Flu/Heavy cold symptoms after run sessions.

Hi all.
I've only really started running over the past few months - always been fairly active (tennis, swimming, martial arts) but settled into running recently as time/family constraints make this far easier for me to maintain (literally 30 mins out the door back into the door - no travelling).
Started off with a weekly 5k, then progressed to 2x 5k's, then (recently) a park run Saturday morning (which I've really grown keen on) with anywhere between 3-4 6k's in the evening. I've shed weight and have begin to feel re energised like never before (only the martial arts came close to getting me as fit).
However, I've noticed I've started to grab a fair few heavy colds (not technically flu in most cases...I have had that over the years) which renders me run down for several days.  I had a spot of 'runners knee' the weekend before last (my last run up to date) so was off running for a whole week (started a thread on that - now doing exercises have purchased a temporary strap) but as of last Friday I picked up yet another bug (this feels more flu like and I was on the sofa all weekend.  Still pretty ropey but at least walking around etc.
Did a few online searches and this appears to be very common: in fact a friend of mine eventually stopped running (he'd barely started in all fairness) and my other half when training for a half marathon experienced lots of 'run down/cold' moments.

Do you think I've over done it (too many 6k's in the cold evenings?)? I always wear a hat in the winter as I have a problem when wind/cold gets in my right ear, an infection won't be long behind (had this issue since a kid - recently completed a course of steroid anti-biotics for an ear infection - I wasn't running during this time - 2-3 weeks in January).
I barely drink alcohol - just a bit over the weekend at home when cooking/relaxing and I'd like to think I eat fairly healthy:

*Breakfast: homemade granola, 1 x apple - every day. Lunch 1 x apple then either small sandwich or pasta then greek yohurt with granola and blueberries. Evening - whatever I fancy cooking in the evening. All supplemented with tap water and bits of fruit/granola bars.  And lots of coffee!

Reading up and I understand that this type of training means the body is under a state of repair (rebuilding muscle fibres) and this in turn drops the immune system somewhat, leaving you more open to grabbing infections (we have kids at school which may bring bugs back into the house!). I tend to eat a bowl of granola about an hour before the Sat 9am park run, and for weekly evening runs something like a flapjack. I rehydrate with water afterwards (and probably snack too) but that's about it.
Should I be looking at supplements as part of the battle?  A few posts bring up discussions on Echinacea drops (and Echinaforce tablets are often mentioned - I might try and pick some up today actually - I need this current bug to shift soon. Maybe increase vitamin C in take (tab form?)?
Cut back the 6k's to 4k's for a while and build up more slowly?  Or, perhaps I'm not really made for winter running (I have a kind of 'latent' asthma - picks up around animals and very cold air). I do get that 'lung burn' I always remember from school cross country runs.
What I don't want to do however, is give this in.  Aside from these heavy cold/run down moments, I've felt so much better physically and mentally (totally revitalised).
Maybe join a gym and do indoor work when I'm not feeling the love for the cold? I do suffer from a fair few chest infections (suprised to read on these boards just how many people suffer with pneumonia).

Not trying to be diagnosed here, but any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated (just turned 44 by the way).

Many thanks.

Comments

  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Colds are caused by viruses, so maybe blame the kids!   You don't seem to eat much variety and no veg at all mentioned.
    Don't run when you have a cold, wait until you are well again.  Unfortunately a cold knocks the immune system and makes you vulnerable to picking up another one.   When you run, do wrap up warmly and don't run too fast, run easy not getting out of breath, save that for the parkruns.  When you are well enough to run again run every other day and make sure you are eating well, are you underweight?   When you feel 100% again you should be able to run on consecutive days, if you wish

    In the world of running your mileage is low, less than 20 miles a week so I think it's your general health that you need to focus on.
  • Many thanks Shades.  Yes, I could probably do with increasing the veg intake. Although I'm always throwing fruit down my throat (always 2 apples a day as long time habit now) then upped with grapes, blueberries throughout the day) I'm probably less drawn towards vegetables in all fairness - I used to eat a lot when I cooked Chinese food in my wok, so perhaps I should revert back to that (red/green peppers, broccoli were always in those meals)?.
    I also tend to have at least one bowl of salad a day (usually rocket, pea shoots with cherry tomatoes - and spinach occasionally).
    When I run in the cold evenings (which I do really enjoy!) I wear tights and shorts, gloves and a hat..but just a thin long sleeved running top. With the hat (and this is mainly for my ear at the moment) I'm pretty much 'roasting' at the end of the run. `Oddly, I'm always proclaiming (to anyone who will listen!) that colds are caused by viruses rather than being out in the cold, or not having the heating on high!
    When I looked into 'running with colds', much of the advice suggested the 'below the neck/above the neck' theory, but it might be clear that I've run when not fully over a cold/infection, run quite hard (and I do tend to hammer it on the home straight till out of breath!).  Probably part of the reason I'm linking a cold with running.

    Also from reading a fair bit on here (and other sites) the process of running and causes on the muscles might mean my body is 'sending troops' over to another location leaving me open to further colds/viruses (immune system lowered).  Wondering if I'm not 'refuelling' enough after a run (or before) hindering the anabolism/catabolism process.  Since posting the above mentioning Echinacea, I spoke with somebody who suggested that it's unlikely to have any effect on my colds after running.
    They did mention looking into whey protein however. I know I should be getting enough protein the correct way, but wondering if a supplement could help? As you say, I'm not doing particularly long mileage in the week so I'd be wise to look aft other things first.
    Consecutive evening 6k runs (and pushing it somewhat) perhaps wasn't wise at this stage: is there a point when this is feasible? Hard to gauge - my body felt happy enough doing these in the short term, but clearly it's knocked it back eventually. Record for 5k so far is 22.30sec (started around 30 mins).

    Not underweight (in fact if I'm not careful I'd always be on the slightly heavier side) but I've lost a fair bit through running  - not eating as much though, and I'm not really a 'big drinker' these days.  I'd say I was happy getting trim and probably reluctant to 'undo' the good work through the running and eating less (to the point where I might be eating 'too little'?). The spectre of vanity is always hovering around somewhere!

    At the moment I'm still reeling through last weekends 'mild flu bout' (although I'd not run a week previously due to that knee issue so not directly linking that to running) so totally off any activity (body is still 'reverberating' from that). Hopefully I can start a little run this weekend.  My other half and eldest daughter have recently joined a gym which I'm seriously thinking about that. I have a swim membership somewhere else anyway so may as well combine that with the gym (I have my eye on a triathlon at one stage).
    BTW - I also do 200 press ups everyday (another habit I formed ten years ago, just so that I was always doing at least something - I now supplement these with stretches - mainly for my core/knee issues, but also to help with my lower back).

    Many thanks for your advice - I think there's more than enough clues in your reply.  I see this as a long term habit, so I'll probably rein it in a little, initially then gradually increase (10 rule?). A 10k race and half marathon is something else I'd like to aim for.

    Regards.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Your reply shows that you know what you need to do.   Gyms and swimming pools are germ factories so I'd avoid them while your immune system is a little vulnerable to picking up another cold. 
    As you've lost a bit of weight, which you're happy with I think perhaps you are not refuelling enough.   There's no need to look at protein shakes etc., you can get all you need from good nutritious food, but I just get the hint from your original post that there's no variety in your diet, you could be a bit low on protein, maybe eggs and toast for breakfast for a change and fish or chicken/meat for lunch.


    Your 5km time is very good and you've seen a lot of improvement but remember 80% of your weekly mileage should be at easy pace, the remaining 20% you can do as parkrun or a tempo run.


    We should be getting warmer weather soon which is much better for running.
  • Thanks - very useful advice there Shades. Beofre stepping up the running late last year, I'd do a 1000 metre swim (sound better than 1k!) as my daughter swims every evening at her club. She's currently off that, hence why I ran more. I've always been a swimmer, hence why I could do with getting that stepped up (and alternate with running) - infection wise, I've always been ok with swimming (never swim with an ear infection however).
    I did notice that my evening runs were getting easier (average 29mins for 6k) - my natural pace had increased, but then I'd try an push for better times (overly exerting and not properly refuelling, clearly now!).  I'll revert back to pace (longer term increase).
    I'll follow these tips Shades and see how I get on...at least I'm aware of where I'm probably 'going wrong'.
    Warmer weather sounds tantalising already...!

    Thanks again.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Warmer weather is coming, I saw primroses yesterday! B)


    Good luck with your training and enjoy your running, it's a great sport
  • Yes, there's definitely hint of spring in the air.
    I remember I did a small bit of running last year (again during the cold winter - I think I prefer running the streets when it's dark, at least as I get used to developing a style?!). Then I get w few winter colds and I'm probably linking the two.  This virus I picked up last weekend isn't really shifting quickly enough (though I'm a lot better). Not sure whether to stay off running for another week (eat healthy and rest more) and just write `these past few weeks off as experience.
    Interesting to read up yesterday about the 'Vitamin D' stuff...maybe I'm lacking in that (fairly dark skinned and dark haired...Mediterranean blood somewhere along the lines)?? Might explain why I get hit with colds from November to March every year! 
    Definitely adding more protein and veg to my diet now (and alternating...I'm a creature of habit) and then dropping down the 6k evening runs for 5k and on alternate days.
    Part of my trouble has been trying to keep up with friends who have been running for much longer (and often run to work and back -that's running twice a day every day) when I'm simply not trained for that yet (the addiction kicked in early).
    I'll build slowly.

    Thanks again.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Don't rush to get back to running if you still don't feel 100%.   If you have cabin fever wrap up warm and have a nice walk in the fresh air.    It will take a while to build up your immune system again.  
    Yes, interesting re the stuff about Vitamin D, I am very fair skinned and although I run daily I run early so often in the dark, I avoid the sun.   But I've been taking calcium supplements for years and they have Vitamin D added which is a bit of luck.   My diet is fairly rich in Vitamin D too although I will continue with the supplement as I'm sure I don't get enough from food and daylight exposure.  
    Your friends have probably been running for years and years and will have taken quite a while to build up to running twice a day.
    Good to hear you're  changing around your diet a bit, we're all creatures of habit and it's so easy to just buy and eat the same stuff.   I deliberately try and buy a different fruit and a veg as well as my normal stuff every week, it's worth doing as I've found some lovely stuff that I really enjoy.

  • Thanks Shades.
    I was wondering about vitamin supplements...even if I think I'm getting enough from my diet (hard to currently ascertain) so I've recently taken a few (I've taken cod liver oil for the past 20 years...odd habit I formed in my teens!).
    What's the nutrition/diet advice on these boards like (as in fairly busy/experience)?  I do like fish (I started making a lot of sushi recently) but when looking into that (sushi) there's a few alarms bells over how much fish you should eat. A few reports suggest eating salmon on twice a year (due to mercury levels) - I sometimes eat that twice a week - I love it!?!  I've found a local fishmonger that do Sashmi grade fish (raw tuna, salmon etc) but that won't be habit as it's quite expensive. Mussels, prawns too.
    I find if frustrating that for every good report on (what you would think of as healthy food) then turns out to 'apparently' have negative effects.

    BTW - have there been any discussions on the relationship between bread and running? I knocked bread on the head (a little) but absolutely love (good) bread. When I upped my running, I was still veering around it as I thought if would be adding all the weight back on I'd lost running.

    I missed my park run this morning - probably 50% better than I was at the start of the week, but still 'shaky', low energy so I'll keep it easy for a while.  Hopefully by mid week I can do a 4-5k run (not strenuous, Strava watching one!).
    All our kids have now come down with the same thing, so I guess I can't fully attribute the ailment to my training. Glad it's happened though as it's opened up a few things I was doing wrong...there's science in it afterall!

    Many thanks.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    A basic multivitamin and mineral supplement will certainly do no harm at all as long as it's not used as an excuse for a limited diet.   The forums are useful for finding out what other runners eat and getting their opinion on diet.    I don't think you can go far wrong if you eat a varied and balanced diet, not excluding any food groups.   I have little time for those folk that have eliminated gluten from their diet for no medical reason.   Bread especially is a good staple food and gluten a valuable source of protein, bread is good too when you need carbs as it's easy and versatile to eat, I had toast before my long run this morning.

    Sorry to hear the kids now have your lurgy, but at least you should be the first to recover and maybe back to your parkrun next week.
  • Interesting thread. But I suspect that simply increasing your calorific intake will stop the cold / flu symptoms. Try having an extra sandwich or, heck, even a chocolate muffin every day for a week. My guess is that your problems disappear by the end of the week.
  • Cheers.  Yes, bit of a learning curve for me.  I did initially put it down to the fact I'd started running in the winter and my body was caving in.  As I mentioned above, my other half and some friends all reported similar feeling after starting running (and then simply stopped).  I didn't want to quit (I've really got into running, even at this early stage) so thought it best looking for reasons why it was happening.
    A big culprit (now clear!) is when I started losing weight: firstly from eating a little better (I've generally eat quite healthily and barely drink) then from running I thought that there was little point 'putting that weight back on' by eating more after a 6k run (which I didn't think was that much). 3-4 6k runs in the evenings (and going for times on each one - currently at around 29mins) plus the weekend park run I felt wasn't really 'high intensity' and always felt great afterwards (even more so in a warm bath!)...but then after a week or so of this, I'd grab a heavy cold/run down wall.
    I've always been on the slightly 'podgy' side (I've never really been obese except for when I was maybe 16-17 and I reached 14.5 stone - I'm currently under 12.5 stone), but to me, this is excess flab and for the first time in a long time it looks like I might finally shift it through running (swimming is helping too).
    I grew up swimming and playing tennis, never a runner so my body is taking time to adjust I guess?

    So yes...I'm going to knock those 6k runs down to 4k's for a while (10% distance increase per week about right?) on alternate days (then 'go for it' on the weekend park run). Eat more protein and not skip warm ups/downs and stretches (I've had bouts of runners knee).
    Good to hear that about bread...down to one slice at one stage (usually wholemeal, but sometimes not) - same apply to pasta?
    I've also grabbed a few bags of those 'seeds' (chia et al) to add into my Greek yoghurt and blueberries. Chocolate muffin sounds good :)
    This is all contrary to what I thought was the 'right way', but I'll take it from your experience quite happily :)

    Another thing: since I've bought my running watch (which I've yet to use as it's intended purpose!) I've noticed I'm clocking up over 20,000 steps, 20k distance and 2700 calories on an average  day (I didn't purchase the watch for this reason - interested anyway) - this is without any running.  I think given that I'm not particularly over eating then was going out for a 6k run, perhaps I was 'under fuelled'?

    Still a little bit under (it's more catarrh now) but almost on the mend.
    Possible 4k this evening.

    Many thanks again!
  • NessieNessie ✭✭✭
    Definitely sounds as if you are underfuelling - have a look at MyFitnessPal (free phone app) which you can use to track your intake daily.  It's probably not 100% accurate, but it will give you an idea if you are way over or under in any given day.  It can also link to some fitness trackers (I have it linked to my fitbit) so you can track how much you have burned in the same place - again probably close enough for a general trend.

    Alternatively, you could sell your kids.  Little germ carriers that they are ;)  Mine are a tag team of what they bring home, and it's impossible to avoid catching it.
  • Cheers Nessie - I have that app on my phone...I've filled in a few details but not paid too much attention to it at the moment! Probably thinking it will be a struggle to note exactly what calories I'm taking in (easy enough on 'microwave meals' as all is noted...but I tend to make much of my own food - granola for breakfast for example)?
    I suppose I could weigh my usual breakfast and look online for a rough calorie guide?
    I'll have another look at it - I think my watch can be linked to it.
    Yeah..the kids...I thought (mistakenly!) that bumping into lots of different bugs the kids pick up should strengthen ones immune system over time. I call that in as FAKE!! :)

    Cheers!



  • I experience a similar problem to you - although mostly after race efforts, and then down for a week or so (happened after a 5mi PB race and a 10mi PB race two months later).

    I've been down with some sort of winter cold, that's been pretty voracious and is still lingering now, in the form of congestion and occasional cold flare-ups.

    Some times it's just bad luck that a nasty illness is going round, or that you've pushed your body to the limit but, like everyone else has mentioned, it can be aided by nutrition!
    When running 6x a week, about 50mi, I realised that my current diet wouldn't suffice, and so I started having a 4th meal each day - a decent amount of porridge at 10-11 am. This, and also drinking a pint of chocolate Nesquik after every run, have made sure my weight hasn't dropped (the rest of my diet is varied, and healthy) and that I keep pretty healthy (except for this current illness...)
    My partner is a primary school teacher, and so I've just got to allow for down time due to illness being a thing. For what it's worth, I'm 23 and running seriously for 18 months.

    Hope you get well soon!
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