Over 60's training (Part 2)

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  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    Mick, I tip my hat to those 5K & 10K times - 17:20 & 34:58 my best - well behind your low 16's & 32:50    
     
    your weather forecast makes our imminent "Storm Dennis" seem very tame
     
    Dave
  • Torque SteerTorque Steer ✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    Welshpoppy
    Stop it!!!
    the past is a foreign country when it comes to training :/

    I am with Dave (although even more so in my case :/) in that I could devote more time to training than I do but wouldn't be capable of doing it - but at least we can all still do something and in your case, and Dave's, quite a lot of something :)

    Mick
    you should get a world map and then colour in the countries in which you have run in pink - a sort of Mick's Empire map of running!
    that sounds seriously severe stuff coming your way - nice to come back to after Aruba.
    I never ran races over shorter distances other than strange events like the Blaydon Races which was 5.6 miles long and assorted lunchtime handicap races over shorter distances. The focus in events was all about HM and marathons but of course we didn't have to cope with your summer temperature extremes

    Lovely bright sunny morning here - birds singing, sheep baaing gently as I set off on my usual 4 miles in 40:22 feeling a bit more tired than previous runs but okish.

    Just as I reached home the breeze started to pick up and now it is turning into another full blown gale with rain beginning to lash down

    Rest day tomorrow :)
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    TS - lived up to your quote "quite a lot of something" today  . . .   I've mentioned my marathon "mentee" previously - she had a 17 scheduled this weekend, but in view of the weather forecast, she decided to get it done this evening . . .  and, as I'm committed to assisting, I accompanied her.  (I should say that, if there is a group run happening, I have the caveat of not "needing" to accompany , but a Friday teatime . . . well, would have been a solo outing for J ) .  Anyway, 17 done - and J , I'm so happy to say, remained strong throughout - I had a concern, in that she did 16 last Saturday, so this was unknown territory in terms of "were the legs up to it so soon" - but she was the one encouraging me, as my legs had had enough at 15, but we finished it off !!  
    Coffee and scone with her and her chap, then home for very welcome hot bath and food - and currently enjoying my 2nd (and final, this evening) Peroni.  
    I'm pleased to have accomplished this, but I do feel that subsequent runs, if I'm required, I'll join after J has done a few miles to begin with - it did feel a mile (or two) too far this evening     :)  
     
    Dave
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    ps - TS - definitely rest day here tomorrow too !!      
  • Apologies for absence! Haven't posted on here for a while as not much to report! Back has literally been a pain although it is hopefully on the mend. parkran this morning: 25:09 which was a harder effort than 5 weeks ago when I ran 23:41 on the same course. 

    Was only slightly jealous of Mick's holiday as I was in Seville for a few days where the mercury managed to hit 27. The back was so much better in the warmth; by the time I had sat on the plane for an hour or so it was back to the normal level of discomfort. I also note a very expensive dog!

    Birch: I am struggling to manage 17 miles a week! Despite my back I have managed a short run every day but it doesn't add up to much!

    TS: if you are going to get round GNR, or better than get round, I think you need to slow down and gradually build up the distance once, or preferably twice, a week. I ran it once when I was just over 40 and I wouldn't do it again; far too busy and I started far too far back. 41 minutes for the first 11k and 41 minutes for the second 10k! Was still weaving round clowns and other fancy dress runners at around 4 miles. 

    And forget times: WAVA is all that matters!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Blimey Dave!! no wonder you are resting today I may need to go and have a lie down that is a lot of miles!Well done on being a champion.

    Torque:

    Absolutely we can still run and that is what it is all about thank goodness the past is that the past.
    Some nice miles:-)

    Mick:I hope all is okay your end that is some nasty weather for you!!

    Ale:

    Well done on park run I am sure some good week's training will get you back to 5 weeks times.Good news back is easing.
    I never look at WAVA andI guess I should.

    After not running since Tuesday finally I felt able to run a walk first to village for Mr P. milk then back home and I thought lets do this even if a mile...4.45 miles and a nice faster run Av pace 10:19 and all before Dennis arrives but nothing as yet , heavy rain but what is new this is Wales :)
    Lets home Dennis lets me out to run tomorrow as well.




    ALF: Always a little further
    Miles makes smiles.
    Progression
  • Dave
    not surprised you were knackered - a couple of weeks of not very much, a jump up to 9 miles and  then 17 out of the bag is enough to do anyone in.  I think more than 2 Peroni were called for - purely for re-hydration purposes of course :)
    I had learned from the previous years marathon and took it easy at the start until the crowds thinned out a bit after a couple of miles and then stepped it up - in fact I ran what was then a HM PB  in the first half and didn't really slow until the last couple of miles but managed as print finish for the cameras - posing moi?? never.
    In fact I need to find that photo...............

    Welshpoppy
    please you are over the worst. you don't want to be going down with something with the Coronivirus around !!

    alehouse
    How was Seville? never been and quiet fancy it
    Well done on the parkrun - you are still managing to keep the times respectable despite your back so your base level of fitness is still there

    I know exactly what you mean about the GNR!  I went back 12 years a go to do it on the back of running some tough 12+ miles in training expecting to run 1:30.  ran 1:36 and wasted too much energy in the first 5 miles trying to get round people who were walking from the start despite being in the sub 1:30 pens >:)
    Found it all very dispiriting particularly as when I had run it in my "prime" I was out and free near the front.  Vowed not to do it again but the chance to bookend my running with a start and end GNR was the incentive.

    You forget that I have to overcome my thyroid deficiency and I have to make it work in order to get some energy production.
    I am currently running right in my most efficient aerobic zone by heart rate and indeed I take my running pace by staying at less than 70% WHR in order to do exactly that.

    This morning's run was a case in point - 5.15 miles in 51:47 (10:03m/m) with avHR 133 (65% WHR) and a max of 150 only briefly as I attacked the final hill home.  Cadence was 178 so ultra efficient despite climbing 68m overall and a gusty wind to contend with

    10:17   125  135 big uphill start
    09:44   130  142 mostly downhill
    10:00   134  140 levelish
    10:01   135  141 ditto
    10:18   141  146 all uphill
    01:26   146  150  uphill "sprint" for home

    I was actually quite pleased with that and the fact that I could hold the pace over the last mile uphill, with some heavy breathing, was quite encouraging
  • You're right, TS, hadn't taken the thyroid issues into consideration. You obviously know how to manage it and what need to be done over the coming months. Plenty of time to build up gradually.

    And I would thoroughly recommend Seville for a long weekend or Monday to Friday, say. But not in the summer: far too hot, often in the 40s. Day one I went on a "free" walking tour of the city (you donate to the guide, say 10 euros per person). Helped get my bearings. Excellent running down by the river (both sides) and saw lots of runners down there. I chose a hotel within a couple of hundred metres of the river for that reason but to be honest the city is very compact and is almost flat so nowhere in the old part of town is very far from anywhere else. Lots of architectural/historical sights. Cadiz is worth a visit also and being on the coast is cooler in the summer, perhaps 10 degrees less. Daughter was at uni there and loved it, and has been back since. I hear good things about Seville's half marathon course: flat and fast, I understand. 

    No ill effects from yesterday's parkrun in that the back is as good or bad as it was before. 

    Back to the cricket.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • WelshpoppyWelshpoppy ✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    Torque:

    Nice running this morning 68m climbing  not bad at all:-) I also start at bottom of a hill.


    For me 6.2 miles and a good pace for the hills 117m climbing 10.38 which is the fastest I have run route for maybe 4 months.Av hr is up usually around 135 today 145.

    Ale: You snuck in as typing glad back is okay and Seville sounds a lovely place to run but maybe too warm for me.
    ALF: Always a little further
    Miles makes smiles.
    Progression
  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    TS,
    I suspect the half issue for you will be not fading, so your long runs and tempos will likely be key. Using the standard predict algorithm you need a 26 min 5k to have any hope of breaking 2 hours in the half. Do you think you have that in your legs right now?
    I have always found that I needed to get the basic speed into my legs before I stretched out the tempo runs.

    Alehouse,
    Did you visit any of the area around Seville? I have been to Spain numerous times but never that area and my wife is keen to see Spain as she has never been. We would probably do the rent a villa and car thing.
    That is still good running especially with a moaning back.

    WP,
    The bad weather doesn't seem to stop you getting in some quality runs. I was back on the treadmill yesterday. 3 x 1k at a 5:40 pace. The weather here as eased off so we are back to more reasonable temperatures -5c ish. Hopefully I will be able to get outside tomorrow.

    I am trying to get my body use to a 28 min 5k pace, so when I am on the treadmill I have been doing at least 1ks at that pace. It feels good, no redlining, but I need some outside runs at a faster pace if I am going to beat the daughter.
    My race is early April so I need to up my game soon.

    Mick
  • Mick, I have been to Jerez (sherry tasting was particularly good and nothing like the sherry one gets in the UK!). Not far from Cadiz and on the way from Seville to Cadiz. Not too far from Gibraltar nor popping over the border to Faro. As your wife hasn't been to Spain Madrid, Barcelona and Granada must beckon! I particularly like the Bilbao area which is, of course, at the other end of the country, and is almost a different country speaking Basque. My daughter is "collecting" all the different Spanish languages such as Basque and Catalan and is fairly fluent in five or six! And she would be a far better person to suggest places to visit or base oneself at. She teaches Spanish, by the way. And is currently on holiday in Amsterdam!


    Re running, in general I find my speed increases when I run longer or hillier rather than purely through speed work. Longer runs of an hour or more help drop the weight and this helps with speed, of course, and confidence which can't be underestimated. Unfortunately I am not in a position to do any runs that include hills due to my back, and not going to risk speedwork either. And the longest I have run in 6 weeks is 38 minutes! Time to re-build that, I hope. Once I am comfortable at an hour I hope to introduce some fartlek, back permitting. 

    Great game, indeed series, of cricket! Not so great in the second half for Newcastle though!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    Mick - that's a good treddie session . . .

    WP - nice you are back to it - and with a 10K today to beat the weather (which looked, on the news, very  challenging in your area)  . . . .   
     
    TS - good 5+ - and pleasing you were able to "attack" the hill . . .   
     
    alehouse -  good parkrunning - despite the slower time - at least you were able to give it some effort, after the back issues . . .     
     
    took the intended rest day yesterday, with a 3 mile jog this afternoon to close the week out on 37.5 miles.  
     
    Dave
  • Welshpoppy
    good session despite the wind and rain - and hills!!
    I live half way up one and so I have the option of a downhill or uphill start but I have always done the latter so as to get the HR up asap


    alehouse
    thanks for heads up on Seville - we will look at it for early next year
    Hope your daughter's aptitude for Spanish has rubbed off on you :)

    I wouldn't say I know what I am doing with my training  - as far as I know I am the only over 70 trying to run competitively with a major thyroid problem (and other sundry issues)  so it is very much a suck and see approach and some homespun physiological theory from me as how to approach it.

    Basically that approach is to maximise the distance I can run within my aerobic range so as not to overstress the thyroid production that my body can manage to chug out and put me into deficit - hence the slow runs and trying to extend my range

    You should have seen a few sixes hit yesterday - big totals from both teams

    It looked like Newcastle were going to do one of their usual 0-1 wins after the first half but two silly errors and game over.

    Mick
    I think those algorithms work better in reverse insofar that if you can run a HM in the prescribed time one can easily step down to a shorter distance as the aerobic efficiency is fully developed and it is relatively easy to add some high end efficiency but it is far harder and takes longer to add aerobic development to basic speed.
    I suspect I could still step out and run a sub 7 m/m - recovering from it would be another matter as my thyroid levels would be all over the place for days afterwards.

    Dave
    well done on on your rest day and weekly total - particularly as half of it was in one run!!!

    Easyish 4 miles this morning, despite very gusty winds, in 40:30 (10:09m/m) with avHR only 131 and a max of 146 on the end hill - aerobic development continuing :)


  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    Alehouse,
    Yes I can see us taking in Spain for a autumn holiday but not this year as we will be moving house. We hope to sign the contract next week.

    TS,
    I guess we are all different. I have always struggled to hold on to my speed. When I trained for a marathon I would always lose my edge in the 10k.
    Things are even worse now as I find it so easy to relax and just cruise a longer distance but just cannot hang on to any speed. I find it very hard now to do both speed and distance work at the same time, for me it is one or the other. I also prefer speed training to endurance especially with the weather we get here.

    Inside on the treadmill again. 2k warm up, 3k tempo at a 9:39/mile pace, 1.2k cool down. 
    Heart rate profile was better.

    Despite being on the treadmill no over heating and no red zone. I think I am ready for some 1k repeats with an 8 in front. Also as soon as the edge comes off the weather it will be time for some hills.

    Mick




  • Blimey if you blink on this thread you miss so much :)

    Can I give a collective well done :) with special mention to Dave!!

    I slept in this morning so all behind but ran 6.1 miles this time a flatter route 98m climbing and a faster run 10.21 av pace,hr still 145.
    So the thinking is I can build up again especially as Half marathon two weeks Sunday! I was going to defer but will use it as a training run  and hope to get close to 2 hours but not run a half since 2017.......I may stick to 10 mile races:-)

    Reading between the lines different plans suit different folk not sure where I put myself at the moment but I like endurance training I think mind you I found a  Steph Bruce half marathon plan and her long runs go up to 16 miles!.
    ALF: Always a little further
    Miles makes smiles.
    Progression
  • No, TS, my daughter's Spanish ability has not rubbed off on me! 

    Longest run since Jan 13th this morning, with 7.5k in 45:29, so around 6 minutes per km off road but largely on gravel or tarmac. Found the last ten minutes a trudge but managed to keep the pace up. Remarkably dry given the storms: the river had gone down about 15 feet overnight so somebody must be doing a good job somewhere. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • alehouse
    I think the gale force winds have pushed all the water away - although having said that it is raining here now!!
    How was your back after the longer run?  I virtually abandoned running off road after my back op as I deemed the risk of a slip and straining something there too high.
    Pity about the Spanish :)

    Welshpoppy
    if you like endurance training you need to do some Tempo work!! - One tends to not do the stuff that is harder/more uncomfortable to do and so it becomes self defeating as the weakness never gets improved
    6+ mile hilly runs are good preparation for a HM :)
    I always used to over distance train for HM - its the endurance that is important

    Mick
    It's not so much pure speed as speed endurance that one needs for anything above 5K. One's best HM mile times would be at least 15% off one's best mile times which in running terms is a lot of latitude for recovery given that even a mile already involves a considerable amount of high end aerobic development

    your HR progression on the treddie is nice and progressive - looking good for the family showdown

    rain lashing down just now - I was going to jog to the Hash tonight but I am having second thoughts about that!!
  • Cold and rainy for a good part of the day on this side of the Pennines, TS! Still windy which is quickly drying up the puddles.
    Back was fine after the run. My "off-road" is largely on gravel river bank paths so is nigh on the perfect surface: a little bit of give whilst not having the dangers of real off-road!
    Enjoy the hash: am sure the rain will blow over before the start time.
    This evening will see refreshment after my Tuesday routine of short run and long stretch!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    one of those (thankfully temporarily) demoralising runs last evening - 3.5 miles, but legs grumpy (to match my mood, set after 0.25 mile, where an illegal left turn meant the driver (of an Uber cab (!) nearly took me out, as I proceeded on Green Man )  . .  
    better this morning, as I jogged 2.5 to my friend's, then did 6 with her (inc 4.5 at her tempo effort). Coffee to conclude proceedings, then she kindly gave me a lift home :) 
     
    nice to see folks on here "getting back to it", each in our own way . . .    
     
    Dave  
  • Dave
    I would have been grumpy with the Uber driver as well - so you started badly and got worse!
    Pleased you roused yourself this morning and that was a good session to do it too. What was your tempo effort run at?

    alehouse
    nice sounding path. My offroad paths around here are generally pounded earth which is either rutted when dry or a muddy stream when wet - the latter being very very prevalent of late!

    You were right with your weather forecast for last night - it stopped raining about 20 min before I left the house and then ran a fairly tough 4.6 miles with the Hash in dry but bitterly cold and clear conditions.

    I mentioned yesterday that I lived half way up a hill, well the trail took us to the very bottom of said hill and to the very top passing my house as we did and so we ended up with 96m of climb overall!

    Excellent sandwiches and even better Daleside Blonde equipped me to walk home afterwards - lovely starry night but boy was it cold in a stiff wind.

    Went out cautiously this morning to run an easy 4 miles but met a young female runner after half a mile who I normally see going the other way to me but no such luck today.  I had to raise my pace slightly to stay with her for the 2 miles she ran with me as she chatted along and then took her leave - thankfully for me!!

    eased off slightly again but still did the 4 miles in 39:48 (9:56m/m) with avHR 133 and a max of 151 which was quite a surprising return after last night's effort.

    London tomorrow so I have a rest day apart from walking 4 miles to and from meetings!!
  • Glad you got to the Hash, TS, and that you got a decent run in this morning as well. Running in company always helps! 

    And glad you got a better run in today as well, Birch!

    40 minutes off road (different route, a little grass and a few stretches of mud. 6.52 k, or 4.05 miles. Trying to build back up whilst balancing risk and reward. Back was a little tender again but as long as it doesn't worsen I will cope. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Dave:

    There must have been something with yesterday I also was almost taken out by a minibus when he went through a red light only my qick reaction saved me! I am glad you are not hurt and also the Grumpy Dave was only briefly out and normal Dave back today well done!!

    Torque:

    Sounds like you enjoyed the hash and post hash refreshments :) Nice run with faster female today and enjoy your rest tomorrow.


    Yesterday 6 miles over the hills in 1.04 which is fast for me which includes mini bus incident, bread roll buying and carrying in sac on back and hailstones for 1.5 miles.

    Today I was struggling for time and to beat the rain due in so my Rugby club route  6.1 miles 1.01.29 I knocked a minute of my time so pretty happy with that.But I need longer runs and tomorrow weather awful so looks like Friday/Saturday for longer running.

    ALF: Always a little further
    Miles makes smiles.
    Progression
  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    Dave, WP,
    It sounds dangerous to run in the UK. I must admit while I was in the UK a few months ago I did find all the traffic being so close to me while I ran a little unnerving.

    WP,
    Some benefit to the threat of rain, a course PB!

    I chatted to my sister today and the flooding on the Thames seems only moderate but she had her flight to Scotland cancelled due to a strike, nice.

    It was -25c with the wind chill so I chickened out again. I find it very hard to do intervals when it is that cold. Back to the treadmill.
    I ran 3 x 1k with 500m active recovery. I managed to put an 8 in front, 8:50, 8:50 and 8:40, not exactly fast but happy with that.
    HR profile was ok only redlined at the end.



    Mick
  • Torque SteerTorque Steer ✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    Welshpoppy
    hail is a nice accompaniment isn't it?
    You only need to fit one long run before your HM  otherwise you won't fully recover

    Mick
    you definitely win again on the weather front!!
    Good to see 8's appearing and a nice steady pace throughout your intervals

    London was wet yesterday so I missed out one walk and got the Tube  :/  i suspect I walk nearly as far underground as over given the distance to some stations from ground level and I always walk up the escalators as well!!

    Bit tired this morning but still managed the usual 4 miles in 40:21 (10:03m/m) with avHR 132 and a max of 152 with my uphill "sprint" at the end.  Very blustery winds and rain but warmish

    On the train yesterday I could see miles and miles of flooded land stretching almost to the horizon with hedges and trees poking through quite surreally. There has been a lot of rain out there!!
  • Mick:

    Oh I so agree with traffic luckily it does not happen often and one reason i run early not as much traffic on the roads.

    Wow your weather top's ours and lovely to see an 8 number and to be consistant.

    Torque:

    I really am struggling to get Long run in and will definate only do 10 mile races as I can easy fit the training in.So I am hoping for over weekend for it to happen.I had hoped today but I only ran 2 miles as I felt ill, queasy and dizzy and I feel out of sorts.That schedule is laughing at me...it is going to be taken down if things do not improve.I also feel stressed about getting the long run's in, it is spoiling the enjoyment as I just love going out to run and see how far I go with no stress.

    Well done on your 4 miles this morning especially with travelling  and walking in London. :)


    ALF: Always a little further
    Miles makes smiles.
    Progression
  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    TS,
    You're training for a half, it's time to start running up the escalator.

    WP,
    One of the benefits of a treadmill is consistent pacing. Just dial in the number and hang on. The Garmin set on inside running is inconsistent as it only seems to match the treadmill at a limited range, run faster and it shows slower, run slower and it shows faster.
    If you are having trouble getting the long runs in have you consider a double workout in a single day. You get most of the benefit of the total distance without doing it all in one go.

    Xtraining day for me today. Put a lot of effort into my legs.
    Monster walks, squats with a resistance band around the thighs, one legged squats, leg curls, one leg balance drills, bridges on a ball, etc.

    Mick
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    quick checkin - 

    nice to see alehouse building the distance back gradually
     
    good "rugby" run, Poppy - hope you feel better today
     
    Mick - that x-training session makes me feel quite weak just reading about it !!   
     
    TS - good work getting out whilst tired - sadly didn't follow your example this morning - my "marathon mentee" friend has a trail HM tomorrow, so that motivating factor was missing, and I needed to get out early, if I was to go, as I'm off later to Wollaton Park for the Nationals (XC) - wellies at the ready  .. .   
     
    Dave  

    ah, just remembered - TS - you asked re "tempo" pace - well, this was my friend's pace - it came out at 9:30 miles (her HM pb, set last Oct, is 2:09 (about 9:50 pace) ) , so felt reasonably  comfy for me, but still had me breathing more than my "easy" pace does - that's around 10 min these days.  
  • Hope Wollaton went well, Birch (or is going well as I guess the senior men are still running as I type)! And no doubt it was wet: it was last time I went and it has been considerably damper this year.

    parkrun this morning: just over a minute quicker than last week (don't ask me how!) and just over the all important 70% WAVA.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
     Yes, it was wet !     (well done with the WAVA)  :)  


    Image may contain one or more people outdoor nature and waterImage may contain 2 people people standing outdoor and nature
  • Not my idea of fun, Birch! And I mean watching, not running in those conditions! Hope you had a good day.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
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