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Over 60's training (Part 2)
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Torque
1.15 HM That is talent!! we don't realise how good we were till we lose it:-(
Good luck tonight with your run.
10 miles for me on an even hillier parts -so very slow run but it was the distance rather than pace today. this new fangle watch told me I needed 36 hours to recover!
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
Welshpoppy, well done to you too for your HM. I think Columba might have run Lake Vyrnwy and sung its praises? I very much agree with you about hilly running routes. Unfortunately there aren't really any for me from home but I could drive a few miles and take advantage of running in and out of the Tyne Valley. There's a plan!
TS, I was really chuffed to read of your 10+ mile run. Just the sort of think I meant was within your reach after your recent 7 miles. Maybe those hills too will be within reach this summer? I too ran the first GNR in 1981, in 1:38. Never kicked on from there as I had a knee injury and gave up running (too easily!!) until 9 years ago.
Mick, your cycle route run sounded much better. Unusual for you to have a gym to yourself. Nice not to have to wait for apparatus but I bet you missed the company too.
So I finished in 53:16, average pace 8:29. I reckon if I'd run hard I could have done 52 minutes. As my last 10K race was 45 minutes, that's 7 minutes lost as a result of no proper training (and no running at all for several weeks) for 4 months. I'd be very interested to know of others' experiences of having an injury break at a similar age and how much their performance fell off as a result.
TS - agree with WP that your HM time is some PB (even at 40!).
WP - you do love your hills. Could you remind me of which part of Wales you run in (or over)?
Graham - that is still a pretty good 10K time and must have put you in or around the top half of the 2000 field? On your point about comebacks after injury, I don't have any great words of wisdom but I think the key for me has always been to try to do something aerobic if I can't run - and like you that's been on the bike for me. I've always then surprised myself at how quickly I've got back to something approaching good form. (This maybe helped by not putting on any weight in the layoff; indeed I've often lost a few pounds.) Where we differ is that my vanity wouldn't allow me to 'race' unless I was around 90% peak; I just couldn't turn up and see people go past me and then see a disappointing placing/time. (I know what you're thinking and I agree with you!)
This evening it's the 5k prom run. The big variables are:
1. numbers - the prom is very wide but there's going to be a big turnout and I'll need to elbow my way to the front(ish) to avoid the congestion. There's quite a bit of 'club' rivalry on this race plus there'll be folk form the local triathlon club too. I particularly like overtaking these where possible as they call themselves the 'Tuff Fitty'.
2. The wind. Shouldn't be too bad this evening.
I'd love to get nearer 20.00 than 21.00. The long suffering Mrs B has observed that if I spent as much time actually training as I do planning, reviewing and researching then I might actually achieve the times that I aspire to!
in the words of the Joni Mitchell (one of my favourites!) song -
"you don't what you've got 'till it's gone"
Thanks - but unfortunately the competition was fierce back in those days so I was never more than a behind the front pack runner in most races.
I ran the 1:15 in the GNR not too long after the FLM, where I had also PB'd, and felt immortal, particularly as I was running under my milkman's number (long story!!) and had started a long way back from the front line.
It was only afterwards that I discovered that they gave out special commemorative plaques to the first 150 runners and I was 171 so I was a bit miffed - and still am!!
Interesting stat from your watch in terms of recovery time. One of the trickiest things is not too push too hard in training and so compromise recovery before the next training session so it will be interesting to see if you take the device's advice
10 hilly miles is good
Graham
That is still a very decent time over 10K so well done.
I think the trick is to focus on how much training you have done not on what you have missed. That way outcome can be aligned with input.
Ten years ago I ran the Brass Monkey HM in 1:31 off a good training load.
the next year I ran it in 1:36 after having missed 2+ months with achilles injury and only getting one month training in afterwards.
Similarly in the Dewsbury 10K (a flat fast race) I ran 42:42 off pretty much full training and the following year, after missing 6 weeks with a viral infection and only having 1 week of build up, ran 47:50.
The rate of decay, despite having different causes was about the same but I still felt ok with the times when I related them to training load.
So we were together back in 1981
Strangely I took up distance running after my knee and ankle injuries stopped me playing rugby and football and it helped me strengthen the joints up over time.
John
I think Mrs JB has got you taped
Last nights run was delightfully scenic, upland fells, wooded valleys strewn with emerging bluebells, lakeside paths - but bl**dy hard work with about 200m of climb in just over 4 miles over mostly rough ground. However a very nice Rutland ale revived me at the end and, as I got a lift home, there was more than one consumed
This morning was chilly with a light frost as I did 5.25 miles in 48:21 (9:08m/m)
09:25
08:24
08:58
09:03
10:12
02.08
My recorded avHR was 185 and a max of 228 so I rather disregarded the HRM during the run!!
Not sure this website likes me I just had issues with password etc but seems okay now.Read back a little bit and congrats to Brighton and John for running so quick.
The day supporting club mates at the Brighton marathon was a nice day weather wise but far to hot to run in my opinion.
Graham- once the training load increases your times will come down.
My training is going okay at the moment but still need to lose some weight.
Ah the good old days when we could run.
Graham,
I have seen similar declines after injuries in the last 10 years but this last 5 years the recovery has really slowed despite concerted efforts from me to come back. One good thing is that you do come back but you have to do it with a lot of care. I will watch you return to pace with great interest so keep up the progress reports.
Unfortunately my thoughts about catching a cold turn out to be more than that so for the last 5 days I have done nothing but moan and feel sorry for myself. I am now relatively snot free and did an easy 6k from my gym. I was in shorts as it seems to have finally warmed up around home and I tried my summer route by the river. Big mistake as the river is over its banks and in full flood.
Mrs Mick6 has now come down with the cold so it is my turn to be nurse. I guess we were not up to the big city bugs. We took our dog with us and she is fine, the pave streets and fire hydrants did not bother her at all.
Mick
You have led such an interesting life,milkman's number ,missing out on the plaque:-(
Great run and climbing on your run:-)
I think the watch is getting to know me as after today's run he told me I only needed 24 hours rest....LOL
It also gives VO2Max and race predictor so far it predicted a better 10k time but today the half marathon was faster again i guess it is getting to know me:-)
6.5 miles this morning 124m climbing easing back as Friday I want 12-14 miles.
John: I live on the outskirts of Swansea near the Gower and near to Llanelli,Llanelli which is strangely flat for running so I usually run(once a week) on the coastal path as 2 of the half marathons run along there. strangely my pace is so much faster when running in Llanelli:-)
Graham: A great time for your 10k well done:-)
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
Ray - good to hear that training is OK. Do you diet to lose extra ballast or rely on training alone?
Mick - at least the dog is happy!
So my 5k was nearer 21 than 20 (20:47) - in fact exactly the same time as last year, There's progress! A tad disappointing but I went out a bit too quickly (10:04 at the turn) and fell foul of the stiff wind on the way home. However, on the bright side I edged out a few guys with whom I'd had previous ding-dong battles; I finished with some decent runners around me; and Mrs JB re-assured me that I was the first 'old git'. So mustn't grumble.
Rest day today and a visit to Reading (famous for its biscuits) for work.
WP-not sure if you have the same Garmin as me,i have the 235 which i have had for about 3 weeks.Not greatly impressed with this watch as the optical HR is just not accurate,also i am not convinced with the Vo2 max prediction,plus the race predictor is just way out with estimated times which are way to fast.That said as a running watch the GPS is quick and it works okay for all training aspects.That said i realise these predictions are just estimates but i don't think Garmin should be selling a watch with such dodgy HR readings.
it was very kind of your to pass the bug onto Mrs M
There was a spectacular photo in the paper this morning of a huge iceberg off the Newfoundland coast
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/19/ferryland-iceberg-newfoundland-canada
looks like it is coming ashore!!!
John
good result - you have held Ol' Father Time at bay for another year
and you had spectator support as well!!
Some years ago I was involved in a project at the biscuit factory shortly after they had been taken over by a French company. I had to swot up the French for structural steel, concrete, cladding, foundations etc - forgotten them all now!!
Ray
good to hear your views on the 235. I only want the device to be accurate for distance, time and HR - everything else is unnecessary. Your experience on the HR side does not encourage me to part with hard earned cash!!
I have managed to lose 1/2 stone quite easily but it is becoming more difficult to get further down whilst my mileage is hovering around 30 mpw so I reckon I still win over anyone on the weight/speed ratio
Easy 5.25 miles this morning in more pleasant temperatures. Legs still recovering from the working over the y ha off road on Tuesday night as I ran 49:57 (9:31m/m) with avHR132 (67% WHR) and a max of 148
09:49 121 134
08:51 130 139
09:02 136 143
09:23 132 140
10:49 138 148
02:01 135 148
yesterday's run was only 25 secs/mile faster but felt much harder so maybe I am runnig my recovery runs too fast, or my faster runs too slow?!!
HRM worked perfectly perhaps because the higher temperatures made me sweaty quicker!!
Off to Southampton tomorrow so a no run day - I wonder if my wagtail will be waiting for me.....................?
Llanelli millenium coastal path is great for running infact the next race is at festival fields down to Bury Port and back then towards llanelli half way and back.
Ray
I have the 230 with out the wrist HRM as I had heard the optics HRM was not good, in the 220/225 they used mio technology and I have a mio wrist HRM which is great and it works with the 230.I had a 310xt which it worked with I loved the 310xt and the 230 is not a patch on it .I find the numbers too small I managed to get it set up like the 310 found I could have 4 data fields on 2 rolling screens and HR details but on the 310 I can see my av pace and actual pace and it is in my face I can see it clear it is so small it is not clear okay no bother in training but when I race it is important so I can see if I am on track.So I may wear 310 for races which defeats the purpose of new watch.I have allowed myself 12 days to fall in love or it goes back.
I think things like VO2 max is an estimation along with race predictor although I have only had mine watch 5 days the race predictor is pretty close I think it will take watch a good 4-6 weeks to get to know me especially recovery time after today's run it said 32 hours??
But it does lock on to satelites very quickly and the contacts do not burn my skin unlike the 310(I would uses a wrist band under it) I just wish the numbers were larger!
6.5 miles again today same speed as yesterday
Tomorrow I am aiming for 12-14 miles....eek
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
My experience with the 235 has been positive overall but the HRM is definitely weak at best. I personally can live with some of the flakiness as it is obvious when it is not working properly.
The wrist band has to be tight not just snug or you will get lots of spikes.
I have a lot of hair on my wrists and a strong residual tan but it seems to work consistently, just going weird every now and then but not enough to make it useless.
As WelshP pointed out it is the first generation of Garmin optical HRM technology and is definitely no where near as good as Mio.
There is a lot of discussion on the various forums about this technology and the consensus seems to be consistent in that the technology is not there yet.
If you want consistent accuracy you will need a chest strap.
WelshP,
The VO2 estimate used by Garmin is based on work done by Firstbeat Technologies. It is an empirical technique developed by comparing a lot of HR profiles at a given pace with lab VO2 max measurements. It requires a lot of reliable and sustained HR data to reach an accurate prediction. You can see from their published papers that it does work well but you need good HR data.
It took mine a while to reach some kind of reasonableness, that is a lot of runs.
TS,
It is iceberg season so fairly common to see them around but unusual to see such a large one aground.
MIck
My HR profile was a bit spikey so the max numbers are not very reliable.
My gait is slowly sorting itself out after my prolonged period of injury / recovery cycles. My stridelength is gradually increase with a slight drop of of my average cadence and I am feeling smoother.
Mick
Thank you for your fab input makes me feel a lot better.Do you like it as much as your old watch?
Good run today I like your data page:-)
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
The GPS synching and tracking is much improved, as is the battery life. The display contrast is poor and I find it more difficult to read on the run than my old 405, but that is not a big deal for me.
I like the vibrate alerts which occur at each lap and the display changes to white on black and bigger type. This let's me read the pace easily at each lap point.
A lot of the new features are fun but not really key.
Cadence is built in which removes a device that I was wearing before which is nice.
For me, the key is no hassle to use with good pace and tracking results.
The 235 is a step forward.
I would recommend it but with the proviso that you use it with a chest strap if you want accurate HR data.
I write my own software to manipulate the data and garmin have changed formats and how they process certain events which is very irritating.
Another irritating thing about garmin is that they are not interested in backward compatibility. I recently found a backup file from 2004 with 18 months of my 201 xml data.
I wanted to add this to my current log but all the current garmin websites and software would not accept this old format.
I ended up having to write my own software to convert it to today's format. The lesson here is if you are relying on garmin to maintain your ongoing running records and database you may want to think again.
I now have my own running database that goes from 2004 to today all in one place and all accessible from one app.
Mick
TS-pretty much same as you on the things I want from a watch so will post my heart rate readings on each run.
WP-all the best for the 12/14 run tomorrow.
Run tonight was just over 6miles.
mile pace avhr maxhr
1 8:51 120 132
2 7:14 132 139
3 7:45 134 142
4 8:19 135 146
5 8:03 140 154
6 8:46 130 142
Welsh Poppy - I might watch Lake Vyrnwy, but won't be running it this year. Working my way gradually back; up to about 5 miles at present. John B, - yes, though Wales is mostly hilly there are some flat bits and Lake Vyrnwy is one of them; there's a road that sticks close to the lake edge, all the way round, and that is where the race is run. There's a little bit of uphill just near the end. I envy you your coastal path, Poppy; I love running by the sea.
Ray - summer is a good time to lose weight; you can live on salads and fresh fruit.
Off to London tomorrow; Youngest Son is running in the marathon, and there are family plans to cheer him on. I shall be staying with Middle Son in Greenwich; he has just sent me a text message saying bring my running things and we can do a parkrun (don't know which one) so pleased about that.
WP - I take your point on the relative merits of Llansteffan vs Ferryside but I used to flip this by thinking that whereas we could look across at them (with their lovely castle) all they could see was our rather dreary profile!
Rest day for me today.
I shall be watching a friend who is running it on the live tracker on Sunday:-)
Body was tired so 4 miles this morning the long run is scheduled for tomorrow instead.
My race predictor pretty spot on today and good to see me creep up with my VO2 Max:-)
John: I do take your point and that is one hubby always states:-)
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
Very sad news footballer Ugo Ehiogu died so suddenly and so young.
Done a long run today as my grandson is thirteen tomorrow so the whole day will revolve around him.Went with two runners who are doing the Edinburgh marathon,they were going to run 20miles and I was to cut off about 12 but ended up doing 13miles.
Mile Pace AVHR MAXHR
1 9:00 119 122
2 8:51 119 122
3 9:06 126 137
4 8:50 132 138
5 8:36 134 183
6 8:44 178 186
7 8:24 176 187
8 8:39 178 185
9 8:04 180 185
10 8:33 172 186
11 8:19 176 182
12 9:16 160 182
13 9:12 134 154
Tried out a new parkrun today: 'Bevendean Down' just outside Brighton. You know it's going to be tough when only 32 runners turn up while the other local parkruns will be some way north of 400! And tough it was, resulting in a 23:35 for me. However, this gave me 1st place in the Age Grading terms so pleased with this.
John
southern softies only turning out for the flat parkruns
well done on the AG placing - and for tackling some hills
Ray
what happened after mile 5 - did someone drop a 50kg rucksack on your back?
Your avHR went from low 130's to over 170!!
I suspect that you had another HRM malfunction - they are becoming too common across a whole range of devices nowadays and once one starts to distrust the data it becomes counter productive.
I had a hard day clearing out the garage in preparation for the building works and it included moving lots of large format limestone tiles to a new home in the shed 20m away.
Consequently my legs felt a bit jaded when I went out on Sunday morning in beautiful conditions - bright, strong sun, light cooling breeze and repeated my 10.1 mile run of last Sunday in 95:19 (9:26m/m)
10:15
09:49
09:35
09:40
09:12
08:45
09:06
09:22
09:41
08:53
00:53
My HR data looked like Ray's - first 4 miles ok and then avHR of 180 so not a lot of help there!!
however it was 2 mins faster than last week which I ws quite pleased with as my legs felt a bit battered throughout.
Easy recovery run this morning - 5.25 miles in 51:44 (9:58m/m) with perfect HR data of avHR 130 and a max of 151
09:54 121 136
09:20 127 135
09:48 130 137
09:46 129 136
11:07 135 151
01:50 125 130
deliberately kept my HR down even on Hipps Hill
Some good results in the London marathon - Josh Griffiths proved Welshpoppy's view that there were some good runners in South Wales and particularly pleased to see David Weir win the wheelchair race after his traumatic 2016 and Olympics
Yes I very pleased to see Josh from my old club run so well!
I was very pleased for David Weir:-)
But I was saddened that Paula's womens record in a marathon went:-(
I was ill Saturday so no run so Yesterday was 6.5 miles about 2 minutes faster than in the week and as I can not see screen so well it is all to feel so very happy with that.
Today I had a disturbed night so very groggy and tired but out I went and did 11.1 undulating miles shame my HRM died on me half way through run so that is charging as I type! It was slow but just looking at distance I did climb 275m
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
WP that's one hell of a run when feeling groggy!
TS - I actually ran some hills today too! No data - just did it by how hard it felt. It felt hard, and my heart rate did leap at one point when I had an encounter with an adder. Well, I thought it was an adder and it certainly didn't appreciate my presence (it sort of went for me) but I now think it was just a grass-snake on steroids.
Missed the marathon because of my grandsons birthday party and various things.Managed to make the pub in the evening for post marathon drinks with the club.This is for all runners who have run a recent marathon Paris/Rotterdam/Boston/Tokyo/Brighton/London so our runners have been busy.The pub gives those who show their medals a free drink so that's quite good.A good humoured night with tales of woe and never again all makes for a good atmosphere.
TS-Heart rate readings are of the scale,but can't be bothered with it anymore.Good mileage over two days as its hard work clearing garages and the like up.
WP-Good run as you were not feeling great.
John-You can always tell a adder if you ask it a maths question.
You may remember my mentioning a club runner who ran London last year on the back of a fast parkrun the previous day. Well, he was at it again and ran a PB, or very near, at a parkrun on Saturday before travelling down for the marathon. He ran a good time but says he struggled in the last few miles. Surely he would have slowed less if he hadn't run hard the previous day, even if it was 5 kms?
Talking of parkruns, someone at my local one at Newcastle reached a landmark on Saturday as she clocked up her 200th consecutive run there. Amazing but apparently there's someone who runs Brighton parkrun who achieved well over 300 consecutive runs. Don't know if John knows him?