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P&D Spring Marathon 2018
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A very easy 8ish miles with strides done. Considering a progression on a hilly loop tonight.
Big session Phil. I’d agree with others that if that pace is your target and you run 11M solo in training, it is time for some goal creep. See you at Wokingham.
Hazel I also find myself losing time on 180 turns. Acceleration is poor.
Andy I’d vote for following the up to 55 but adding in an extra recovery - but ask meeting a close eye on both plans to see if you feel you’ll make the jump.
HA any return of hills and tempo in the pipeline?
A morning off running for me. Got to stay late for a play at school tonight so will treat myself to a MLR at 4pm. Maybe even a few minutes of daylight! Brief gym session earlier with some heavy (but still weakling level compared to the rowers and sprinters around me) compound lifts.
Congrats on the 10K Hazelnut. I did Frankfurt last year, personally I don’t mind the course - I’ll take flat and dull over hilly but beautiful.
Welcome to the world of working from home Macca. Personally I love it, although I can be quite antisocial at times so it suits me. I find running helps my routine as needing to get out the door for a run means I’m up, awake, and ready to start work. Whereas if I’m not running, I find it much harder to get going in the morning.
Hope to see you at Pitchcroft too Muddy. Great half time given you weren’t at your best.
Amazing hard tempo Phil, very rapid. Almost missed it in between the hutch cleaning and dentist appointment! I agree with the others, if you can do that in training…
Great tempo SQ.
No miscalculation from me AWC, that was SQ. My painful miscalculation will probably come at the weekend when I go out at PB pace!
I know what you mean about treading water, although I have Telford coming up I’m quite looking forward to getting stuck in to marathon training.
Andy - personally if you’re already happily ticking off 50 mpw I’d try the 55-70 plan. You can always drop back if you find it is too much. Just watch the pace - make sure easy days are easy so you aren’t spent for the harder workouts.
Add me to the list of those who hate 180s.
Andy I would not lower your training just to fit in with a plan if you are already coping well with the mileage you are doing. It takes such a long time to gain fitness and is quick to drop off so unless you are feeling tired I wouldn't want to step back. There was an old adage in the long distance cycling world of "the more you train, the more you can train."
ML, I listened to a podcast about a month ago with an interview from a guy called Jonathon Beverly and a lot of what he said made sense so I bought his book "Your Best Stride" and took quite a lot from it. It was mainly about running posture and the importance of running from your hips and glutes rather than from the quads and calves which in the past has lead to me getting injured a lot. In summary my take away points were:
Try to run (and walk about in daily life) with neutral hips, not tilted back like most do which leads to sitting on our heels a lot more. By this I try to imagine pushing your bum down a little and the front of your pelvis up which makes it more level. He uses the phrase "not spilling water from the pelvic bowl".
Have a slight lean which is typical of all the elite runners, but this needs to be done at the ankles rather than the hips. When this is done it almost feels like you are falling forward with all the running happening behind you rather than infront which is where the propulsion happens. It just seems to make you run faster and easier. It is very hard to feel right as you are both lifting your hips up at the front and leaning in at the same time. It does feel great though when it works.
This leads to the feeling of running from your hips and glutes which are the powerful muscles. It naturally makes you run with your feet under you more rather than overstriding with your feet in front. He has a large section on stretching your hip flexes as most peoples are shortened which limits how much your can drive behind, as well as really strengthening glutes as this is were a lot of the power comes from.
Sorry for the rambling and certainly hope some of it makes sense.
Spoons: Apologies for that! I get you two confused because all your runs are in the same place on Strava
10 miles this morning just to keep the legs ticking over - legs are a bit tired after racing on Sunday and intervals on Monday night!
As regards paces, I find MP + 20% a real struggle mentally. It feels so sluggish and it seems to take ages to get anywhere. That's a bit lame though, and I am going to try to be more disciplined. It's just that MP + 10-12% has been my default easy run pace since long before I even knew what MP stood for, and it's going to take a bit of effort to adjust.
I certainly won't be cutting back miles. I think I am going to end up somewhere between the 2 plans. I would like to take on the 55-70 plan, but I don't think I can jump right in. Although I am going ok on 50 mpw now, a further jump to 60-70 mpw would represent a very steep increase on where I was just a few months ago. But maybe it will start to seem doable after a few more weeks.
Afternoon all.
As others have mentioned I think the 55-70 week plan would be most suitable for your requirements Andy. Listen to the good advice about easy miles. I'm still learning but I have improved when it comes to running slower!
That was a rapid session the other day Phil! Time to think of a new target I reckon if you can knock that pace out in a training solo run.
Most impressive HM time Muddy particularly as you were not at your best. Bath half might well be my 'A' race in the Spring.
Well done on the 10k Hazel. I'm not sticking to the daily beer as in the calendar as I don't tend to drink during the week (except in School hols obviously!) but I got a good head start in at the weekend by getting through to number 7 and will gladly catch up for days missed this weekend.
Glad you forgot to mention the cricket in your previous post HA. It looks like a whitewash might well be on the cards. This English team is simply not good enough-we are making you lot look like world beaters which is far from the case. Good to see you have been making the most of your recent change of circumstances. I'm sure it will all work out for you in the long run........pardon the unintentional pun!
Nice tempo SQ and enjoy the School play-Christmas one I guess? I'm a dress rehearsal and 2 performances away from ending another year of Nativity production hell. We have been at it since October!!
I had some time this morning so was able to run in daylight for the first time in 3 weeks-lucky me! Got 16 miles in at 6:20 pace. Really enjoyed the chance to look around a bit and take in the countryside rather than staring at the ground in front constantly in fear of ice/potholes! It was actually quite mild out.....but as somebody mentioned a few pages back......winter is coming!
16mi this morning in just over 2hrs. Another day off work. I love not going to work.
Just Phil's run obviously stands out but I was half expecting him to do another one in the afternoon like HA did.
Re the dropping mileage to the plan; I think it's important to remember that those plans are not the 'right answer' but merely examples that follow principles. Hence there are different mileage options. It would be folly to stick strictly to it when it doesn't fit with your current mileage.
Post XC I thought I would have a foot problem but in fact the pain I experienced seems to have freed things up somewhat. Sadly I do have a calf strain from the same race so I've not run since.
Interesting stuff on the form, Phil. I actually started to try and do the lean thing but it's easy to forget and just run after a few outings.
Well done on your third place Joe.
I've just realised I'm reaching the tipping point of mentions that would necessitate me mentioning everything so I'll shut up now.
6 mile plod this evening at a new slower easy pace. Less uncomfortable than expected, though had to concentrate quite a bit.
So, I've got to push my bum down and my willy up?
I've tried the "thrust and lean" type approach. I definitely go faster and it feels great when I get the balance right - But I find my heart rate goes up significantly too and ultimately I'm going faster but putting more effort in and I find I don't keep up the good technique and pace for very long.
My gut feel is I must be using underused muscles when I thrust and lean... so it's inefficient... and if I persevered, it would improve.
Does that sound plausible Phil?
When I get it right I can feel the glutes working and on the park run PB on Saturday I actually felt real fatigue in my glutes when previously it was always my quads that fatigued.
It definitely requires concentration especially when getting tired which ironically is when you need it the most.
I say all this while in no way being an expert or physiologist and could of course be taking complete rubbish.
Good tempos from SQ and NE and fast 16 milers from Tom and Westy.
Slightly sub-par 9 with 4 @ LT for me this morning. Tempo miles were around 6:25. They were closer to 6:00 in the summer. Hopefully the only way is up from here.
6mi easy jog for me later. Winter starts tonight for us poms. Brrrr.
I just hope you and Westy keep that mantra in your heads when running. Maybe you could get it printed on a shirt?
Good work with the LT Ramjet. Always tough to start with.
SQ - You're right I should start some of the hills and tempo sessions, they're good ones. To be honest I've meant to do the session but mainly I've just been a bit soft and can't be bothered really hurting myself at the moment. Also with the work situation my schedule has been a bit out from the normal and I've been focussing on getting more long runs in.
Tom - I've found it pretty disappointing the past few Ashes series how badly both teams struggle away from home. It seems pretty standard for test cricket nowadays though.
Work situation has improved somewhat, with me probably staying on here into mid Jan, which will at least give me a chance to find work into the new year.
I went out last night and did a progressive 9 miles 6 times around a hilly loop. As I've been doing recently I didn't look at my pace throughout the run and purposely did a hilly session I've not done before so I wouldn't worry too much above the pace. Felt pretty sluggish to start with but worked into it well with each loop faster.
I do agree with the hip flexor stretches and glute strengthening/activating. That and calf stretches are what seem to keep me ticking over at the moment.
Great tempo and nice segment crown, HA. Good LT from ramjet as well.
13M MLR yesterday afternoon. Lovely to see some daylight for a few minutes! The pace seems to be coming wel to me at the moment, for given easy to steady effort. Surprised to see a few sub 7mm last night. Very stiff bum today from the deadlifting. Now the joys of a St John’s First Aid course all day. Happy running everyone.
Macca - There are definite perks to home working, especially on days like today when it's just miserable out and you can spend the day in your slippers. But Hazel is right that it's hard to stay on task, and Spoons when he says it can be anti-social. I fully recommend working from a coffee shop if you have any suitable ones near you. It keeps you away from doing your washing and creates the illusion of spending time with other people.
Hazel - I turned up to my massage lady this week and she loved them. I think they tip over from pink to full on garish so I can get away with it more. They're proper hi-vis pink.. I hear Joe B likes pink shoes too..
Andy - I was just teasing, I think it was a cross-post too. My thoughts on your plan are that you should really take seriously the slowing down advice and wait to see how you get on once you pass your 16m longest run before deciding. That said, I think you'd be ok on the 55-70 plan. I also prefer the 12 week plan.. otherwise I seem to fizzle out a bit.
Phil/Westy - I'll give 'bum down willy up' a try, though it's going to take a little extra imagination for me.
Still no running, but after 2 massages I'm now feeling better overall. Just trying not to eat or drink too much for the silly season. It's a real struggle.
...watch out for the yellow snow.