle paths which were empty, everyone at work.

  • Mick: but a bit too substantial for me. Lucky you with the gym at your disposal. I bet it's a good one too. Do you row at all? If so it's a Concept 2 that you'll be wanting I guess?
  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    Yes I do row and it is on the Concept II. I can still squeeze under 21 mins for 5k but supposedly sub 20 is the benchmark.
    Spent the day with the other daughter at the barn watching her ride her very high maintenance horse in circles. I feel like I am catching a cold so will take a day off and run long tomorrow
  • Mick - that sound lie a very good time. I once dipped under 8 minutes (7:59!) for 2k. I'm not the right shape or size for rowing; very short levers! Hope you shake off the cold.

    Today's Parkrun: 20:38 so 2 seconds improvement on last week. Went off too fast - 4.01 for 1st Km and that was into a stiff breeze. Last week I was 20th; this week with  a faster time 39th - odd that. An Age Category win and 4th out of 410 for Age Grade which was 79:08%. I've got to be pleased with this. I repeated my pre-race coffee/cycle to the start routine. But I still think the course is too short!
  • John
    very well done and very consistent. Hope it isn't short!!
    I am not sure about going off too fast on a 5K race - it is equally hard/harder to try and pull back 5-10 seconds on later K's than it is to hang on.
    Did I see mention of a marathon in your past in an earlier post? You have kept that quiet!!
    Here is a photo of a typical Lakeland hill taken last week

    taken from the top of Kirkstone Pass.
    There is a sign at the bottom - especially for cyclists - calling it The Struggles!!!

    These inhabitants have no difficulty with it however :)

  • Mick
    horses as well as dogs - now that will cost a fortune!!
    That yuppie life is making you soft - back to the backwooods with you
  • John
    football is getting very squeaky bum time!!
    I was in a crowded pub last evening split about 50/50 Newcastle/Leeds supporters. The howls of disbelief/cheers of relief when the Toon were not awarded a penalty shortly after their first goal for the most blatant foul ever were of equal magnitude!!!
  • Hello

    I t has been a while a few issues but all seems good again.
    My 310XT seemed to need replacing ordered a 230 it arrived today but not keen at all. Will take it out tomorrow and go from there but feel it will be going back.
    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • TS - no marathon from me other than watching. Looked again at the result of our parkrun yesterday and a VF 65-69 was around 89% Age Grading. Much respect to her.

    Football issues in the Championship should be resolved very soon in terms of automatic promotion if only Huddersfield would have the decency to lose!

    Gentle run for me today as

    a) might have a crack at a X-C 10K tomorrow;
    b) our two granddaughters are visiting today and I need to conserve energy
  • good day

    nice to hear from you again. last time was when you were tapering for a HM - what happened, did a wheel come off?
    My 410 keeps going back to to normal whenever I start looking at new watches!!

    g'kids are definitely more tiring!!
    89% AG is very good indeed. What time did she run for that?
    Monday should see it sorted one way or another.  Personally I think the refs have been bribed to try and keep Newcastle in the C'ship as they boost gates so much - it can be the only explanation for numerous atrocious decisions this season which have not evened themselves out over time!!

    Cold here this morning with a touch of light sleet in the wind over the Pennines as I struck out for higher ground at first. A bit like a jockey taking a horse up to the tapes at the start of the Grand National  for a look I took myself up to the start of the hill country climb of 3 miles of steady ascent and thought - "not yet" and turned round!!

    Still managed 10.15 miles of steady running in 97:25 min (9:36m/m) with av HR 133 and a max of 151 

    10:49  124  134  eased my way in all uphill
    09:50  132  138  still climbing gently
    09:37  129  135
    09:26  135  138
    09:16  134  139
    08:51  134  140 
    09:23  136  142
    09:30  134  139
    09:47  143  151  Hipps Hill part
    09:23  145  148 - the other bit
    01:26  142  144

    Just over 160m of climb overall so I was quite pleased to finish feeling relatively ok.
    First time into double figures (in miles!!) for a run for a long time (4 years!!) so a milestone of sorts.....
  • Hello Torque,
    I am not sure what happened why I never posted I had a good race I think I guessed at 2.05 with the way training had gone and came in 2.05.41 it rained heavy for first 11 miles:-) but I was pleased with my fitness as usually I struggle from mile 12.

    Mind you since then my achilles played up big time and then tendonitis on my foot which has cleared up the women things(menopause stuff) the latter giving me problems so will take the next 3 months as it comes.
    I have another half in 3 weeks so need a good week with longer runs then 2 weeks with doubles it is not an important half it is local to me so if need be it will be a long run with lots of extra runners;-)
    But want to get back on top of things as my goal is my half in September I managed 1.57 last year so would like to see  myself nearer to 1.50.
    I took both the 310 and the 230 out one strapped to each arm I need to set the data fields similar to 310 as I was relying on the 310 more for the data I needed.I shall take them both out all week and make my mind up I was pleased I have a Mio wristbased HRM and she worked with the 230.It did show my cadence and leg length  and telling me I was working too hard:-(

    I was just going to say I have never seen you run so long in distance well done:-) things are looking good? I would take that pace over 10 miles:-)Big well done 4 years is a long time!!

    6.17 miles for me this morning
    climbing 124 m
    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • john bateman 6john bateman 6 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2017
    TS - that's a cracking effort, despite the 'refusal at the first fence'. Yes, this afternoon should be decisive football-wise. In fact I'll just miss the traffic for the Albion game as I come home from the 10K. The outstanding performance at the parkrun by the VF65-69 was 23:47. That's pretty damn good; and she's a 'local'. If she pitches up at the 10k she might well collect my scalp along the way.

    WP - welcome back after a bit of a break from posting if not from training and competing. It looks as though the HM is your chosen/favourite distance? A 1:50 would be excellent. I guess it's a matter of course selection in hilly Wales? I think the only event I ever did in Wales was a Newport 10K back in the day. It's a shame as I started running around the (gentle) hills south of Carmarthen and I think (as I was in my late 20s) I might have been quite quick - but there weren't many events in the area at the time and we felt pretty remote. Mind you, subsequent research has revealed to me that South Wales is something of a hotbed of running and that standards look pretty high.

    PS just remembered I also did the Cardiff 10K. This finished in the (then) not-quite-completed Millennium Stadium and it was a real thrill for a sporting anorak like me to think that I'd 'competed' at such a venue! (Note to TS if you've had the patience to read this stuff: Rupert Moon the is-he-English-or-is-he-Welsh scrum half was the celebrity at the finish line. Seemed like a very nice bloke.)
  • good day

    that was a good result for the HM and hopefully you will progress on to your target in September.
    I can just recall going from 1:31 in my first GRN HM back in 1981 (!!!) to the second HM a few months later and taking 9 minutes off my time due entirely to consistent training. I had never run over 10 miles before the GNR experience so I am now back to where I was then - just 36 years older!!!
    You sound as if you were well gadgetted up on your last run :)
    Can't really help with the woman's thing - other than to say the men's menopause is, of course, a lot worse ;)
    Thanks for the kind comments on my run - of course I have spent much of the last 4 years sitting on my bum - and not through choice!!

    Yup, that was pretty quick. She may be dominating the AG gradings for a while with times like that.
    Not so much a refusal but commonsense allied tot eh fact that the 3 miles up were going to be into the sleety wind and I was not really dressed for it having been lured out by sunshine dressed only in a tee shirt

    Here's hoping all the results go the right way today. I think every Toon fan has a deal of respect for Chris Hughton so his success will not be begrudged

    I remember Rupert Moon well - the most English of Welsh scrum halves but he did play most of his rugby in Wales.  I think his brother played for England - not sure if they ever played against one another.
    Finishing inside a stadium is always good fun - and a guarantee for a last lap burn up as well.

    Did an easyish 4.6 miles this morning, again in very cool conditions, to pick my car up from my son's house after having a very nice meal there last evening, in 43.45 (9:33m/m) - the last 2.5 miles were all up going steadily uphill!!

    09:32  120  132
    08:42  133  136
    09:16  135  140
    09:59  137  151
    05:59  141  151

    legs weren't too badly mashed up after yesterday's effort but could have done with an easier finish!!

  • John
    I like long distance and will never run a marathon again and dont have the inclination for 20 mile runs any more so half is a nice  middle ground:-)
    No I have a favorite race this will be the third year I shall run it .It really is the highlight of my year Lake Vyrnwy it is scenic and make my heart sing:-) I would rather run in training a hilly route where I am pretty rubbish at uphills than a boring flat course I could run on the seafront but i would rather poke my eyes with a pointy stick:-) and I think this works well when I have a flatter race it seems easier to me.South Wales is a hotbed of good talented runners   infact lots of runners if I start my run later I see lots of folk running the speedy and the not so speedy runners.
    I have also run the Cardiff 10k when we finished in the stadium  and I think the half did as well when there was a full marathon and before Lloyds took over as main sponsor.

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • Torque
    I can understand the consistant training my first Lake V was around 2.12 then last year 1.57 and all it was was the training so hoping I can do better this year...I doubt I will get anywhere near my PB for a half again(1.39.25) but you never know.

    Another great run from you:-)

    8 mile run 2 watches again the 230 is growing on me 
    The new watch has more HR data and a suffer score at least I suffered less today:-)
    201m climbing today.I must check RHR as HR seems high for me and that could explain things.

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • TS - thanks. Yes no-one has a bad word to say about CH - not even the ghastly Joey Barton whose book I picked up a charity shop! Your HM PB is excellent (mine is 1.31).

    WP - I take your point about training on hills. I've really got just one local hill plus a murderous little (20% incline) zig-zag path. This is so hard (I try to do repeats) that it must be doing me some good. But as for racing, I'm a flat, tarmac man through and through. The odd thing is that I've always been relatively good running (and cycling) uphill - but terrible on down-hills. TS never seems to be off the hills; I have to go a bit out of my way to locate mine.

    So onto today's 10K. No idea as yet of finishing position, age category placing or even a confirmed time. I'll give myself 46:40 which I was very pleased with as:
     a) the event started on a track which even with 8 lanes was horribly congested with club runners who wanted to stay en bloc;
    b) we then funnelled into a narrow road;
    c) and then into tracks/trails where it was very hard to overtake; so it took me about 2 miles or more before I got into any kind of natural pace;
    d) there were some (OK - very gentle) hills, steps and a few gates
    e) underfoot conditions were not bad but pretty uneven

    I realise that my X-C capabilities are not good. But I picked off at least 4 of my 'rivals' who at least had the sense to line up nearer the front. Most importantly I knocked a minute off my previous time for the course of 2 years ago.

    And now I can look forward to a nice, flat, prom 5K on Wednesday evening (sorry WP).

  • john bateman 6john bateman 6 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2017
    I know this is a running thread but forgive me for being rather pleased that my football team has just been promoted. I was there when the club was evicted from its old ground and the match was abandoned when elements of the crowd decide to riot. A rags to riches story.
  • good morning

    well done to Brighton - well deserved.
    Truly a rags to riches story - much credit to the chairman who has had a long term vision and patience (and money!!) to put it all into place

    And to you too - that was a quick 10K despite the obstacles of various sorts in your way!!  
    I have never heard of a XC starting on a running track before :)

    BTW my HM PB was 1:15:11 - but that was in another world as a fit 40 year old :(

    It's only with the advent of GPS that one can appreciate how different one run can be from another in terms of climb.  I sometimes think it would be better not knowing!!
    201m of climb would certainly push up your HR particularly if it comes in short sharp bits!
    I do like the variety of ups and downs and they do help to break up the strain of even pacing over longer distances.
    Tonight's run is up in the Dales in, and out, of the Washburn Valley so I suspect I shall get my wish on that aspect..................
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