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P&D Autumn Marathon 2018
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I on the other hand got pretty much what I deserved. 9 weeks with 2x 20M & a ridiculously tough Half Iron Man 3 weeks out is not the way to get a PB. Even more foolish is driving for over 2.5hrs, falling off the wagon (after 7 weeks), dancing the night away & consequently having probably 2 hours kip just 2 days before a key race! I then drove another 3 hrs, did a parkrun (20:16
Sunday: 6am start for another 90 minute drive to Abo
Breakfast en route: 3 bananas, a Hike bar & a jam wrap washed down with coffee then freshly squeezed beetroot, apple, lime & ginger
Arrived & got myself ready then headed over to the track. After locating a free toilet & applying the Vaseline I did some dynamic stretching chatting to Laura, a friend who was running it as a training run for NYC, & SQ. I'd decided that my textbook preparation meant I should give 2:59:xx a shot
After a few GI issues in the build up to VLM a 2nd visit to the toilet with 15 minutes to go did little to settle my nerves however I lined up at the start having jogged no more than 200yds. I spotted SJ from Sub3 & we decided to stick together. He'd had a perfect build-up but was sensibly ignoring the temptation to be greedy. We set off & crossed the line 17s after the start so spent the first 800m (3:31 pace) overtaking people though I tried not to waste too much energy by weaving. After the slow start I found some clear road & pushed on at 6:46 on a slight rise dropping SJ in the process. After 2M I teamed up with Ollie who was also aiming for his first sub 3. He'd dropped off a group ahead a their pace picked up & we chatted away for the next 10K happily ticking the miles off til SJ & StevieW joined us.
They'd been using me as a target for the last 8 miles. We went through half way in 1:29:03. I was reasonably comfortable though aware that maintaining the pace was beginning to require a bit of mental effort so I figured my 3rd injection of fuel would be a Caffeine Bullet sweet. I find unwrapping these on the go a bit of a faff & so became detached from our quartet. The gap was only 10-20m but I couldn't quite bridge across without putting in a spurt I felt I'd regret later. This was the beginning of the end: I was disheartened by losing them & doubts began creeping in. The gap stayed more or less constant til the rise around 16M. First time round with Ollie this had seemed easy & we'd gained several places but now, with the legs feeling lifeless, I could see them pulling away as my pace dropped off & I was being overtaken by runners I recognised from Lap 1. I had to keep reminding myself that I could still get a 3:05 or better so long as I kept below 7:30 pace. This motivated me to maintain the effort & although it slipped further by then I needed to average sub 8 for GFA. I had my final gel & a 2nd Caffeine Bullet at 2hrs then 3 jelly babies at 19.4M. Together with about 200ml of Lucozade that was it nutrition wise. I drank a mouthful at most water stations but I don't think that was enough as I was incredibly thirsty on the drive to Exeter afterwards & looking at the photos I was drenched in sweat by half way. I struggled on just trying to keep the Garmin reading 7:xx which I managed apart from mile 25 & the underpass with its killer ramp. The final 300m on the track I managed to wind the pace back up & even overtook a couple of people.
Once I crossed the line though I dropped to all fours spent & nauseous. This photo shows how much I was loving it by then
Caught up with SJ (2:58:38), Ollie (3:01:xx) & SQ afterwards. SJ also informed me StevieW had pushed on from about mile 19 for a 2:55:xx
Splits from the Garmin
To half way with group: 6:54/6:40/6:46/6:50/6:49/6:44/6:45/6:46/6:45/6:50/6:43/6:50/6:43
Solo: 6:56/6:53/7:06/7:10/7:15/7:23/7:33/7:51/7:49/7:59/7:54/8:16/8:01
final 400m 7:04
Super effort, Jooligan. The caffeine bullet must have a hell of a wrapper
SQ - I know that feeling well, you run a great race but part of you is wishing for more, I guess that’s what keeps driving us on. I think we’ve agreed before it’s as much about the journey (cliche) as the result so you should be proud of both. As to where those gains are, I’m not qualified to answer but being a one trick pony (P&D) I wonder if you did many blocks at MP ? There was the half at MP iirc but I find it too easy to do them in a race situation, for me, if I can dig them out on my own in a training run then I know I’m there or thereabouts. The only other thought is nutrition, particularly carb loading ?
Jools - to get that time after those last few days and tri-x and a “relaxed” summer is phenomenal imho. It says to me that if you get yourself back into last springs shape and the weather gods play ball you’ll smash sub 3.
Turning to spring, I’ve got my London mag but I’m toying with the idea of Manchester early April as an A race to insure against a repeat heatwave and so I can start proper trading earlier.
Bad luck on the short course Muddy, must be frustrating. But great the pace was faster over previous years, especially as it was part of a longer run.
Great report SQ and congrats again on the PB. Lovely of your family to surprise you like that. I completely empathise with the feeling of being pleased with the PB, but disappointed it wasn’t quite what you wanted and hoped for. But enjoy the achievement, that’s a big chunk off your PB.
You were only 1 second per mile short, and I reckon having a group to work with for longer would easily have made up that difference. The only suggestion training wise I can think of might be making your long runs a bit more challenging at times? I did runs like 10 x 1 mile @ MP, 1 mile @ MP+60s, and 4@LT, 10 steady, 4@LT which I think helped me with maintaining pace at the end of the marathon.
Top work Jooligan too. An impressive time given the short build-up, and not exactly textbook pre-marathon preparation (although textbook for you, I suppose
). Great that you’ve secured GFA again.
Manchester is a good race Macca, about as flat as you can get and it certainly got the better weather this year! Talking of weather, I know this makes me a terrible person but I looked at the forecast for Frankfurt yesterday and was a tiny bit pleased to see it’s meant to be wet and a bit breezy on Sunday...
Looks like things are progressing well for you Spoons from what I've seen on Strava & your posts here. Hopefully you'll find the speed comes back in time for Telford.
The Bullets are like chewits & absorb moisture so they stick to the wrappers which then come off in bits
Didn't get in to VLM for 2019 SQ as my GFA times were outside the qualifying period. I entered Brighton last night running for MIND. It's my PB course & I prefer the event as a race tbh. Less hassle with travel to registration/start/back after the finish. Far less crowded at water/feed stations if you're running around 3 hr pace but with enough others to work with/off.
10K recovery run round my local parkrun twice enjoying the autumnal sunshine through the beech & sweet chestnut trees. Legs OK but should probably have stuck to 5M as I feel a bit tired from the effort now.
Well done also Jooligan. Faint heart never won a fast marathon, or something. That's a stupendous amount of gastro intestinal irritants pre-race ! And then some caffeine bullets on top. That's true GI fortitude.
Congratulations to SQ and Jools for the Abo results. Nice you met for a pre race chat.
SQ: That is an impressive training record to read. Well done on your PB - definitely enjoy it even if you didn't go sub 2:50. You could have lost those 30 seconds anywhere - that is so close. Did you not drink anything other than the gels the whole race? Lovely that your family did a surprise visit - who got the Mars bar in the goodie bag? You or your daughter?
Jools interesting few days leading up to the marathon. Well done on the GFA time. Could you maybe repackage the bullet sweets before the race if they are difficult to get into, by your description I guess not? The way you describe it Brighton sounds like a good alternative to London.
Naughty re. Frankfurt and the weather Spoons.
I'm doing a 10k in Leeds Hazel, good time on that tough 10km/10.6km course!
The endurance will always come back quicker than the speed Spoons, it'll come with time
Good bike/run combo Steve
I think you're being too harsh on yourself SQ, over a minute PB is still big and I'm sure that next time you'll go sub 2:50
Sounds like the perfect race prep for you Jooligan
, even though you dropped off in the second half that's a very strong result still
Chicksta - weather certainly has been lovely the lst few days, a sea front run sounds great
Legs feeling a little better this week, Mondays + Wednesdays 45min steady runs were backed up with a tough 10km specific session last night, 10 x 3min reps on grass. Averaged a tad over 5min miling
SQ - London is more than 26s faster than Abingdon so you'll be fine. Firmly with Muddy too. We can only really guess from what you write but to me it seemed like you were still doing needlessly hard sessions when there were already signs of over training. Quite similar to me a year ago. I feel quite differently about those big sessions nowadays. Learned the hard way I suppose.
Some top running by people - great times and everyone seems disappointed.
SQ - 2:50 has to be a great time, only have a minute from sub 2:50.
Jools seems to be racing every week - must cost you a fortune. (great time still) and love your last photo. You do seem to have some great photos in your races. - I'm in for Brighton as well as my GFA has now fallen outside their limits
Macca, thanks for the info on Ultras, I used to think most people actually ran them the same as marathons. But I've been educated now by others as well.
In 2018 my 43 running races will cost me £330 the same as my 3 triathlons!
Jools £330 is pretty cheap. I ran most of my marathons overseas so cost quite a bit, inc travel. Great experiences though, and I would not have gone to great places like Jerusalem and many major cities round Europe otherwise.
but 46 races and 50 park runs in a year, I would be F**cked
Thank you all for the feedback. As I said, I really value it and love the variety.
Macca I did 2 x 20 milers with the second halves at MP, and then also the 23 with the last 13 at MP. But as you say, it is so much easier in a race than solo. The solo MP did work out pretty well though. The BAC sessions also include a fair bit at MP. In terms of carb loading, I have shied away from this in recent years as it has proven to be so hard to keep blood sugar levels in check when doing so. But it is probably worth revisiting this, even if it is to have a bit more carbs, not necessarily loads.
Spoons I agree, 1s/M is nothing really. And you being so close to 2:45 was more meaningful – there is actually something tangible to that goal! I do like the sound of those long run sessions and will try to incorporate them in during spring training. That said, I need to be more confident at missing out sessions, as muddy and HA allude to. I should definitely have sacked off the ‘open topped sandwich’ so soon after the huge BAC session. Look forward to further thoughts from muddy. And HA, I really appreciate some nice brutal honesty!
Hazel, the 4 gels had a reasonable amount of water in them, but no, didn’t drink other than that. Wasn’t at all thirsty, so stayed clear of the water. The Mars Bar was shared!
There is a lot of MP in the BAC sessions, chicksta, but they do detract from having a purely aerobic MLR in the week.
Really hope you enjoy Snowdonia, Jooligan. 6 days is such a quick turnaround – but if anyone can recover in time, it is definitely you. Haha – great spending stats from you. Also fantastic your club pay for XC and track. Possibly why your club has such good turn out at these compared to mine?
Legs feeling ok. Have done gentle spinning and cross -trainer. Fatigued but no longer stiff. Might try an easy run tomorrow. Belly definitely tending up, up, up and out, out, out.SQ - I think you did everything you need in your training, just a bit too much of it, especially at the end. Those BAC sessions are long and hard and for non-elites like us I think you can't do them every week as well as other sessions and long runs. I think you'll come out of this block much stronger and faster. You're probably closer to a 2:45 marathoner than a 2:50 one, you just haven't run the time yet. Not sure it'd make much difference but I think you've not done much faster VO2 stuff. I feel like the short 20ish min fartleks with MPish recovery have really helped me and, while they're hard during, they don't take too much out of you.
Holidaying in the Lakes at the mo. Tough run from our cottage up some of the northern fells today. Going up was fine but got lost trying to feel my way back through fields and along footpaths. Seems a pretty regular thing for me. Really should've taken a map.
Not sure how many on here do actually follow P and D, but i will point out that Steve Way and Stu Leaney (sub 3 threaders) have both run sub 2.30 following it to the letter. But i will add that ive never followed a schedule and just fit what i can around my life, and have a casio sundial to record any training times.
Dropping in to say congrats to SQ and Jools on their marathon performances last weekend.
SQ - fantastic run mate, you should be really happy with that. Nice to see the hard work pay off. As others have alluded to, you’d have that extra 1s/mile on a fast city route like London, and also more free time by having the benefit of running in a group. It’s a matter of progression as well, just building the engine year after year.
Jools - sounds like a tough battle in the latter stages, but it sounds like you already know why the race might not have gone as planned. Still a great time and performance. Good luck for Snowdonia this weekend.
Hazel - sounds like the fitness is still there post Berlin. Great stuff.
HA - love a good run-explore whilst away. Hope you’ve recovered well from Leicester.
So we’re finally back from our North American jaunt. Had an amazing time, lots of adventure and eating/drinking. I’ve been fairly absent in here so apologies for that but should be back in far more regularly now.
Not had much time for recovery with all the hiking we’ve been doing but starting to get the urge to train again soon.
We’ve got a big running club wedding in Dorset this weekend, so Blandford Forum parkrun tomorrow followed by the Stickler 10 mile on Sunday where most of us plan to be horrifically hungover. Should be great fun. Good luck anyone else racing this weekend.
Enjoy your holidays HA.
Good to see you back Joe.
Legs felt OK & I went off pretty fast then slowed up the first big hill to keep the HR in check. Down the other side at speed. Once onto the stony track I hit my left leg heavily as the sun/sweaty shades combo meant I misjudged the ground - felt a sharp pain in my quad but that passed as I hurtled down to Mile 7. Ate a Mars bar & grabbed some water around here then carried on at around 7 m/M feeling OK. At 10 the pain in my quad came back but it went away as I relaxed ever so slightly, though HR says I was working too hard. Went through half way in 1:35. The next section is a 2 mile climb where I pulled my hamstring last year so I deliberately kept the effort low as I could feel it was very tight again. Over that & its an undulating descent for the next 6 miles which I ran although pace was pretty poor really. Just before 22 miles the killer climb rears its ugly face & I crumbled to a walk/jog. By the top I was really cold & feeling sick & could only jog along the uneven ground before picking the pace up slightly on the steep descent. My good left hamstring started cramping on the steep tarmac so couldn't even push off properly with either leg as the landing was just as bad. Finished 256th in 3:42:51. Beautiful day for it & I'll be back next year hopefully but won't try to do Abo 3 weeks before.
Sounds like a great break HA, shame the lakes is so far away.
SQ - I think we are all agreed you’ll smash it next time out😀
Jools - as said on Strava, 6 days after Abo is immense. I can’t think there were too many others in the field doing the same thing. Enjoyed the report and it makes me want to do it one day.
Park run pb for me yesterday. I couldn’t let it pass without a few words😀. Only a 6m warm up but I was running late so the last 2 miles were a bit too quick. I started on the 2nd row and settled into about 5th place. When dry, this is a fast course, pretty flat, no overtaking of traffic and only a couple of short grass sections where grip can be an issue for road shoes. Settled into 6min miling for PB ish pace. The 2nd mile pace dropped to 6:15 and one guy overtook. Not sure if it was the grass or lack of concentration but I noticed 4th and 5th seemed to be coming back to me so just focused on them thinking a PB had slipped away. I went past 4th and 5th, trying to breathe normally for that psychological advantage, and just settled
for trying to hold place. The last 1/2 mile is along an old airplane taxiway so a great finish but it does feel like you are running to the horizon. The guy behind drove me to my fastest split for the last mile 5:55ish but I just managed to hold him off for a 10s PB of 18:30. I reckon I’ve lost about a stone in weight over the last month or so which I credit mainly for the increased speed. I’ve just got to keep it off over xmas but I’m already looking forward to getting back into a P&D plan.
Macca: amazing PB so soon after the A100. The weight definitely makes a difference - I lost a stone before the NDW100 and it made a big difference. You are in fantastic shape to be starting PD post Christmas. You’ve got incredible endurance and the speed to go with it.
I was really lucky when I did Frankfurt in 2016 Hazel, it was still and cool. Bit breezy yesterday I think, although nothing on the conditions for the Venice marathon where the course was flooded. Although the winner still managed a 2.13 despite the wading lol.
Sounds like a bracing run along the coast chicksta.
Nice session Scott.
£330 is pretty good for 43 races Jooligan. Although fuel must add up too! Great work at Snowdonia soon soon after Abo.
Welcome back Joe, your photos of Hawaii on Instagram were incredible, what an amazing place.
Congrats on the PB Macca, great work.
Things seemed to be going well for me, but then on Wednesday evening I managed to clobber my foot and badly hurt my fourth toe. I headed out for my run as usual on Thursday, but stopped after a few hundred meters as the toe was feeling very sore and uncomfortable. I skipped Friday’s run, and it felt ok enough to try out on Saturday but all motivation had left me by that point and I couldn’t be bothered to head out on a cold, damp day.
Went out yesterday though, and although it’s a little sore it was way better than Thursday so I think it’s just bruised rather than broken. Just did 10 miles which felt like harder work than it has done recently. Bit depressing given I should have been running Frankfurt, but what can you do. At least it was a nice sunny morning.
Rest day yesterday seems to have recharged the batteries OK as I cycled over 35M today managing a minute PR on a 3M 4% uphill segment towards the latter part of the commute!
Think the legs will have benefited from another day without running though: biking is much lower impact.
Macca - Loved seeing that PB on strava, and much deserved after putting in a solid block of training. Can't wait to see how you go in the marathon.
Spoons - always horrible to watch a race you're meant to be doing from afar, but at least you're back running and before you know it another A race will be around the corner.
After 2 weeks of minimal training, a running club weekend with a wedding thrown in for good measure certainly was a bit of a baptism of fire.
18:19 at Blandford parkrun for 3rd on Saturday (the groom won), which felt comfortably hard but not an all out effort for sure. Bit colder than Hawaii!
Then we had the wedding Saturday night, before all stumbling over to the Stickler 10 miler the following morning. I was definitely a little worse for wear. 1,600ft of climbing including 500+ ft in the first mile will sort that out quick enough!
Paced it surprisingly well, moving up from around 20th to 5th, before being overtaken by a young whippersnapper in the final mile and ending up 6th. The groom won (again), we were 3rd team and Katie was 4th lady and first ladies team. 71 minutes for 10 miles at a near max effort; it was a pretty tough course and I'm definitely not in peak fitness right now!
In other news, the trilogy of Kona blogs is finally complete, for those that have a spare hour or two!
https://spragginsblog.wordpress.com/