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P&D Autumn Marathon 2017
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I agree with you regarding the taper. I did a Future Learn course on Endurance Performance earlier in the year & the research showed that for running the optimum taper was shorter than for swimming. It should also be an exponential decay starting about 2 weeks out I seem to remember.
Cheers for the link Spoons. Great read.
Thanks for reposting the list AWC. Not sure how well I'm going to do at Snowdon as not really done any marathon specific training so 3:30 may be optimistic now.
Last VO2 for me tonight, the long one, did the 3 x 1 mile at 5K pace with a 2:15 break between each - paces 6.38, 6.37, 6.34 were pretty encouraging.
SQ - I've got the big double MP sessions coming up next Wednesday. Hope the moving is going OK. I really hate moving.
Spoon - Like'd that article, thanks. I particularly like the idea there is no secret to his training, just hard work and consistency. It reminds me a bit of the simple formula for become world champ 2x7x52x10.
I agreed about the short taper. I've scheduled a 10 day taper this time around. The thing about the P&D 3 week taper is that the first week is still pretty long, with a tune up race at the end of it, so it's just a notch back from the peak weeks. It's not like it's just 3 weeks of short, easy running. I agree that a 3 week taper is probably good if you're pushing more mileage than you have before.
Good luck on Sunday Tom. Fingers crossed the forecast improves.
Brilliant report Reg! Like others have mentioned I found parts of it hilarious but the overall feeling is one of a massive achievement so very well done again. Really looking forward to seeing how you get on at Abo.
I agree that 3 weeks is too long for a taper. Surely you would loose some fitness during that length of time? I guess, as with all these things, it is very much down to the individual, their experience, how training has gone etc. It will be 2 weeks-10 days for me.
Another easy run this morning. I'm feeling much better and raring to go on Sunday. Fingers crossed the weather isn't as bad as forecast!
Hope everyone has a good weekend!
NE - Nice session!
Tom - Good luck at Cardiff, fingers crossed for good weather.
Spoons - That's a great article! Consistency is king, I like that!
Agree on the taper discussion, I found 3 weeks for my ultra to be too long and I got to the start line feeling like I had lost fitness. P&D works I think as the first week of taper is still high mileage, but finding what works for you is the key. I think I saw/heard somewhere that Kipchoge was having a 8 day taper or something like that.
Good of luck this weekends runners & pacers.
SQ, hope the move has gone smoothly.
HA, getting to run with the car must be a hilight.
John, enjoy Shanghai. Wouldn't fancy running there myself.
good luck to all those racing and getting their last long runs in. It's starting to get close to taper time for many now. I have moved to a 2 week taper but the last week being very light on mileage.
Ive just been ticking along fitting in runs where possible. Managed 8 with 4 at HM pace on Tuesday which was tough but puts a decent line in the sand for the Gosport Half in November (my next target race)
Wont be getting many miles in this weekend as am off to a wedding in Basildon (on my 40th Birthday!,) Will have a go at Bushy parkrun on the way up for my last ever run in the V35 category.
Great report Reg. Very stressful before the race even started!
Nice work on the VO2 session NE, you know it’s close when you get to that one.
All this talk of the dangers of tapering isn’t doing my paranoia much good
Interesting article though Jooligan. As others have said with P&D the first week of taper is still pretty intense, it’s not like you suddenly drop right down. I think the key is keeping some faster stuff, not dropping down to solely easy running.
Good luck Tom, SQ and anyone else racing/pacing this weekend.
I like the description of tapering as peaking - the vo2max sessions give gains on a shorter timescale (7-10 days or so) than the typical 3 week aerobic development lead time. A ramped up aerobic system is much better at clearing up waste after vo2 work too, so it makes sense to have that peaked out to make the most of the vo2 side. My feeling is that 3 weeks is about right with the right mix of work so that you arrive at race day with neuro-muscular systems primed and good range of motion from the vo2 work at the same time as all your aerobic gains are amassed.
It is individual though - really does depend on where your aerobic development is at, what sort of responder you are, etc. I don't throw myself into the overtraining category and like to keep fairly fresh. I find 2 weeks works very well for me for a half, ideally with a 10k 2 weeks out, a 5k a week out, and then hill sprints around 5 days before the race, and reducing mileage over that period. I was quite pleased to see the article confirmed what I've discovered about myself.
Good luck to everyone in their running and racing this weekend !
One thing I have decided is that my next Ironman will be a Kona attempt and it will be me travelling alone, probably to Bolton or Wales. Before all that I intend to focus on being a runner for a while. Club 5//10k on Sunday and I am weighing up which to do and how hard to do it. I reckon the 10k at MP is favourite. Did 9.5 miles today with some mud and hills and the legs were ok but definitely not fresh.
All this talk of tapering and I am just starting my marathon training plan. I am probably not going to taper at all. I see Abingdon as a bit of a free hit and a chance to experiment. I basically had this week to recover, then two weeks to put in some quality and the a final week of just playing it safe.
In terms of sessions I am thinking I need some speed. I've done nothing but aerobic running so I don't want to go out and do LT runs or VO2 max stuff, seems too risky with my hamstring. I like the sound of the 1km intervals that Kipchoge fella was doing so perhaps I'll do those as part of a longish run, rather than blocks at MP.
I guess there's not much you can gain in 3 weeks.
Tom... good luck on Sunday. I've been wistful about missing the Cardiff Half this year... but not feeling quite so bad about it now. I don't quite know why
reg: fantastic performance - Kona isn't that far away by the sounds of it. Great report and really enjoyed the pee part!!!
Final 22 mile long run this morning @8:25/mi. Feeling good and finished with the last couple of miles at marathon pace. Let the taper begin!!!
17:27 and 3rd place at parkrun this morning
Really pleased, especially as it was a bit breezy and wet, which made some sections slightly slippery. I was beaten by an U-14 who ran the parkrun all-time record for his age group, 16:42! 
Spoons - awesome PB, your consistency is just amazing and just need to keep it under control next week to smash 80 mins.
AWC - great way to finish the training block and nice MP section as well.
Things I've noticed from running in Shanghai 1. electric mopeds have more accident potential to runners than any other vehicle, particularly when traffic laws are optional 2. Walking backwards is the new exercise fad, no idea what benefits it gives but lots of seniors doing it on running tracks 3. Running here is more spread across all age and social demographics than anywhere I've been, it's refreshing not to see the usual types you get in Sydney. 4. Will be an interesting experiment to see if the heat here gives any benefit in 2 weeks, it felt like bloody hard work today.
Last LR and did 4 laps of a park along with the locals. Nice flat and wide path and plenty of others to chase down. Even got photoed a few times as a local group was there, no doubt they'll wonder who is the dripping mess when they share the photos (high 20s and 80% humidity). Finished 12 miles @ 7:08m/m with last 5k at MP. Then had to catch the subway back in morning traffic, must have been pleasant for those standing nearest to me! Think I'll stick to the gym tomorrow to make the most of aircon.
Agree with you on hazards of electric mopeds John.
More fun & games for me yesterday with a parkrun en route to the Black Mountains Fell Race: 17.2M with 4,800ft of climbing. I was 18th of 55 in 3:31. The winner completed it in 2:52 & 2nd place was 3:00 both over 20 minutes slower than their 2014 times (when they were 1st & 3rd) due to the conditions. It was cloudy on the tops, wet & windy everywhere, muddy underfoot, slippery & treacherous but a great day out.
Pic of me coming to the finish - I was the only fool wearing nothing but a vest & shorts. Most had long sleeves & many had full waterproofs on!
Tom... great time. Aggravating to have the stitch problem. The weather near me was actually surprisingly good. Same in Cardiff?
Fast LR John.
I got out for only my second run of the week. Taking this taper seriously! Against advice from the book, I extended it a bit... aiming to do 13 to reach twenty for the week, but finished on 15.5 miles, mainly steady/slow... but with a three at MP+10%. Actually, I did 9.5 whilst my little one was at a party, then picked her up, drove her home, then straight out again after a 40 minute break and it sort of didn't feel worth trotting round for 3.5... hence the added miles.
Good work on the pace SQ and Joe.
Jools - Nice pice. Sounds like a great race, well done.
John - Good work on getting the long run done. Sounds tough.
Good last LR from AWC too.
Nice taper NE.
Nothing much for me over the weekend, just an easy 7ish with strides on Sat while the kids were at dancing. Tried out the new Hokas. They're pretty good but not as soft as I thought they'd be. They didn't feel much different in terms of cushioning to other shoes I've got but they're light and feel fastish. Maybe I'd feel the difference over a long run or maybe it's just that I'm pretty light on my shoes anyway so don't make the most of all that cushioning.
AWC - Nice long run!
18 mile on Saturday for me then another 11 Sunday, seems strange that I'm not tapering as only just got back into the longer runs!! Anyway switching it around a bit today and doing the 9 with 3*1600m on Sunday during an 8 mile race!
Nice HM Tom, without the stitch I guess it's not a million miles from your best.
Nice long run AWC, sounds promising but can people stop tapering please as I haven't started training yet.
Spoons - You're in a rich vein of form now, make the most of it and enjoy the PBs whilst they come so regularly. Sub 17 could be on your radar soon.
Nice fell racing Jooligan.
Had a bit of an easy post IM week with just a couple of runs but I decided to enter the club 5k/10k champs on Sunday evening. I knew the standard would be poor so I couldn't resist turning up and getting another trophy for the awards do in a week or so.
We weren't allowed to wear watches and had to predict our times. Plan was to do the 10k at PMP but I got caught up racing the 5k winner so went through the first 5k in 18:30, actually beating the 5k winner and then cruised the last 5k at around 6:30 pace. Legs were ok but I can't see them doing 26 miles at 6:15 pace.
Nice final LR John. I used to see a group of older Asian ladies walking backwards around Shoreditch Park quite often, so it’s clearly a thing!
Great HM Tom, despite the stitch. It’s always so frustrating when you are feeling good and then you start to feel a stitch developing.
Well done on the fell race Jooligan, great photo.
Sure the extra mileage won’t hurt NE, hope you’re feeling good ready for Chester.
Philip - I despise hills so avoid them to be honest. I do try to do some hill sprints sometimes (something like 8x12s) just for leg strength though. I think in a Marathon Talk interview Pfitzinger said he should add more hill workouts to Advanced Marathoning if he did a 3rd edition.
Solid weekend of mileage SteveMac.
Thanks Reg, trying not to think too much about future targets yet - don’t want to count my chickens! I’ve got to nail my HM and 10M times first
Well done on the win(s?) 
12 miles along the canal yesterday felt very short for a Sunday, but was handy as I could squeeze it in between the Grand Prix and the Great Scottish Run. A gentle recovery five this morning chatting with SQ, legs feeling good as the mileage drops down. However I’ve been a bit snotty since I got back so I fear I may have picked up a cold from my nephews. Doesn’t seem too bad currently, just a blocked nose and a vague headache, so fingers crossed it doesn't develop and will be gone by Sunday.
Afternoon all.
Great Fell race Jooligan and nice photo!
Excellent long runs from John, Steve and AWC.
Hope the taper is going well NE.
Nice post IM racing Reg. I wouldn't worry about training for Abo as you are clearly incredibly fit at the moment. Once you are fully recovered you should be ready for a bit of fine tuning and nothing more before the race. As mentioned many weeks ago, if you are setting off at 6:15 pace then I may well be on your shoulder!
Take it easy now Spoons-I'm expecting you to smash that sub 80 on Sunday the form you're in!
A 6 mile plod for me this morning. Legs a bit sore but not too bad. Cant work out the stitch and why I'm getting them frequently now when I never used to. Very frustrating as It spoilt what would have been a very good race/time for me yesterday (conditions turned out to be pretty good in the end if a little humid) and has me concerned about similar problems at Abo. I'm not overly confident about running well there anyway because of what happened in London so this was the last thing I needed in the build up. Probably best not to think about it but easier said than done..
Have you tried varying what you eat/drink in the morning or at least the timing of it? Perhaps you're eating too close to the race or something or maybe it's an erratic breathing pattern?