P&D Autumn Marathon 2019

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  • Jools - that sounds like a weekend of old, just needs a fell race squeezing in somewhere, great stuff.

    Millsy - I know that feeling from glancing at the watch during XC.  

    Joe - sounds like a great weekend, a couple of decent runs and also time to enjoy yourself, great combination.

    John - I keep going back to those photos.....

    RSR - I spotted those hill reps on Strava, I had to refresh the page just to make sure, I think I may have just spotted another one !

    SQ - efficient use of the hr in Bristol, agreed 50mpw over Xmas will provide a decent base.

    HA - well done on the XC placing, hope work doesn’t get too much in the way of training, it can be a bugger like that.

    AWC - You’ve almost done the Grand Slam (missing the fastest/easiest one) so a bit of downtime won’t do any harm.  I think your perspective has changed when you pencil in a 45m race over xmas😀. I put my 2 tickets in the Western States hat this week.

    TR - all the best at Gosport, and Millsy.  Hope the weather is fair.

    Tapering here for Wendover 50.  I’ve been lucky with coughs and colds dovetailing around races this year so can’t complain but yesterday’s arrival might be a bit close for comfort, hopefully some Birds eye chillis will see it off.  Otherwise really up for it.
  • Morning all.

    Good to see you back on the 3 minute reps, TR - your favourite!

    Great weekend, Jooligan. Solid spread of severe cross country and nice tarmac bike path too. Did you ever do the Bristol-Bath marathon?

    That’s an excellent XC results, HA. Do you find yourself relatively stronger on the flat or hilly courses?

    Haha, Milly. I’d agree with you about pacing - XC definitely one to run on effort (ie blowing out your backside from the off).

    I reckon you are building nicely, Spoons. Perhaps add some strides in one day a week? Really enjoyed our session last week and hope we can get another one in soon.

    Fantastic looking birthday weekend, Joe. No excuses now in Valencia with some of the pink kicks. 

    Well done for recognising the need for a break, AWC. No doubt it will have done you good. Things are good here, thank you. Everyone growing fast (including my belly). Like last time having to readjust. Haven’t yet embraced the late night long runs I seem to recall from you. That’s a punchy little list of end of the year races!

    Best of luck at the weekend, Macca. Hope the cold is nothing. A chilli as you say, and perhaps a hot toddy will sort you out. I don’t actually think either of those things ever work for me, but it’s always a great excuse to enjoy them. What’s the weather looking like for you?


    Morning’s getting a little difficult, so often enjoy some carrier cuddles with the baby whilst cracking on with some work. This has just about led to some sneaky day time sessions, with a bit of strava hiding. Didn’t want to completely miss out on Spoons’ hill fun yesterday, so headed out at lunchtime (far too soon after eating 🤢) for 6 hill reps of 2:13 - 2:23. 10 miles total at 7:24 pace. Good sessison to squeeze in. Will try to do strides later in the week to keep the real speed up.

  • Also: really enjoyed the MT interview with Tommy Hughes and his son. Record holders for combined father son marathon time. 
  • SQ / Spoons - Nice hill work!
    AWC - Good to see you doing some shorter races at the end of the year!!   :D
    Macca - Good luck at WW50.
    4 miles and strength work today. 1 mile warm up and cool down with 2 faster miles (6:35/6:42), not as fast as I'd like, so some work to do there, but first fast miles I've done since my 10k last month!!
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Macca - hope the chillis work and you go well.

    SQ - good to see you are still at it. Hope the new arrival is doing well. Bit of a break from 3 min reps coming up, as im going P and D for vlm.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    TR - I'm sure you can find room for some 3 min reps in the schedule. What sort of mileage are you targetting?

    SQ - Great work on fitting the training in with the little one. You've been doing enough that you won't have lost much if you do decide to pick up the training somewhat in the new year. Not sure how I compare on the hills compared to a flat course. I placed better in the flat race on Sunday but my fitness has improved quite a bit over the past few weeks so it's difficult to say. Got a few hilly races coming up so should get some idea in the next few weeks.

    Spoon - I like the recent spate of hill reps on your Strava feed. I'm a big believer in having variety in your training and I think that doing something you haven't done much of in the past can result in significant and relatively quick improvements.

    Macca - Course at work hasn't been too bad, well it's quite boring, but I managed to squeeze in a lunch run yesterday and should get another in today. Good luck in Wendover tomorrow. Just a sneaky 50 miler hey? 

    AWC - Squeezing in the odd sneaky ultra yourself in Dec. Good work. Sounds like the right attitude towards training at the moment, you've had a big year. 

    John - Nice pic of the NYPD chopper. I've won one XC before but it really depends on who shows up. I'd like to think I should push my way up onto the podium if I can get a bit fitter. One of my clubmates seems to be head and shoulders above everyone else in the first few races, so I've got no chance if he's there. He beat me by 1:40 on Sunday, even though he only beat me by a similar amount over a marathon in April. 

    Joe - Good to hear the motivation is back, even though you're an old bastard now. What are the plans for next year? Running focused or IM?

    Managed a lunch fartlek yesterday 8x 2ish min on / 1ish min off. 9 hilly, muddy, offroad miles this morning, then likely a hill session at lunch. Squeezed 3 days into 2 after not running on Wednesday. Rest day tomorrow though so it should be alright.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    HA - 2 min reps noted.......i had a read up of P and D 18 week schedules, he difference between 70-85 and the 85+ plan seems to be the extra recovery runs as doubles. I will do the main run from those schedules and not do the doubles so it will be 70 to 80ish.......although i too listened to Tommy H and it appears that as an M50 17m  Sat, Sun and Mon and then doubles inc some speedwork for the rest of the week is the way to go.
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    Macca: hope you are feeling better and ready for the weekend - enjoy those 10,000ft of climbing!!!
    HA: good fartleking
    Steve: good work with the fast miles
    SQ: glad to hear the new arrival has settled in well. It does take a bit of adjusting but I've enjoyed the first year - more so than with our first. I think first time its a craziness you've never experienced before but now its old hat and easier to enjoy it.
    Heading out for an LT run this afternoon. First in months so that should be fun!
    Gonna do a long run on the Monarch's Way tomorrow morning.
  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    Hopefully see you at Gosport tomorrow TR. Oddly I’m looking forward to it which is odd for a half as I usually get my pacing a bit off.
    has been interesting tracking Macca as well.
    AWC, I’ll have to strava stalk your Monarchs way route as part of it is on some of my regular training routes
    good luck to anyone else racing tomorrow.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    See you there Millsy.
  • Quick check in, 9hrs 41mins at Wendover Woods yesterday for 14th place.  A great event, tough but feels like a job well done.

    Hope the Gosport Two got on ok.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Happy days Macca, you are a machine.

    Didnt run as well as id have liked, i was hoping to get under 81mins, but it always a risk doing this after Abo recovery with no real race prep. So my legs got a shock today. Still Abo always was the priority.

    81.27, so not much quicker than my solent 82.34 which was a tired run on a slower route...........however, 81 mins is well on the way to sub 255 shape.

    A few easy days then operation sub 255 begins.

    Good to see Millsy today a few times.
  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    Awesome result Macca. 14th at a Centurion event is a very high placing.
    i saw a lot of drop outs on social media. It’s not a race that I really fancy doing. Puts me off their 50 grand slam.

    Was great to see TR at Gosport. He was well ahead of me and definitely in sub 2:55 shape. 
    I managed 83:33 which was about where I was hoping. I seem to have done quite a few C races and XC over the last 8 weeks so have been consistently decent rather than great in any one race. Have noticed that there’s not much difference between my LT and Marathon pace which I’ll have to work on in the spring. I still seem to have some top end speed on the track sessions so will see if I can nail a couple of parkruns before the end of the year.
  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    Macca - congrats on not just finishing but smashing another ultra. After your breakthroughs this year on the road and also the ultra trails it must be a hard decision on what to focus on next year. Sounds like you have NYC on your radar though... go for it, you can always squeeze in an ultra either side!

    TR - great result, that definitely sets you up perfectly for sub 2:55. When I ran 2:50 and change this year I had done an 80:50 HM 3 weeks before so you've plenty of time to build up and smash your target.

    Millsy - well done, must be more in the tank if as you say LT and MP are so close.
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    Macca: as Millsy says 14th at Centurion is brilliant. Great racing - all those mountinas at UTMB obviously paid off!
    TR: top half marathon result.
    Millsy: Good half racing. I only went as far west as Braishfield so probably quite a bit from you
    First LT run in ages on Friday which was 7mi w/4mi at LT which didn't feel too bad given I haven't done one in ages. Had a nice 19mi long run on the Monarch's Way on Sunday - bit slippy and muddy in places now so probably not much more of that trail over the winter for me. That took me over 2,500 miles for the year, and I'm now well over my 2018 total of 2,461. Would be nice to get to 2,750 by the end of the year.

  • Its been a while since I've posted, apologies, but didn't want to bore anyone with daily updates of 'ankle still sore, no running'  :D I have been reading along though in the background, stalkerish :D, so apologies if I've left anyone out in, and for, the following looonnngg post...

    First up the racers,

    SQ + Spoons....well done on the 5 miler. Hope your feeling back to your racing self soon Spoons, and well done SQ on getting it done with a new baby, class commitment.

    John....Excellent race in New York, congrats on another sub 3 this year. Sounds a brilliant day and experience, it was a really good report and photos too.

    Millsy...Nice 10 miler, XC (sounded fun :flushed::D) and half at Gosport, good racing.

    Jools....You are racing well, and often (back to your usual self :D) at the minute, well done.

    HA77...Very well done and congrats on the position in the XC.

    Macca...Top class running at Wendover Woods, brilliant.

    TR...Well done at Gosport. 27 seconds over a target time with no specific training is good going, and bodes very well for a sub 2.55.

    Notable mentions,

    HPR...really sorry to hear that, hope your back at it sooner rather than later. You'll be back stronger than ever for London i'm sure.

    Joe...Belated happy birthday, apologies. Sounds like a lovely weekend away. 

    Steve...Fair play to you, all the very best for your training for Manchester.

    AWC...I'm liking the casual marathon and ultra booked just for fun for next month...excellent :D Good luck with them.


    Also, goes without saying, good training from everyone, day in day out getting it done.


    So, I went over on my ankle during a trail race 2 Saturdays ago. Took Sunday to Tuesday off completely as it was a struggle to walk on it properly never mind running. It felt OK on that Wednesday morning, so decided to try a recovery run, which was cut short to a mile when it quickly became apparent that it wasn't' fine :flushed: No running then until the weekend, when i went out Saturday and Sunday for decent runs, if not a bit too fast and too long for the health of my ankle. The ankle was OK running, but seized up and hurt badly after, so i was sensible (very unlike me) and took the next few days off. From last Wednesday however I've been recovery running with no issue at all (6,7 then 8 miles), and so felt confident enough to try some faster longer running this weekend. Saturdays 11 mile fartlek-ish run, and Sundays 20 miler (both of which were done close to home in case i needed to pull the plug) were niggly at most in places, but generally OK, and most pleasingly the ankle hasn't stiffened up after and feels OK with no pain when i'm not running, and only barely noticeable at times when i am (more because i'm conscious of it than anything else). So fingers crossed that's me out of the worst of it, and i can get back to it.

    7 mile recovery this morning was freezing, -2/-3 was a shock to the system alright :flushed::D 2 pairs of gloves on and my hands where still froze.
  • Evening all. 
    Think you’re being a bit harsh on yourself there,TR. great racing. 
    Superb ultraing, Macca. And as ever, you are at the sharp end in such races. Such range on show this year. How did you run today?!
    Very solid half, Millsy. I like how well you analyse the different components of your training. 
    Back with a bang, hamo. Pleased the ankle is holding up. Well done for biding your time. 
    Good to see some faster work, Steve. And some outrageously early starts. 
    You seem to be getting in some consistency, HA. I like how you recognise when motivation is high or low and go with the flow. 

    11M on Friday, with 45 mins tempo effort on rolling hills. Probably about 6:30s. Recalibration of paces continues!
    Quiet weekend on the running front with a 5M recovery then 3M easy a little bit pissed on Sunday afternoon. Needs must 🥴 50M week just about achieved again ✅
    10M with 12 x 90s efforts on the canal today. Muddy in places. Effort based - hard - pace guesstimate from 5:45-6:15 I imagine. Was anyone else in for Telford 10k other than me and spoons? Jools?
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Millsy - get some LT work in and we'll have a tear up at stubbington 10k in january.

    Good to see you are getting back to it Hamo. Theres been quite a few frosty runs already this winter.

    Good mix of sessions there AWC

    SQ - when is Telford ? What sort of shape do you think you are in?

    5m easy today. The old groin/tummy issue was sore today, probably the shock of racing hard after lots of short and easy recovery running.

    Thanks for the kind comments, im one to always think i could have done (and can do) better. Already itching to get going again after a few quiet weeks.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Great work at Gosport Millsy and TR. Tough to back up only 4 weeks after Abingdon TR, so I think you can't be too worried about targets. No way I'd be able to do a decent half that close to a marathon. Hope the groin/tummy settles.

    Macca - Expect nothing less from you nowadays. Cracking stuff. Do you find the lap courses harder or easier?

    Hammo - Good luck with the comeback. Getting through a 11 mile fartlek and 20 miler on the weekend is a good sign. 

    SQ - 50 mile week is solid. I predict you'll be feeling fresh coming into the new year after not pushing the mileage over winter, then by April you'll really be firing.

    Decent few days for me. 14ish miles on Sunday, eash few miles yesterday and 16-17 miles this morning. Nothing special but some sections easily ticking along around 6:40-6:45/mile and finally feel like I'm moving well across the ground.
  • SQ...Nice tempo and efforts, but more impressively pissed 3 miler :D 

    TR...Good sign you are itching to get back at it. Hope the groin/tummy settles quickly.

    HA77...Sounds like a good weekends running for you, very positive.


    10.5 mile with 5 tempo miles for me this morning. Effort was right, pace slightly off (5.40 - 5.45's), but that's OK, i decided last minute to try a block tempo run, so pleased with how it came out. Ankle is groaning a bit now though, so have to keep an eye on that and not push my luck.
  • Thanks for the comments folks.

    TR & Millsy, looks like a couple of decent results in Gosport so soon after Abo. TR - as you say, just enough time to recover from Abo but not enough to prep for another race, I’d put myself in that boat too.

    Hamo - good to see you back on it, no harm in taking it easier for a bit longer although I’d probably do the same.

    John - NY is definitely on the list but with 2 tickets in Western States Lottery I couldn’t risk getting a place in both.  I think WS looks harder to get into so i’ll Persevere with that for now.

    AWC - LT plus 19 muddy miler sounds like a full on few days - good annual mileage.

    SQ - well done on maintain the 50mpw, those speeds sessions on hills and mud are probably quicker (effort wise) than they look.

    HA - in a similar vein to SQ, I like how you measure by feel, “tickling along” and “moving well”.

    Just a couple of recovery runs here.  Yesterday’s was a real slog.  I normally feel better after some active recovery but I’m not so sure about yesterday.  Definitely better today, patience.
  • A couple of quick lines about Wendover Woods 50,

    I love this race.  Close to home helps with logistics as does starting and finishing in the same place.  It’s 5 loops of about 10 miles through woods and being on the Ridgeway, providing around 10,000 ft of climb and descent, it’s an unbelievably varied route.  There’s an aid station halfway round each loop and another at the start/finish with access to your drop bag so you can carry the minimum mandatory kit. I had in mind to get close to or better last years 9hrs 1min in 12th place but couldn’t quite manage it with a 9hrs 41min 14th place.  The ground was a bit heavy and boggy in places and with a later kick off, more of the race was run in the dark so it’s difficult to compare year to year directly.  I faded a bit towards the end and I could feel my quads complaining on the last loop but all in all a solid result and great day out on a tough course.  I’ll try to keep up some hill work, I think my major weakness is descending, but attention now turns to running on flat tarmac with P&D starting in a couple of weeks.
  • Cracking Ultra there Macca. I remember your report of WW50 when I first joined this thread about 3(?) years ago. Certainly come on a long way since then.
    As I said elsewhere TR that 81:27 is considerably better than Abo on WAVA & even more impressive given you hadn't prepped for it beyond the consistent marathon campaigns.
    You were spot on with your self-assessment then Millsy - a decent HM to back up the desired result from Abo.
    Good to hear others are picking up the volume/quality again HA Hamo - watch you don't go too hard on that ankle mind.
    Yes SQ I'm in for Telford - 2nd wave though I feel a complete fraud at the moment given I've only broken 20 at parkrun once in 3 months. Speaking of which I did the local bog fest on Saturday & somehow took the end of my big toe off. I can still run but it's not pretty. Had a couple of days off last week with a virus & only did 9M Saturday inc PR then a hilly 10K on Sunday. Kept it short due to the toe & the lingering viral fatigue however I did put a couple of efforts in & was rewarded with a CR on a tough 0.5M segment B) 5M runch yesterday, hilly 10K first thing then 5K with strides & 6x200m at lunch today. All a bit random tbh but I figure daily running should bring some improvements.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    edited November 2019
    TR - Telford is 7th December. Suspect I’ll be in 37:00 shape, but we’ll see.

    Ouch Jooligan. What do you mean ‘took the end of my big toe off’? I’m a bit scared to ask for a photo. Nice one on the CR - they must be competitive with the many races in the forest. 

    I see the long runs are creeping in - HA, hamo. I suppose Macca’s qualifies as well?! Great report. Sounds like very tough conditions. 

    That tempo shows how little, if any, you have lost through the injury, hamo. 

    I am on a course next Friday in London. I remember reading once about the Last Friday of the Month 5k. Has anyone done it? I have entered as only £3, and just about doable in the lunch slot. 
  • Macca...hope the recovery runs do their job quickly for you. Sounds like a tough race, esp in the dark, cracking time.

    Jools...That sounds sore, hope the toe isn't too bad or stumpy :D . Random is sometimes the way to go, and you're right daily running in any form will bring improvements.

    SQ...£3 for a race is class. Perfect that it works well with your lunch break too, all the best for it.


    Ankle felt grand last night, and this morning when i woke up, so decided to try the 15M MLR i had planned with the proviso that i would cut it short if it started to complain. Pleasingly there was no need, as it felt OK the whole way. So 15 mile in 1.40 was more than pleasing especially considering the howling wind and rain in my face for the first 7.5 mile (out and back run)...strangely didn't feel it on my back when i was running home though :wink::D 
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    edited November 2019
    Listened to a really interesting podcast on the Nike Vaporfly shoe
    Well worth a listen if you have time esepcially if you are interested in some of the technical data and research behind it
  • TR - that's a cracking run, you should be well pleased with that. Look forward to following project 255.

    HA - next year I've already got IM Ireland and IM wales in the books. Want to really push on and see where I can get to. Not happening at the moment but it's a slow burner I guess! Seems like things are on the move for you, already looking forward to our annual London catch up.

    Millsy - a solid showing from you as well. I'm completely with you there, just can't get my top end speed up to anywhere near where it should be, but can hold a half decent pace for a long time. Trying to do more strides and faster bursts to stimulate the legs into moving faster!

    Hamo - sounds like the injury is clearing up nicely and you're hitting your stride again already. The progress you've had since you've been posting on this thread has been pretty astonishing.

    SQ - Just down the road from my work, and would be good to see you. 2 days prior to Valencia so I won't run but may well pop down and cheer you on. What time does it start for you?

    Macca - mind boggling stuff as ever. You've transformed into an absolute ultra monster and seem to be handle such massive volumes. Another great run. 
  • I was on a British Triathlon coaching course all weekend so training was slightly hampered but managed to get 2 x 1 hour runs in very early doors, the second one being 2 x 12 min tempo (6:08mm).

    Had 3 runs in 24 hours (yesterday and this morning) totalling 26 mile with the last one asking for some effort. 20 mins easy, 20 mins build (6:52mm), 20 mins hard (6:30mm). Again just couldn't get the legs going again and definitely felt pretty fatigued. 

    Few more runs including a bit of a blast at PR this weekend - still yet to decide on Valencia strategy. 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited November 2019
    HA - agreed, i kind of realise 81min waa despite Abo, not because of it. So......room to get quicker yet !

    Macca - cracking run. Sounds like a great run to me, sounds a tougher day than last yr. Did stu leaney run?

    Jools - stick with it, it will hopefully come back soon.

    SQ - a bit of sharpening and you might beat that estimate.

    Joe - good to see you back at itvwith s vengeance. Coming out o Valencia inspired to do more would be a good target, but im sure you'll run a syrong race. You seem to have the bit between yr teeth.
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