Apple Watch Series 2 (Nike+) "Average Pace"

MacMac ✭✭✭
Does anyone have an Apple Watch Series 2 (Nike+ or otherwise) and if so can it or can it not display a constant "Average" (not current) pace on the screen whilst running?
I have read reviews stating that it can't (although it does apparently tell/show you every mile which isn't good enough)
They may have been written before a possible software/app update though?
I have also spoken to Apple and an Apple store who tell me it can? (again possibly due to a software/app update?)
This is surely one of the most basic and essential running stats so it would be daft for it not to be available?
Can anyone help with a categorical answer?
Basically I want the following displayed on my watch screen (not a phone) or at least a single swipe or button push away...
  • Run Timer
  • Distance
  • Average pace ("live" and constantly updating as I run)
  • HR
  • Time of day if possible
Is this possible with a series 2?
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Comments

  • MacMac ✭✭✭
  • GuyGuy ✭✭✭
    Yes - the Apple Workout app will display all that.
    You can also customise the screen, to have calories instead.
    There are various other apps that will display similar information, but the Workout app tends to be the most reliable/accurate, and is the one I use most (until Strava gets its act together and fixes its currently broken/inaccurate app).
  • MacMac ✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Thanks Guy, so the "average pace" can be displayed as one of the selected info fields (which I understand you have to do on your phone?) which is great news but can I ask is it "live" as in a "current" average pace or is it only refreshed every mile etc? (I'd read that it does tell you your average for every mile, which is not what I want as I want a live average pace that refreshes as and when I change pace so that whenever I look at the average pace reading it represents my current average pace for the run so far?)
    I use average pace in my Garmin 210 as current pace is all over the place but average is much better behaved and allows me to up or down my pace based on up to date readings (not a pace nearly a mile out of date) and not having to wait until I pause or finish to view.

    Do you mind my asking about battery life and GPS accuracy?
    Can the GPS be turned off or put into indoor mode (like my Garmin 210) in order to preserve what reviewers claim to be a poor battery life?
    If I were to want to use it as a watch without needing GPS for example and wanted more than one day's worth of use between charges?
    Have you ever done that and if so how long did you get between charges when not using to run?
    Do you know how they fix a satellite so fast (3-2-1) when others (even newer top watches) seem to need up to 30 seconds or so to fix?
    Is it because it is fixed permanently? (Would explain the battery life)

    Basically I really want to get one but need to convince myself that for nearly £400 it will tick my boxes and that some of the poor reviews on accuracy, battery life and limited running functionality are either untrue or exaggerated???

    Thanks
    Mac.
  • GuyGuy ✭✭✭

    You use your phone to select the metrics that you want to display - but once you have done that you no longer need the phone with you.

    You can choose "current pace" - which varies a lot, and is not very useful - or "average pace" - which I understand to be average pace over the entire run, constantly updated. I can't say that I look at the average pace all that often, but I am pretty sure that it does change during miles, and I have never noticed any dramatic change at the end of each mile. I will have a closer look when I run tomorrow - and will let you know if I am wrong about this.

    I have found the battery life to be pretty good, and haven't ever tried to turn the GPS off. I can do a run of an hour or so, wear the watch for the rest of the day, and still have 30/40% charge at the end of the day. I always charge it overnight (using it as a bedside clock/alarm). It I don't run I can wear it for a couple of days without charging.

    The only times battery life has been an issue has been 20+ mile runs, where it has been fine for the run - but by the end of the day the battery is down to 10% or less. I have read that if I turned off the heart rate monitor that would significantly increase battery life, but I have not yet found it necessary. My guess is that you could run 4.5/5 hours with the heart rate monitor turned on before the battery would die - although I haven't gone over 4 hours with it yet.

    It only uses GPS when an app requires that - it is not constantly monitoring GPS. You can stop particular apps (through your iphone) using GPS if you want to. Whilst it appears to get a quick GPS lock when you start running, without a signal bar you don't actually know that it has a lock. It may just be using the accelerometer to measure distance until it gets a lock. That said, it seems pretty consistent over the first mile of each run.

    Accuracy seems to depend on what app you use. Most seem pretty accurate, and consistent with one another. The Strava app, whilst providing the best data, is currently useless as it frequently over-measures by around 10%.

    Hope that helps you decide.

    Guy.

  • MacMac ✭✭✭
    Thanks Guy for your detailed and very helpful reply.
    I will await with interest your further comments regarding the average pace i.e. does it constantly update or only every mile etc?
    I suppose you'd have to run and deliberately speed up/slow down over a distance of less than a mile to see if it updates, how often and how quickly it responds to change?
    By the way, do you use the music and how easy/difficult is it to load music, listen and adjust (volume/track/pause etc.) during a run?
    Can you choose to start the music with the run or do you have to start it before or after you start running, independently of the running functions?
    Thanks

    Mac.
  • GuyGuy ✭✭✭
    I kept an eye on average pace today. It is definitely an average over the entire run, and seems to update throughout the run - not just at the end of every mile. I had some fairly diverse splits, thanks to hills, but the average pace stayed fairly constant, just moving slowly up or down; and there were no sudden changes at the end of each split.
    I have only used the watch once for playing music when running. Whilst it confirmed that I am incapable of running with music (it seems to upset my balance) the process of loading music and playing it was very easy. To get the music onto the watch you synchronise a playlist through your phone; pair some bluetooth headphones with the watch; and then press play on the watch. I am fairly sure I started it separately, and then switched over to the running app - but I can't say I have explored this much.
  • MacMac ✭✭✭
    Thanks Guy, that's good news, especially as all reviewers (you tube, DC Rainmaker etc...) claimed it was not possible as a live stat, only live current pace.
    They claimed average was only displayed/announced every mile or when you paused the run or when you finished the run on a summary screen.
    Perhaps they were early reviews and there may have been software/app updates since then?
    Or perhaps they simply didn't know how to do it?
    As for music, I like to run with it as it keeps my mind of the pain!
    Glad to hear it's easy to load and use though.
    Thanks again, much appreciated.
    Mac.
  • edited March 2017
    live average pace for the whole run is useless though.... you have no idea if you are running too quickly or slowly 'now'... and whether it is by 10 secs a mile or 1m30secs!.... you really do need a damped current average...
    lets be honest.... its all prep for an Ironman on my 100th birthday
  • MacMac ✭✭✭
    Hmmm, not sure I can agree although I understand your logic.
    I only use average pace as I like to glance at my watch, check if I'm (on average) running too fast or slow in order to generally tweak my pace accordingly.
    I'm not too fussed about ups and downs as long as on average I'm within a certain pace.
    If I used current (providing it didn't zip round all over the place and was therefore useful) I'd be constantly tweaking my pace.
    I'm not that serious TBH so a reasonably accurate "live" idea of my average pace at any given time I choose is enough for me.
    We all run differently though so there's no right or wrong I suppose.
    Having said that it would be good to have a current pace that was stable and useful.
  • NickW2NickW2 ✭✭✭
    Average pace for the whole run is far from useless, I would say it's the main thing I look at during a run.

    If I'm trying to run an even pace for the run (which is the case for most of my runs) then I can tell if I'm going too fast/slow by whether the average moves up/down. I also set my watch to show the split times each km which is decent feedback on longer runs.
  • if you ran 6 miles in total, with the first 5 at 9m/mile and slowed to 10m/mile for the last mile, the average pace would only change at the rate of 2secs per minute...  while it will still tell you at the finish that you ran at an average of 9:10 for the whole run, it fails to tell you that you slowed dramatically in the last mile (although you may be aware of that outside of your watch if the change is too big). That kind of pace change, unintentionally, isn't really ideal... it might be ok for a leisurely run on a tuesday evening in Jan, but really no use at all if you are trying to meet a PB in a 10k run, or trying to run to a target pace as part of a half marathon training plan.... so perhaps, as you say, its ok as a tool for those just out to run for fun, but as anything resembling a training aid, its pointless. 

    PS, I'm a big Apple fan , so this isn't an anti Apple rant!
    lets be honest.... its all prep for an Ironman on my 100th birthday
  • MacMac ✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Actually, this all started because the Apple Watch had reviews stating it couldn't display average pace as a "live" stat, only current pace.
    However the current pace was reported as being so erratic as to be all but completely useless.
    I couldn't get a straight answer from Apple or Apple stores, they didn't "get" what i was asking let alone have the ability (or knowledge in their own product) to answer me as most of their staff have only ever ran to the Costa or Starbucks across from them!
    That's why I addressed any possible AW2 owners on here to hopefully address my (you'd have thought simple) question.
    I don't think for a second that you were ranting or indeed anti-Apple as your comments are if anything more geared towards the reviewers comments that it could only supply a current pace anyway.
    Does a watch exist that displays a reliable, stable current pace?
    They all seem to have reviews claiming the negative.
  • I don't know what the damping is on my Garmin, but it usually homes in on a reasonably accurate current pace within 3 or 4 secs unless its lost the GPS signal, which seems reasonable... it takes my wheezy old legs and lungs that long to speed up anyway!!!!.. to avoid any bias, I've seen the same results on TomToms and Polars.

    lets be honest.... its all prep for an Ironman on my 100th birthday
  • MacMac ✭✭✭
    I have noticed that on my FR210 the average pace sometimes starts realistic and pretty much stays that way.
    Other times it will go to some ridiculous reading right from the start (say 25min/mile) and take almost half the distance of a 5 mile course to eventually stabilise into something resembling a realistic pace?
    That does make it very difficult to adapt your pace during the run as you always think you're too slow, even when in reality you're not.
    Strange one that and one I've always put down to being an older watch (2011) with inferior GPS reliability than newer devices?
  • could well be... the newer GPS chips can pick up a lot more satellites at the same time, so are much less likely to have an insufficient number of satellites, or sats in poor locations, so tend to get a fix much more quickly, and much more reliably... they also support more accurate fixes, and alternative systems like Glonass
    lets be honest.... its all prep for an Ironman on my 100th birthday
  • NickW2NickW2 ✭✭✭
    If you're trying to hit a certain pace but you unintentionally slow significantly, then I think this just means you can't hit that pace? e.g. if you're trying to run a 10k PB, the last mile you will just be giving it everything rather than checking the average pace on your watch (and if your watch tells you that you have slowed down, there probably isn't much you can do about it). From a personal point of view in this situation, in a 10k in the last mile if I saw my average pace drop even by 2 seconds in a minute or so then I would know I was slowing down significantly.

    And actually, in a race (or training session with a goal pace), I would normally know what the required average pace is to hit my target time. e.g. if I wanted to run a half in 1:40, I know that's 7:38/mile on average. So I would be comparing my average to that to see if I was on track (and also checking to see if my watch was measuring short or long compared to the mile markers!)

    In terms of a "damped average", I think a lot of running watches have "lap pace" as an option, which can be used with autolap to show average pace since the last mile/km split. I have this on mine too but find I rarely look at it - I can show 3 fields per screen and so normally have total distance, total time, and average pace. I have the lap equivalents on the second screen but it's very rare that I bother to look at it while I'm on a run.
  • NickW2NickW2 ✭✭✭
    Haha, lots of replies while I was writing that. I have a Garmin 225, only briefly used current pace as it seems quite erratic. Average normally starts off fast or slow (I put this down to current being erratic) but settles within the first few hundred metres of the run.
  • MacMac ✭✭✭
    Most of the time mine settles down (eventually) to a (I assume) accurate average pace. Sometimes however I am unconcinced it ever recovers from the erratic readings at the start and into an accurate pace?
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