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Manchester Marathon 2018
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Cotswold all sounding more positive! Negative thoughts can play havoc on running and easy to holt plans.
Rob, just to and to northender and cals comments I agree with alternating the 20 mile runs with a 16-18 mile run with some mp miles a few examples would inc neg splitting the whole run (1st half easy 2nd half at mp), putting a few slow miles either side of mp miles in the middle, final 10 miles of the run consists of 3x 2miles marathon pace with 2 miles in between at slower pace.
today was my 1st 20, yesterday was a boozy day watching local football side (hertford town) so wasn’t feeling great but stuck a pretty consistant speed and finished in 2.56 (8.50 pace).
yay massage tomorrow god my legs need it.
7 weeks to go, 4-5 more weekends of training till taper
My only concern is if the temperature is very different in April then I will have to try and adjust without having had any practice.
RobF - nice to get first 20 out of the way. I have followed the P&D plan for last three marathons but added more 20's as they seem light. Personally speaking I find 6 or 7 20's sets me up nicely. Basically, I do them until they start to feel comfortable. Last one three weeks out peaks at around 22/23 miles or 3 hours (whichever comes first).
Cotswold - nice end to the week with the XC and the 20 at a good pace. I sometimes take a couple of gels with me and also a couple of quid hidden in my gloves as I pass some convenience stores if I feel the need for some water/isotonic.
Cal - well-done at Hampton Court. Sounded like a well judged performance with clear goal in mind. As you say, perspective from two weeks ago is crucial at this stage. Still time left to improve fitness.
RobO - nice first 20 and good effort for toughing that out after the efforts the day before. Eeek... The countdown is alarming.
As mentioned previously I tend to perform well off a good few 20 milers. I have also been told time on feet for slower runners is preferred to distance. So rather than knackering yourself all week doing 3:30+ runs just run for time instead.
An old coach of mine often told me I ran long runs too quick. This impacted the rest of my week so wasn't getting the full benefit from other key sessions. I seem to be slower across the board so running long runs slowly hasn't been a problem.
I will do 3 out of 4 weeks 20 milers with a 15 as the other run. Should get me another 4 banked before taper including the time on feet 3 hour run.
Anyway, truncated week for me so only 3 runs and 40 miles total. Half of the miles from yesterday's 20 run on a favourite hilly route. Felt much better than last week and picked pace up the whole way round.
Back to back twenty milers? Most of the books and plans don't recommend it. If you have already built up to it and have already done multiple 20s, then it won't be a major strain on the body. But if this was the first, play it safe. As others pointed out, there are many ways to run a very effective 15-18 miles (more is not necessarily better). A simple negative split run, where the second half is faster, or even at, or close to, MP works great. Or 3x3 mi at MP. Or 123, where 1 mile easy, 1 mile MP and 1 at LT. Repeat twice. Or any other variation. Or, if you don't feel up to it, run it easy!
Cotswold, well done to you too. But if you weren't really ready for 20 miles (at a faster pace than planned) then take it a bit easier the next couple of days, just to be cautious.
Cal, that's super! A decent race, but even better, the niggles remained at bay!
RobO - well done on your first twenty, too! Glad it's all slowly coming together.
Cal, you're right about the 20s not beingbfor everybody. In fact in some running books (Daniels, Pfiz? Maffetone) they say not to run longer than 2.5 hours. Doesn't seem like anyone really listens to this advice...!
Rope ladder, well done to you too. Sounds like a good strategy. Trial and error is the best way.
Jason - 6 or 7 twenty milers until they get comfortable is nice. I wish I could do that, but... not enough time..!
I had a decent training week - 60 miles in total over 5 days, with a mid-week 10 mile tempo (15 in total) and my first 20 miler yesterday.
Rationally thinking, I ought to have a down week now, as the last 3 weeks' mileages were 50, 55 and 60, with long runs steadily lengthening too from 17 to 19 and 20. I know it's the right thing to do, even though it means missing out on a very important training week. The most vital weeks are 8, 7 and 6 weeks out from the marathon. It's a hard decision to make, but better safe than sorry! Anyway, last time I took an off week, my fitness made a little jump, so I will hope the same happens here too!
Only 4 training weeks left... Make them count!
Wokingham HM for me yesterday. Ideal conditions and I had a decent race. Wasn't expecting much so was very pleased to clock 1:14:29 for my second fastest HM. Hopefully this will translate to a good showing at Manchester if, and its a big if, I can convert to the marathon distance!
Tom - Superb run and shows you're in fine fettle.
I took a rest day yesterday (I had considered a recovery run, but had a very poor night's sleep - often the case after race, but compounded by a mouse scuttling about and making a racket. Little bugger refuses to step on one of my traps, despite the allure of peanut butter).
But I rather surprised myself today. Having just retired the shoes I wore for Hampton Court (they had over 700 miles on them), I had the benefit of new shoes. Not sure if that helped, but my legs felt good and bouncy and I ended up running further and faster than I intended. The first mile was a good 30 second faster than it usually is, so I just held my pace and kept going for 10 miles. Average pace was 10:18 - a smidge slower than last year's Manchester MP. And I feel pretty decent now - not overly achey or anything.
I think I will have to do some sort of recovery run tomorrow to avoid burning myself out. I want to take my Zoom Flys (not the new shoes I wore today, which are Free Motions, identical to the old pair) for a spin around a parkrun on Saturday - I'd like to have a nice fast parkrun so I know where I'm at for the The Big Half the following weekend.
I've booked my trains for Manchester now. I'm staying with my friend who lives there and have decided to go to a theme park (either Alton or Blackpool, depending on which gets their new coaster open first) on the Monday, which should help get some blood flow into my legs.
I guess it turns out actually following a plan and being consistent works!
Shuka - always good to feel the training is having an effect. I once broke a soft 5k PB twice in the same session !
Took two days rest this week (Mon/Tue) as was feeling a bit wiped out. Ran a progressive 10 miles last night which I was really happy with. Average pace is certainly going in the right direction as is average HR.
I've still not decided if I should ran that half to really see where I am at or the 20 mile race for a more pragmatic approach.
I'll be travelling down to the New Forest this weekend to see my folks but will get some miles banked hopefully.
I did 4 recovery on Wednesday, rest yesterday (but I did do hot pilates, which is a brutal core class - my abs are pretty sore this morning) and 6 easy today. Already on 20 for the week, which isn't bad. I'm not a high mileage person - I'm usually in the 30s and sometimes 40s when I hit peak marathon training.
I had an excellent parkrun today. I usually do my local, which is 5 minutes up the road, but as it has become horrendously busy and I also wanted a fully paved route to test my Zoom Flys on, I decided to go further afield to Fulham Palace. It's a much faster course - flatter (not that Tooting isn't flat, but there are a couple of mild gradients) and while it's still busy, it isn't nearly as congested as Tooting. I was into my stride a lot quicker and the shoes were great. I felt strong, too, and ended up knocking out my fastest parkrun for about a year - 26:29. (Put it this way - I was just under 28 last week). Age cat win too.
These will be my race shoes now.
Cal - nice work at the parkrun. I need to get myself some new shoes and bed them in. Your reports have inspired me to do this sooner rather than later
20 more today to round off a 53 mile week; an 18 month high.
20 today was 13 minutes faster than 3 weeks ago and all bar one of the miles ended up starting with a 7. Very pleased with progress especially as I had a couple of decent 10 milers in there too this week.
Just need to continue down this path for next few weeks without over-cooking things.
Long drive back North now as been in New Forest visiting folks. Luckily Mrs SJ at the wheel !
Cracking PR Cal-well done! Sounds like you have found the perfect race shoes.
Fantastic improvements in just a few weeks SJ! Always such a confidence boost when you can see huge progress being made as the hard work is clearly paying off.....keep it going now! Any prep races planned?
Legs took a lot longer than hoped for/expected to recover from Wokingham but I have been on HalfTerm hoilday in Cornwall this week so have been doing lots of slow recovery miles up and down all the big hills! Back home now and legs slowly coming back to me. 22 miles @ 6:35s this morning to bring up 77 miles for the week. Very cold out there and it's going to get even colder this week. Take care it it gets icy!
Excellent training, saintjason - that's a very satisfying week's work.
And well done on the 22, Tom. I can't even imagine running that fast.
One of the bad things about being what the fast folks in my club call a slowby is that a long run takes a bloody eternity. I got out today (despite a bit of a rubbish sleep which included a minor nosebleed at 2.30am and then me getting up to make myself tea and toast at 4am because I was starving, reading for an hour and then getting back to sleep for another hour or so at 5am) and managed 18 miles on my hilly Brockwell route. I was sluggish to start with, unsurprisingly, but finished faster so it took me 3:13:34. I took two gels and energy levels were fine throughout but my hamstrings were starting to tie up towards the end. I need to be able to persuade my leg muscles to keep going for at least another hour, somehow.
This brings me to my highest weekly total since Manchester last year: 42. Next week will be less as I want to be fresh(ish) for the Big Half on Sunday. I've never run in the same race as the likes of Mo Farah and Callum Hawkins before, so I'd like to put on a good show (even if those fellows are literally twice as fast as I am).
Ran on Tuesday and it was giving me a bit of grief so decided to give it a bit of a rest and get a sports message.
Missed the Scottish National XC yesterday as I didn’t want to risk it but went out and did 7 miles this morning to pick up the car after a night out last night. Hamstring felt ok but still a bit nippy for a couple of miles in the middle.
The plan this week is to try and get a few easy runs doing the week and manage the hamstring with a view to try and get a 20miler done on Sunday.
Its been a bit injury plagued training so far so I’ve more or less ruled out my sub 4 target. Just aiming to get round now.
Looks like every else’s training is going well. Keep it going! ?
SJ, fantastic effort 53 miles, any closer to a decision to the half or the 20? Always nice to do an away day run, was it planned or did you just head off running for 20 miles?
Sol hope you stuck to the cutback week? Well done on those massive last 2 weeks.
Tom fantastic half last week, was that far off your PB, hope you enjoyed cornwall where abouts were you? Last year ran from Padstow to Lands End (3 marathons 3 days) 80 miles of stunning coastline.
Cal well done on the Parkrun, not too far away from your PB. I have just as much respect for runners at the front of the pack as to those in the middle and the back, getting on the london marathon 2016 course from mile 20-26 with my fiancee when she did the london marathon in 7hr 18, she has trained so hard in the lead up and would be out training longer than I would. Keep on working hard and good luck next week at London half.
Northender treating manchester as a long run or race the 1st half and then review?
Zippy keep on ticking over, main aim guessing getting to start line as fit as poss.
After a massage on Monday decided for a cutback week, tues 5 miles easy, thurs intervals 8x800 @ 10k pace 200m recovery. Saturday 6 mile a satisfying progression run started at 9 min miles and final mile in a pleasing 6.56. Today 17 mile off road run.
Cambridge half this week, (weather permitting) my pb 1.34.47 from my 1st ever race in 2010 is a long way off but hope to get close/ beat my 2nd fasted 1.38.5X 2 years ago at SIlverstone. If the weather is too icy then i'll probably knock it on the head and swap it for a slow 20 miler instead.
St Jason... rapid stuff. What are you targeting?
Robert... sounds like we're not far apart... I have similar HM pb and also 1:38 as a second fastest. Weather permitting, I have newport HM on Sunday and hope to challenge that second best time.
Zippy, good luck in putting the niggly stuff behind you.
Tom.. great effort, as always.
Interesting comments on how I should approach Manchester. For sure, saintjason, I feel confident that I'll be be able to stick to plan. The trouble is, I can't make my mind up on what that plan should be! I really do think Manchester is just a bit early for me - you saw my weekly mileages in my last post... you can add 42 for this week... so it's going pretty well, but I fear that if I race Manchester, I'll not get the optimum result, and also that might take something out of my Newport run. But there are many other permutations and I'll look for advice in another 2 or 3 of weeks, when I will know better where I'll be.
Up early for a twenty-miler in the cold today.
Good week of training in the bank though, 48.5m total with a 20m long run in 3:06.
I had a decent week and another good weekend. Did some hills with the club on Tuesday, nice recovery on the trails weds and a midweek long run Thurs. Parkrun (and 5k) pb on Saturday and a comfortably hard 18 miles at MP + 30s on Sunday to bank 2nd 50 mile + week in a row.
Most pleasing at moment is how I'm recovering after the harder sessions. I'm really getting very little soreness at all. Maybe I'm not working hard enough! Easier week this week, which is a relief purely for the fact I only have four runs which makes life easier logistically.
Shuka.. 3 weeks out is a bit of a gamble for a half good luck in what you decide. Maybe treat it as a long run start off slower than marathon pace so you cant race it increase to marathon pace for the back end then tag 5-9 miles at the end for a final long run?
Cotswold, always good to recover well as means you're able to benefit from mid week sessions!
Made it out for a recovery/ steady run 6 miles today, bit of a panic with the snow looming! we don't get too bothered by the snow usually hopefully we only get a little dusting!
Cotswold, faster recovery is usually a benefit of better fitness, so you've done well!
As for me. Well, I remained true to my cutback week plans. It took a couple of days to recover from the 20 miler last Sunday, but I took Monday off, as I usually do and trained for less time and distance and easier than usual for the rest of the week. I still kept the usual ratio for the distance of the runs, though, with the mid-week medium-long run (10 miles) and Sunday long run (15). However, at the end of the mid-week run, i felt my right Achilles being a little tender. On Thursday I ran super easy, mindful of the achilles, which was still somewhat tender, but I was still able to run without compromising form. Anxious to give time to rest and recover, I took off friday and Saturday. On Sunday I debated whether or not I should run and decided to run, but to take a route that would allow me to cut it short if need be. I headed out and everything was fine, clicking along nicely. Until mile 13. It started feeling sore. I eased up, but at mile 14 it was worse. Still a mile from home, I didn't want to stop and walk, as it was below freezing with a biting wind. I pushed on...
Today I woke up with a limp... I don't know if this has scuppered my marathon plans.
I don't know what has caused this. I've been very sensible with the build up, other than weekly MP runs I've avoided intensity, too. No hill work either. This is out of the blue! Unexpected, unwanted and very upsetting!
Well I didn't get my massage today - my masseur called in sick. Bah. But I've rebooked for Wednesday. It's a bit close to the half but eh, never mind.
Cal... good luck with that half. Hopefully the weather will pick up in time... London looks ok for the weekend. I'm thinking that my Newport Half is more likely than not to be cancelled. Lot of snow forecast Thursday - Friday, and much of the route is on paved footpath through the countryside, so won't be routinely gritted. Hard to see it being safe to run it unless the forecast warm-up happens 24hrs earlier than they are currently predicting.
Just to add to the question of how I approach the Manchester run. I think one of the biggest issues is that I can't just set off and see how it goes because I would need to decide "to taper or not taper" long in advance. If I do taper and get to half way and find I'm not on for a PB, then I've probably blown it... because I'll have had 2/3 weeks of sub-optimal training. But if I DO taper and find myself going well at half way, I'm going to think that my race will be compromised by having had no taper... and would be better to save myself for Newport.
So... 90% sure, I'll not taper, so wont hunt a pb. Just need to work out whether to just go MP+10% MP+20% - or do something like MP+20% then the last few miles at MP... probably many more options.
Sol hope the issue isn't too much concern.
Cal Wednesday will be fine for the massage, I prefer mine on a Mon/Tues before a Sunday race too. Have you set any targets? (weather permitting)
Northender.. been watching Cambridge forecast too, heavy snow tomorrow and light snow on Friday.
Being optimistic forecast heavy snow tomorrow and light snow on Friday in Cambridge, won't let it affect me either way.
No snow in Hertford/ Stevenage yet so went out for 7 miles alternate sub 9 and 8 min miles doing the faster ones in 7.40, 7.20 and 6.40 and felt comfortable. Good confidence booster if I can run on Sunday.
Hows the snow affecting everyone else?