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P&D Autumn Marathon 2018
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Hazel - great report and fantastic pacing. Sounds like you pretty much got it spot on. Really happy for you, that's a huge PB!
Thanks Reg - bike numbers are definitely highest they've ever been - I've only been doing it properly a couple of years, so hoping to still be on quite a sharp improvement curve.
HA - the walking can take a lot more out of you than you realise; I've definitely found that in the past. Love the false start strategy. That actually sounds like a half decent plan.
Jools - huge week! Good luck for this weekend. Should be a good, tough, day out. What's the forecast looking like?
SQ - I'd front load the week and then race the half after a mini-taper. From what I've seen, you're in great shape, and you don't know when you'll be back in this position. Besides, we do this for fun right, and racing is the fun bit. I'd only say don't do it if you're still feeling ill; I reckon you'll be good by the weekend though.
Had a fairly decent weekend of training after feeling pretty off during the week. Saturday was a longer run (17 miles) alternating blocks of 3 miles @ 6:52mm and 3 miles @ 6:05mm (no recovery). Was a really hard session, but managed to tie it in so I could run the 2nd faster interval at parkrun, which very handily also happens to be Katie's 5km PB pace. She ran 18:50 which was an 18 second PB and was chuffed; things looking good for Chicago.
Sunday, with the horrific weather conditions, there was no chance I was risking falling off my bike and getting injured. So the only options was 5 hours on the turbo. It wasn't fun, but got it done. Also used it as a good chance to get some heat training in, so windows were closed and it quickly turned into an oven. I got through 8 litres of fluid. Ran 40 minutes straight off the bike, and was surprisingly the best I've ever felt after a long bike.
Muddy - fantastic placing and well done on the PB. I like that you’ve left yourself a target for next time out 2:4x ?
SQ - I know you’re not following P&D but if I’m doubt I would go back to it, 20m LR 3 weeks out IIRC. You nailed the half in the spring so I would concentrate on nailing the full.
Top weekend of running and racing Jools.
Joe, 5hrs on the turbo 👏. If you don’t mind me asking what did you do for salt / energy replacement amongst the 8 litres of fluid ?
Well done, muddy! So pleased for you. Brilliant. Shame you missed a congratulatory kiss from Jo Pavey
FIVE hours on the turbo, Joe? Good grief! And congrats to Katie. Fantastic parkrun achievement. She's smashing all her PBs to smithereens. Bet she will fly around that Chicago course.
SQ: I'd be careful with a flat out effort nursing a cold. These things can spread to the heart and cause myocarditis. You really don't want that.
Conflicting advice we have offered: race afficionados (ok addicts
That's a massive weekend's training Joe. Congratulations to Katie - that's some 5K PB. Must be those track sessions you subjected her to. Hope you had a few entertaining movies for that turbo! Don't blame you for erring on the side of caution after your double near death bike scares in Bolton however it turned out lovely here.
A marathon PB off 6 week build-up from a man who renounced marathons a year ago - pretty incredible stuff Muddy. 9th place
Just 5M at lunch today along the canal, so nice & flat. Really pleased with how bouncy the legs felt after such a big w/e. Lovely day for it too: sunny, still & cool. Cycle commute was heaven
Casual PB Muddy, awesome stuff.
Joe - 5 hours!!!! Impressive and insane. You deserve a good race. I'm sure you're far too honest to employ my cheating tactics. I was a very competitive 16 year old at the time. All good signs for Katie. It seems if all goes well a big marathon PB could be on the cards.
SQ - I'd take the doctor's advice, take it easy and make sure you recover. Although I think you must be feeling ok after seeing your effort this morning on strava. I don't think a single session will make any difference to your fitness and the only way it could affect Abingdon is if it contributes to your illness lingering. It's consistency that's important and you've been nailing it every week. You're probably in the form of your life at the moment. I wouldn't be risking overdoing it in the last few weeks. If you're still suffering some effects of a cold, the only reason to race hard is because you'll enjoy it. After telling you to take it easy, I think I'd struggle not to race once the blood is pumping at the start line.
A decent Mona fartlek yesterday but I'm really struggling to do any sort of volume. Was out of action all weekend on a wet and muddy Scout camp with my son. Great fun though.
Muddy - well done on the PB and a well run marathon. Looks like you’ve cracked it and sub 2:50 is calling...
Missd out on Tokyo again so am left with a gap for spring. Only local option is Canberra but it’s a twisty, windy, hilly course so might have to wait until Gold Coast comes round in July. Think I’ll just work on my HM pb in the meantime.
Thanks Jools. I can't wait to see how she gets on. Had a couple of TV shows on the go, but I do actually find it hard to concentrate sometimes and end up missing what's going on. Glad to hear the legs are feeling bouncy.
HA - not sure I'd fancy the scout camp, I'm a terrible camper - right diva. The volume takes time to come back, don't worry about that, and don't up it by too much too soon. You going to be at London again?
John - sorry to hear about Tokyo. Do you not get some kind of GFA?
Track this morning; blooming freezing cycling there! Some more rolling miles, alternating 6:45mm and 5:40mm. Hard effort, legs felt pretty good for the opening 4 miles, but definitely faded towards the end of the session; felt like I was carrying around two anchors attached to my hips. Pleased with the execution though, really gave it some welly.
Posted another blog also, trying to keep it regular in the build up to Kona now;
https://spragginsblog.wordpress.com/2018/09/24/road-to-kona-3-weeks-to-go/
Glad the niggle is ok chicksta, you’ve bounced back from the marathon quickly.
Nice work at parkrun Jooligan, and impressive mileage. 333 parkruns is incredible. I live basically on the doorstep of my nearest, and have only made it to 4 in 18 months
Great report Hazel, and impressively even splits. Well done for not letting the watch freeze throw you too much. Love how happy you look after passing the finish line!
You know my thoughts SQ, 13@MP makes most sense IMHO.
Congrats on the PB Muddy, impressive off a short build-up.
Five hours on the turbo is insane Joe, but no doubt superb heat and mental training! And congrats to Katie on yet another PB.
Bad luck missing out on Tokyo John. A break to concentrate on shorter distances might be good though, I know I enjoyed doing just that last autumn.
I was really happy to get out and do a classic ten miles along the canal on Sunday, even if the weather was rubbish. Feet were a touch sore afterwards but nothing major, and felt fine the next day so all good I think. Might try a short fartlek or something later in the week, to ease in to some more quality running. Still 10½ weeks until Telford, so hopefully enough time to get in to reasonable shape if things continue to go well.
Proper winter conditions today, so long summer!
Fantastic result, muddy. Can’t complain about that off a short build up and a big hill late in the race.
Massive couple of sessions, Joe. 5 hours has got to be double points in the mental stakes. 8 litres? I’d hate to see the state of your carpet after that much sweating! I’d definitely be practising taking in electrolytes as they are bound to be crucial in Kona. I’ll catch up on the blog once home. Those blasted school filters can only mean you must have included some dubious pictures of you in your swim gear this time…
Jooligan, I have been meaning to drive to the canal by you for some time. I do love a canal for a long run.
Sounds another fun trip, HA. And you do seem to be knocking out some solid sessions albeit with low volume. Fancy racing a half or shorter?
Hard luck on Tokyo, JohnOz. Don’t fancy London again? I appreciate it’s not exactly in your back yard.
Thank you all for your comments and answers to my question about Cheltenham Half. I really appreciate the range of views and depth of experiences this thread offers. After easy running Thursday – Monday I feel better. I have made a decision to have a big training week and run Sunday as something like 10M easy, 13.1 MP. I think such a week, at this point out from Abingdon, will give a greater return than trying to smash a PB. That said, Joe makes an excellent point about doing the fun stuff. Fortunately I do enjoy the training, and really enjoy the rare occasion when I don’t ‘race’ a race. Greater showboating opportunities.
Yesterday morning saw a 5M recovery with spoons’ running consultancy services, before another very slow 5M in the afternoon. As the wind looked so still this morning (although a Baltic 2C driving in), I decided to do my big session today. It seemed to make sense given no hard run over the weekend. The ‘final descent’ from the BAC sessions, saw a total of 17.6M at 6:59m/m average. The efforts were 24 mins (6:29s and 3 min jog recoveries), 18 (6:22), 12 (6:19), 6 (6:10), 4 (6:15 – not quite sure what happened there), 3 (6:09 – now 2 min jogs), 2 (6:02), 2 (5:59). Really pleased to see progression in the paces. Although being out for so long did necessitate a rather rapid shower and change pre meeting. Definitely had that post run look about me as I shuffled in with seconds to spare.
The benefit I found though was that I could do better quality sessions and get more rest afterwards. No coincidence that with just a month off between jobs I knocked out a 5k PB.
5 days running in a row for me. It's all been a bit aimless though, just enjoying being able to do it.
Spoons - really good to see you back running regularly. Definite winter conditions this morning!
SQ - Hugeeeee session, really impressive running. Sounds like a solid plan re; this weekend - nout wrong with that.
Jooligan - It's always brilliant being able to share stuff like that with her, but it's getting a lot harder! I felt like a proper pacemaker at times, thinking I might have to peel off after a couple of miles and leave her to finish it off. May well see you at Wokingham again, I do like that race.
Reg - I think you're absolutely spot on with that. the training gives me a load of time to think more about the situation, and that makes me enjoy it less, when normally it's just a nice break from work and comes with added structure. That being said, as soon as we fly out and we're away for 3 weeks I know I'll be buzzing.
Jools you are doing some great running at the moment and sound very motivated.
Would echo the careful with cold thoughts SQ but it should at least be wearing off by the weekend.
5 hours on the turbo Joe.. I take my hat off to you. Looking forward to seeing how Katie storms around Chicago, well done to her for another PB. And another blog to look forward to reading in a bit.
Thanks for the location HA. Must get to Scotland again soon, I have plenty of areas I haven't visited yet. An Teallach looks like a good one.
Good to see the classic canal route back spoons.
Bad luck on the Tokyo ballot John.
Thanks for the report feedback everyone.
I'm pleased not to be suffering from the usual post-mara blues this time around. I've had the 3:30 goal for more than 2 years now and its great to have achieved it and not think about what could have been if I had run a little bit better. I don't have any new targets yet but I will start thinking some up soon.
SQ - another great session, I must try them out in my next marathon block. What’s your progression and timing of them?
Alas GFA for Tokyo is 2:45 and with a 10% success rate it could take some time to get in. I did consider going back to Boston but didn’t think I could persuade the wife to go back so soon and she won’t let me go solo! Working on the shorter distances seems to have done some of you good so still motivation to train for it.
Who’s up next?
Read the blog once home, Joe. Good read as always. Very sensible to take a couple of days - and then you were certainly firing on all cylinders after that. I think the time post Kona will need to be carefully managed. My friend just tagged me on a link to Oxygen Addict podcast - starring the one and only Spraggins!
Jooligan I really enjoyed the Wrexham Village Bakeries half a few years ago. Doesn't work for me now the parents in law no longer live in Chester, but am seriously considering Wokingham again. Will need to jump into a group this time and not suffer alone in the wind.
Great to see some running consistency, Reg.
John the sessions are: http://www.bournemouthac.co.uk/training/BAC_Marathon_Sessions_2016.pdf I have been really enjoying them. Although will consider returning to a P&L half plan for a Feb half.
Classic canal 10 for me this morning, and good to see spoons back on there. Legs felt surprisingly ok, and it was my fastest for a while - although still at very easy effort. 7:40s average.
Well done on the pb Muddy. That's a wicked time.
Yes Spoons, Tracksmith split shorts. Blew my mind when I first raced in them and discovered the three pockets. Have some Patagonia shorts with three pockets, too, but haven't seen any other brands with the same. And Chicksta the gels and drink mix were by Maurten. It's a bizarre texture and holds no real flavour, just pretty sweet tasting, but as with any of this stuff you get used to it.
And talking of shorter distances, SQ and John, I picked up a copy of P&L last week with half an eye on some HMs next year. Looks similar to P&D, so once this ankle is better I might crack on. Will obviously enter the Berlin ballot again in October (without mentioning it indoors, having agreed to no more marathons for a while). I'd encourage anyone else who fancies Berlin next year to enter, too. I've some how managed to get in both times I've registered.
That's a tidy easy pace SQ.
Things are definitely looking positive Spoons. Still plenty of time to get for for Telford.
For those looking for a decently priced fast 10K in January the Speedway is returning on the 20th. I'll probably enter after Telford.
Having banked 3 big weeks I'm having a lighter week ahead of the w/e so just 5 more yesterday evening: slow & v. hilly. 3+6 today both slow & hilly.
Weather's looking promising for the w/e. Water temperature is about 14 degrees, forecast is for 10-12 degrees, light cloud & sunny intervals later. Winds of about 8-9 mph so nothing too harsh.
Joe, as others say, an honest blog. Wishing you and Katie a fantastic few weeks ahead. Definitely a few % to be gained in the fuelling/hydration although after a half dozen ultras I've not got it right myself.
Pleased to hear of the 5 day streak Reg.
Jooligan , that half sounds brilliant, Wrynose, Hardknot and Kirkstone all in one race, never mind the swim and run........
AWC - if you can get the mileage in a sub 1:30 is a shoe in, you've got time on your side though.
When I can get to a PC I'll update the list, applying Joes logic, I'll be running (slowly) a marathon on 13th Oct somewhere in the 100 miles of the Autumn 100. To that end I've just been trying to maintain high mileage which seems to have helped with MP runs, although I'm getting through trainers at an alarming rate whilst in discussions with Adidas over endorsement/sponsership😜
Training has been consistent if a little unspectacular. No massive BAC or marathon sessions, just lots of easy/steady running. Feeling in good shape though. Unfortunately my tight back has returned over the last few weeks, just hoping lots of exercises and rest as the taper takes full effect will allow it to settle.
Congrats on the PB Muddy, I'd not heard of Marathon de Hull before you mentioned it, what was your thoughts on the event/course etc?
Impressive big training Joe and SQ, I'm sure you'll reap the rewards of those big sessions.
John, sorry to hear you didn't get your Tokyo place. My friend just completed the majors this year finishing with Tokyo, think he had to buy his way in though after failing to get in through the ballot/gfa a few times.
Not heard of P&L before dct & AWC, will need to have a google to find out more.
I must have missed it, what's happening at the weekend Jooligan?
Not sure Adidas could afford to sponsor you Macca
You've been putting in plenty of speedy looking miles according to Strava.
John - didn't need the loo at all, body was losing enough fluid as it was.. Did go afterwards though.
AWC - sounds like a really good session mate. hope all is going well at home as well.
Jools - excited to see how you get on at the weekend, glad the weather is looking good. Any goals?
Macca - looks like we'll be racing on the same day, but most likely in very different conditions! I reckon you're worth an Adidas sponsorship.
Hard swim and then a cycle to the south coast from London yesterday. Today I had one of my last bike sessions. Really wasn't up for it, legs absolutely knackered and I tried to construct a sob story so my coach would tell me to sack it off. Unfortunately, he told me to get on with it, and I'm really glad he did. I think it's probably the deepest I've ever gone in any run/bike session, ever. Really pleased with the execution, another step closer to the taper.
Berlin Marathon - 16th September 2018
Marathon de Hull - 23rd September 2018
Chester Marathon - 7th October 2018
Ironman World Championship (Hawaii) - 13th October 2018
Autumn 100 - 13th October 2018 Macca as close to 20hrs as possibleAbingdon Marathon - 21st October 2018
Snowdonia Marathon - 27th October 2018
Frankfurt Marathon - 28th October 2018
New York Marathon - 4th November 2018
Valencia Marathon - 2nd December 2018
Jooligan - I try to get 750-1000 miles per pair. I think I’m relatively big/heavy and my joints start to feel the road at about that point. I don’t think I could ever get 2k out of them. To be fair to Adidas, I’ve just sent back a pair that split down the side and they are refunding without quibble.
AWC - with trail shoes I’m finding they fall apart before feeling worn out (very small sample size). It does feel nice to step out of an old pair into new though.
Well done on digging so deep Joe. Those sessions feel better afterwards. As I’m trudging up and down the Ridgeway in the dark I’ll try not to be thinking of you splashing about in the warm sea off Kona in your budgie smugglers😀
I'm going to check out the P&L Book too. No spring marathon for me but trying to get some decent time in a spring half instead. I'm sick of winter training in the wet and cold. I much rather do loads of intervals and tempo stuff in the comfort of the gym. Strangely looking forward to LT runs. Must be going mad
Good luck, Jools.
Jealous of your LT pace, AWC.
Ticking over with short, easy running and strength work at the gym. Need to make some race plans soon
Dct I’m really keen to get some of those Tracksmith split shorts. As a diabetic, it is critical I can carry my own gels in races. My classic Ronhill split shorts cargo are getting a bit old. Time to save up for some more stylish ones. P&L is great – really enjoyed the variety of sessions, and certainly my average pace increased, whilst still running up to 19M long runs.
Nice LTing, AWC. Heck of a pace improvement. I reckon you’ve got a sub 90 min in you. Pick the right course and it’s definitely there for the taking.
Best of luck with the tri, Jooligan. It’s only a half… Interesting to read about your trainer mileage. Like others, I have had a strict 500 replacement point. Perhaps this needs stretching a little. Although as Macca says, the off roaders tend to have the uppers wear out first. I do like to avoid wearing current ‘running’ trainers in day to day use, in order to let the soles recover and rebound a bit. Writing this, I realise what bollocks it sounds.
Haha Macca – for a minute there I was imagining you in shirt and tie, but sweaty running shorts and socks under the desk. You’re getting some great consistent running in at the moment.
Not long until Chester, Alan. Love that race. It used to work (that and the half) so well for me with my parents in law living a ten minute walk away. Brilliant atmosphere – really hope you enjoy it. And the infamous mile 24 hill really isn’t as bad as everyone makes out.
Having seen many of your other sessions, Joe, god only knows what the deepest ever was like! Fantastic work.
Good to hear your itching for more plans, chicksta!
Just about squeezed in a very short recovery yesterday. A rare early evening run for me. Fantastic to do it in the setting sun. The early mornings have been so much cooler than the rest of the days. Getting worried about a repeat of London with the heat!
This morning I did 10M easy, including 10 x 100m strides on the new artificial rugby pitch near me. Absolutely fantastic surface. Obviously mud free and utterly smooth, with a nice bounce. Perfect for doing it in the dark, with only a bit of residual light from cars and relatively distant street lamps. Will definitely be returning. I can find strides on road can leave my calves quite stiff, so it’ll be interesting to see how they react after this.