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P&D Spring Marathon 2018
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No run for me today. My first day off running since Christmas day. I just felt completely wiped out today with no energy. Probably a combination of pushing too hard in yesterday's 17 miler and a stomach bug. I probably could have shuffled through 6 miles but as I am tapering there didn't seem any point.
My nephew wanted to go out at about 8 min pace for a couple of miles, then to accelerate with the hope (not expectation) of achieving 3:19:59. So I accompanied him those miles at 7:55 pace, then I wished him well and dropped back to around 8:35 pace. I shouted at Spoons just coming out of the Altrincham loop - and shouted to three different Toms who looked to be on a similar pace. I also saw my nephew looking great and worked out he was 14 minutes ahead of me, so just about on 3:20 pace.
At half way (1:51) I decided I should slow down a bit more and went back to 8:50 pace - but still now calculating that that would allow myself to have a fast finish for a crack at 3:45 (stupid, I know!).
All along, I was high-fiving kids... and seven members of my family (who'd really come to support my nephew) - thanking lots of marshals... and drinking lots more water than normal. At mile 20, I decided to use a portaloo - first time I've done that in a race. Maybe it's my age!
At mile 23, I decided to try a mile at 7.37 MP (GFA)... and actually achieved 7.46. Then eased back for a mile, then at the 25 mile mark, I upped it again and achieved 7.37 this time, and 7.13 pace for the final .21m... In the end, I was just under 3:46, an average of 8:37 which (rather coincidentally) is exactly 60s faster than my target MP for Newport. I was pretty comfortable throughout and pleased I threw in that fast bit at the end, but right now, it feels a very big ask to achieve that for all 26 miles! I'm still thinking my form is back to my PB 3:24 pace (7.47m/m).
Finally found that my nephew had gone 3:14. Those suggesting he was sandbagging have perhaps forgotten how difficult it is to guess how they'll deal with the fabled last six miles of a marathon for the very first time!
Great day. Nice weather. Good atmosphere. Today I'm a bit stiff. Did probably take out a bit too much out of myself - and ankle grumbling slightly - but I'm guessing that 3 weeks taper should sort me out. Let it begin!
Heating up next week just in time for VLM?
NE - Nice review. Kudos to your nephew, that's a great debut marathon time. Will he do another? Nicely paced by yourself too, recover well and it looks good for Newport.
Easy 6 mile recovery today. Quads a bit sore, but hoping that shakes them out ahead of tomorrows MLR!
Macca, solid GFA in the bag. Nice to see there were toilets there. When I did it, back in 2009, most were just doing their business in the bushes or the start pens. Enjoy the rest of your time in Paris.
Tom, gutted that you were disappointed with a 2.46. I think that TR (long time no see) gives some good advice on how to make the most of your very solid training.
NE, sounds like a great family performance all round.
Steve, congrats on the half PB. At that level it’s a decent chunk to take off.
JB, impressive 1/ 2 placing over the weekend. Agreed that wave starts are a pain.
My virus seems to be on the way out. Managed to get a few short runs in over the weekend. My time off doesn’t seem to have help to ease up any of the niggles. A handy physio appointment seems to have got to the bottom of the recurring calf niggles which I keep suffering from. A lack of ankle mobility from a rugby injury I suffered back in 2010. Just hope my body can rejuvenate itself in time for London
Thanks again everyone
Reg I’m not generally a super-emotional person, but I just couldn’t help it on Sunday!
Thanks Joe yeah I’m definitely eager to keep pushing and see how far I can progress. Hopefully given the big chunks I’m still taking off PBs I have more to come. For now though I’m busy trying to beat my PB for most weight gained the week after a marathon
Congrats on the 1st and 2nd at the weekend.
OuchOuch I’ve no intention to race London. My legs are very fatigued - definitely suffering with Tuesday legs today, and my quads are very sore. Aside from the physical side of things, there's no way I'd be ready mentally for another effort like that. I really have to psyche myself up for a big race, and I am not up for going through it again so soon.
FBT the only complaint comes from how close it is to the Champs qualifying time (and Berlin auto-qualification). Luckily Frankfurt is within the 2019 window for both of those, so hopefully I can get it there.
Thought you’d been quiet Jooligan, congrats on the parkrun.
Congrats on the PB Steve. That’s a decent chunk at that level, especially given no taper!
Sensible to take it easy Ramjet, hope you feel better soon.
Great report NE, sounds like a fun day.
Glad you’re feeling better Millsy. Sounds like a positive result at the physio too.
What are peoples thoughts on sports massage to aid recovery? Given how soon London is, I’m tempted to give it a go if it will help, although I’m afraid of how painful it might be!? While my main aim is to just enjoy London, I have to admit that given I was happily doing solo 24 mile long runs at sub-3 pace in the middle of massive mileage weeks, part of me is tempted to head out at sub-3 pace at London…
Steve: congratulations on the PB despite making it tough for yourself.
NE: great report & sounds like a fun way to run a marathon. Must try it sometime.
Steady 12M today.
Afternoon all.
NE-Fantastic report of what sounded like a great day all round. Super marathon debut from your nephew and good prep race for Newport for yourself. I like the idea of running a marathon with no time pressure and more fun so will be doing just that in Newport if I fancy it in 3 weeks.
Spoons-I would think a massage would be a good idea in a few days time. Then you will be ready for a casual sub-3 in London. Hope you have celebrated well in the last 48 hours!
Thanks everyone for the encouragement/well wishes/advice-all taken on board and beginning to digest it all. I have had a bit of time to reflect and have written a brief report:
I wanted to try something different in this race so made a plan to go out at a sensible pace (not even attempting a PB) with a view to picking it up if I felt good in the latter stages. I was hoping to run 1:21 for the first half and something similar in the second -perhaps quicker if everything went really well. 2:43 was the time I had in mind as a nominal target. Conditions could not have been any better and I was feeling confident and excited on the start line where I met Spoons and had a nice little chat with him before the gun. Off we went and immediately I was having to hold back as the adrenaline kicked in and I was wanting to go a stride quicker. First mile 6:05 so a bit quick but feeling easy so told myself to slow right down. I was pleased to see the second mile come in at 6:17-much more like it. I was in a nice group of 4 or 5 and I was focusing on staying relaxed and just biding my time as the miles ticked over. The crowd support was great and I was really enjoying myself, feeling controlled and strong through to halfway in 1:21:33-perfect! The next part of the race was ok-I had no problems with stitches like I've had before-my nutrition plan of 4 gels and water seemed to be working and I was still confident that I could push on-but not yet-still holding back until the last 10k. Got to 20 miles in 2:04 and it is the best I have felt at that stage in a marathon of the 4 I have done so far. Now it was time to pick up the pace and give it everything I had left in the tank! Unfortunately my legs weren't playing ball and at 21 miles they seemed to stop working properly. They became very painful and try as hard as I could I was unable to get them to go any faster! I was still with it-not lightheaded or dizzy and I still felt ok in myself but the damage was done and I was being passed now as my pace dropped off into the 6:40/6:50 range. By mile 25 I just wanted to get to the finish. I nearly stopped but knew that if I did I would probably cramp up and struggle to get going again. At last the finish was in sight and my legs were almost buckling under me as I shuffled along the home straight. Once I knew 2:45 was gone I didn't even try to raise a pathetic sprint so just ambled over the line in 2:46:06. Spoons was waiting at the finish and my first thought was for him and wanting to know if he had got the 2:45 he thoroughly deserved. It was great to share his success there and I wasn't disappointed with my performance then-just relieved to have finished really-but now looking back I don't really know what I could have done differently on the day. Even running at a slower pace didn't stop the dramatic fade at the end. 42:xx for the last 10k was not what I had in mind!! Back to the drawing board with the marathon then. I probably will run Newport in 3 weeks if I feel up for it closer to the time but I wont be doing one in the Autumn. My legs were agony on Sunday afternoon/night and very sore yesterday. Signs of improvements today so hopefully the recovery won't be too long.
The event itself is fantastic-I highly recommend it now they have sorted the problems from 2 years ago. Fast, flat with brilliant support. Sunday was perfect for a fast time but unfortunately, I tried my best and gave it everything, it wasn't my day.
Great effort at Paris, Macca. Whilst not a slow course, I don’t think it an easy one either. Can’t imagine scaling the Eiffel Tower the next day. Impressive! My wife did a piss in the middle of the Champs Elysee - classy.
Sorry you’re disappointed, Tom. That is still a great time. Good report and it reads as big a great race for the vast majority. Don’t really know what to say: another gel? Less mileage at MP in training? Either way a great effort and I wish you the best for a really enjoyable Newport.
Spoons I’d say go for a sports massage if you want to help increase recovery for London. But it will be ridiculously painful! I honestly wouldn’t bother if you just want to cruise sub 3 (which will be cruising for you!). I think there is a lot to be said for letting the body do its own thing at times - especially if it is not actually injured.
Well done, NE. Looking strong for Newport. Great work high fiving the crowd.
Ridiculously impressive du, Joe. Great run speeds and a hell of a result with a puncture! Better to get it out the way now...
Hell of an active week, Jooligan. Nice parkrun first finisher as well. What’s the skiing actually like?
SteveMac sounds like great pacing to me - well done. So frustrating when you’re caught between groups.
Good decision, Ramjet. No doubt too help in a couple of weeks.
Went out for 9 with strides. Couldn’t quite be bothered with strides and misjudged distances from the new house so ended up with 10M easy. Feeling a bit tired. Final session tomorrow - an open topped sandwich.
8 miles with strides for me. Sometimes I feel like I'm cruising along and some times I feel like I'm banging the ground with every stride. Today was the latter but never mind.
Steve - forgot to say congrats on the PB, great performance and liked the full on sprint photo.
Millsy - good to hear you’re back on track for VLM.
SQ - you’re putting together an impressive final few runs, I love it when a plan comes together!
Finished my LRs with 18m including a fast finish (5k in 20:28) on Sunday, hard work although it was off the back of the 10k the day before. Just daily plods since then and 3x1m tomorrow, then off to Tokyo for a few days before hitting London midweek. Despite my summer training, not sure how I feel about westy’s weather prediction! I would love to have the conditions in Manchester.
Well done Macca, still a great time.
Sounds like a great day out NE. Good luck with the 3 week turnaround, sounds you still had plenty in the tank so hopefully will pull up ok.
Awesome run Spoon. Really impressive and thoroughly deserved. I agree with others saying there are probably still some big chunks to take off. I'd be interested to hear what you thought about your preparation this time on a different program, compared to the P&D approach. Was it much of a change?
Tom - tough again mate. Really gutted for you. Not a bad time again but not the race you'd hoped for. I know you've got that sub 2:40 in you. Like others have said, maybe a change in training might help. Fill up a few empty buckets or something.
Spoons, I forgot about qualification time (with me being so far off it i dont think about them) - yes that is a bit of shame ! hope you smash the next one.
Westy I thought the last 2 Londons were quite warm! but may be mistaken! People might have forgotten how to run with some warmth! Its been a long cold winter.
Westy - I found it pretty hot last two years, but I’m a wuss when it comes to heat. Looking at the forecast, I genuinely might try to get in a sauna in advance.
John - thank you, although the small mater of running the race before we can decide if the plan has come together! You have been so consistent can’t wait to see how you get on.
Final session for me today: the open-topped sandwich. WU, Drills, 10 mins MP pace at 1:37 a lap. HR just right but it feels too hard and ambitious. 8 x 2 mins hard at 5:40-5:55 pace. WD. About 9M at 7m/m in total. Seemed to be another strong headwind for half a lap. Good practice, I suppose.
Macca: well done on securing GFA again
NE: nice report and good discipline to hold back on the pace. Your nephew did fantastic to run that time in his first marathon. He could be a very fast runner.
Millsy: glad to hear the virus is on the way out. Should be well gone by the time London comes round
Tom: fantastic time regardless of what you were aiming for.
John: great LR after a 10km the day before
3x1,600m session for me tonight which is the final hard session ahead of London. Not going to try anything spectacular at this stage. Will just head down to the loacl park and do a few mile repeats. It's been nice being on holiday for some of the taper as it's taken my mind away from focusing on the race too much. Unfortunately I've put on a few pounds with all the eating out
AWC - Always good to take your mind off things during taper.
SQ - Nice final session there! You look to be in good form.
11 mile MLR done. Started easy 9:30 first mile and finished with just under an 8:00 for the last mile. Averaged 8:40s, nice run, decent weather and was getting light when I finished!!
Bad luck on the duathlon puncture Joe - might have been a first place without that. Well done on the parkrun also. Just found your latest blog - good writing as always.
Sounds like the rest of your trip to Scotland compensated a bit for the 5k Jools.
Hope you enjoyed your (wise) rest day ramjet. Impressive streak.
Good to hear you are feeling better Millsy. Hmm - maybe it is the sort of joint niggle that needs a bit of moving to keep things well lubricated - have that with my right knee (ACL repair 11 years ago).
Travel well JohnOz - nice LR.
Lovely session SQ - was just looking at it on Strava.
Nice to hear you had a good holiday AWC. I have the same intervals today - sound like hard work.
Nice MLR SteveMac - you seem to be recovering well from the weekend.
Westy: none of that warm stuff next Sunday please..
Just a gentle 6 miler for me yesterday evening, the standard hilly route with one other from my Tuesday group. Perfect running weather - cool and fresh after a rain shower earlier in the day. Could do with that on race day. We caught up on race plans for the summer - was a bit relieved that we won't be entering a team in the regional hill racing series as I won't have any pressure to participate to ensure we get the three finishers like last year. Can pick and mix my races better.
Out in a bit for the 3 x 1 mile reps - its a bit windy today and I haven't done any intervalls of that length so far so it could be interesting. Note to self: a beep on the watch doesn't mean blast off like an idiot!
Hazel: good luck with the intervals - especially in the wind. I always like this sessions as the legs are beginning to freshen up a bit.
Last speedwork session before VLM tonight - 3x1mi intervals. Splits were 5:59/6:00/5:59. Pretty happy with that as that is 10s/mi faster than my 5km pace.
AWC - speedy reps and great that you did them so much faster than 5k pace. I did the same today - 5:56/5:58/5:56, so consistent but did feel like hard work on grass.
Hazel - good luck with your go at this workout, you know you’ve reached the business end of P&D when you do this one!
Great reps AWC. Would agree that the legs are starting to feel fresher.
I was a bit sceptical going into this session due to the length of the individual reps but I got on well with it. 7:01, 7:01, 7:01. Can't get any more constant than that.. Similar pace to the 1000m reps a couple of weeks ago, but slower than the 600m ones last week.
Hmm - should I admit I did 1600m rather than a mile? Couldn't be arsed to fiddle with the watch to change to miles.. ! I like doing speedwork as it gets me to really focus on what I'm doing. Bit windy (always is on intervalls day somehow) so I picked a route up and down a drainage ditch with crosswinds rather than head and tail wind.
You made it sound so enjoyable NE, hopefully you go the balance right and it acts as good training for Newport
Pleased to hear the virus is on the way out, hopefully you can start to put some consistent miles together agin
Tom: atleast you now what to work on based on the fade, more longer runs and probably at a slower pace. It is weird how you were feeling so good though and then it just changed but guess that's marathon's for you
The pace from that last mp session will feel easier come race day SQ
Judging by those mile splits I'd say you've got a fair chunk to come off of your 5km pb if you train for it AWC
Hazel that is consistency for you!
Gym session yesterday followed by 40mins in the evening. Think will just tick over until the physio next week