P&D Spring Marathon 2020

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  • Manchester 5/4
    SteveMac - ?? - P&D 18 week 50-70
    Cal Jones - 3:50 (?)

    Brighton 19/4
    Jooligan - 3:0x, 70M inc a parkrun each week, some XC & a few other races I'd imagine

    London 26/4
    SQ - sub 3, 50mpw Mission plan
    SBD - sub 2:50, 70-85
    HA77 - 2:30, DIY 50-60mpw
    RunSpoonRun - TBD
    TR - operation sub 2:55, 18wk no doubles
    Hamo - sub 2.35 - P&D 18 week - 85 Miles plus

    Southampton 26/4
    AWC - 2:59
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the welcome.  Lots of tasty targets being posted for the Spring marathons.

    Conditions look pretty bad in Sydney John - at least you've got access to the treadmill.

    Did anyone else notice that there is a lot less heel striking on the P&D third edition front cover! 

    Good to see you embracing P&D TR - given your training over the last year, you should reap the rewards in the spring.  I guess we all adapt the basic P&D schedules in different ways.  I struggle to find the time for doubles so usually restrict myself to one run per day.  I also find P&D a bit short on the long runs, so for Abingdon I ran  more 20+ runs.   I also started running 10K tempos from week 1 rather than gradually increasing them as per the schedule.  I've generally been bad at getting all the stride sessions in so will be making more of an effort to complete these!

    What variations have others found most useful?

    Manchester should be a good opportunity for the GFA time Cal as long as you don't burn too many matches in Tokyo.

    Speedy work on the treadmill Jools - a good pace on the 1K intervals.

    It sounds like Telford was fast despite the wind.  Must put that in the diary for next year.

    I had a few weeks down time after Abingdon but have managed to build the mileage back over the last four weeks.  Planning to tick along at c. 65 miles before starting the 18-week London schedule on  23 December.  Tempo session yesterday, so 10 miles with the middle 10K at tempo pace.  Hard work, but good to get the session done.
  • TR - my next goal would be 3:55, although getting 3:50 would be excellent - just one step at a time, though. I know from my experience this year that Spring marathons don't always go to plan. I went into 2018 with a marathon PB of a smidge under 4:30. My tactics for Manchester that year was to follow the 4:15 pacer and see how long I could stick with him. Longer than expected, actually - I didn't fall off the pace until 18 miles and then I came in just over three minutes behind him, which was an 11 minute PB. Then, at Chester in the Autumn, I thought I'd get my sub 4:15, went off with the pacer but got tired of kicking heels and knocking elbows on the pace bus, went off in front and ended up running 4:10:42.
    This year I did Vienna instead of Manchester, thinking I could shave another couple of minutes off and then go for a sub-4 in the Autumn, but it turned out warmer than I wanted and I crashed and burned in the last few miles and ended up over 4:14. (I also ran 4:14 at Liverpool in May which was my fastest time there, and would have been faster if it hadn't been for three miles of running into a headwind on the home stretch).
    That rather threw my confidence at going sub-4 in Yorkshire but I'd been running well all summer, ran a HM PB two weeks before and decided to go for it which, as it turned out, was the correct decision as I had the race of my life.

    I did 8 miles early this morning. I was going to do 10 but my pace was so ridiculously slow (around a minute slower than my normal easy pace) that I decided it wasn't worth flogging a dead horse. The 18 miler I did on Sunday was also slower than usual, so I figure I must just be tired as I'm not under the weather and my niggles are mostly behaving quite well. I might just have hit 50 miles a bit too quickly as I usually peak around 55-60.
  • John - Nice TM session, wow...what a difference a day makes!
    Cal - Welcome!
    Kettlebell workout this morning then a 5 mile run commute.
  • Here we go then - love a new thread. I'll get a decent target in nice and early.

    Welcome to all the newbie's and good to see the usual crowd back. 

    First blog for the new thread - finished my Valencia write up if anyone hasn't seen it;

    https://spragginsblog.wordpress.com/2019/12/05/valencia-marathon-01-12-2019/

    Just been ticking over since then with a bit of swim-bike-run, nothing to write home about. 

    Manchester 5/4
    SteveMac - ?? - P&D 18 week 50-70
    Cal Jones - 3:50 (?)

    Brighton 19/4
    Jooligan - 3:0x, 70M inc a parkrun each week, some XC & a few other races I'd imagine

    London 26/4
    SQ - sub 3, 50mpw Mission plan
    SBD - sub 2:50, 70-85
    HA77 - 2:30, DIY 50-60mpw
    RunSpoonRun - TBD
    TR - operation sub 2:55, 18wk no doubles
    Hamo - sub 2.35 - P&D 18 week - 85 Miles plus
    JB - sub 5 - triathlon training

    Southampton 26/4
    AWC - 2:59
  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    Hi,
       I`ll be loosely following the P&D principles for my Spring campaign. It seemed to work for VLM and SDW this year. Will be starting from 27th Jan as it gives me 17 weeks to Comrades.

    Manchester 5/4
    SteveMac - ?? - P&D 18 week 50-70
    Cal Jones - 3:50 (?)

    Brighton 19/4
    Jooligan - 3:0x, 70M inc a parkrun each week, some XC & a few other races I'd imagine

    London 26/4
    SQ - sub 3, 50mpw Mission plan
    SBD - sub 2:50, 70-85
    HA77 - 2:30, DIY 50-60mpw
    RunSpoonRun - TBD
    TR - operation sub 2:55, 18wk no doubles
    Hamo - sub 2.35 - P&D 18 week - 85 Miles plus
    JB - sub 5 - triathlon training
    Millsy - sub 2:50, 70-85 (with added back to back LRs)

    Southampton 26/4
    AWC - 2:59

    Comrades 14/6
    Millsy - No idea on time... yet
  • Hi Joe, always enjoy your blog - looking forward to Valencia next year (if I'm not bloody ill again). I must admit I live in fear of a public poop incident. It's one of my concerns about Tokyo. Last time I went there (10 years ago on a rollercoaster tour of South Korea and Japan) my colon came to a standstill for five days, and it was only the sheer terror of doing an attraction called a Sky Jump that involved jumping off a 400 foot tower while attached to a winch that got it to wake up again. Which it did, with a vengeance.

    Manchester 5/4
    SteveMac - ?? - P&D 18 week 50-70
    Cal Jones - 3:55 (if still in one piece after Tokyo) - 50-60mpw

    Brighton 19/4
    Jooligan - 3:0x, 70M inc a parkrun each week, some XC & a few other races I'd imagine

    London 26/4
    SQ - sub 3, 50mpw Mission plan
    SBD - sub 2:50, 70-85
    HA77 - 2:30, DIY 50-60mpw
    RunSpoonRun - TBD
    TR - operation sub 2:55, 18wk no doubles
    Hamo - sub 2.35 - P&D 18 week - 85 Miles plus
    JB - sub 5 - triathlon training
    Millsy - sub 2:50, 70-85 (with added back to back LRs)

    Southampton 26/4
    AWC - 2:59

    Comrades 14/6
    Millsy - No idea on time... yet

  • MaccatheknaccaMaccatheknacca ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    Joe - Re your target, I needed a laugh, thanks. Sounds like there might be a few more laughs in the report, will read later.

    I haven’t got round to congratulating Joe, DCT and Hamo for not so recent performances, well done and AWC, SQ and RSR for more recent.

    Welcome to the new folk, the list is starting to look very healthy.

    I’m in for Manchester and London but won’t put down a target yet.  My mums very ill at the moment so I’ll just keep plodding away whilst it feels a positive/the right thing to do.
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    Macca: sorry to hear about your mum. Take it easy and just do what you feel like doing I would say
    Cal/SBD: welcome to the thread
    Steve: kettlebells usually means sore butt for me. Good session
    8x400m intervals at lunch today. Felt pretty tough to be honest but keeps me honest in this off season period
  • Great to see the thread moving at pace!
    Thank goodness Joe is in town. Sandbagging pressure is off me!
    Really sorry to hear that, Macca. Running can, in the right circumstances, a great help during such times. Best wishes to you and her. 
    Nice intervals AWC and great to see a sub 3 target. 
    With stories like that, CJ, you’ll fit right in 😆. 
    Would love to do Comrades one year, Millsy. Excited for you.
    Good work on the kettlebells, Steve. They seem like a space and time efficient option for the home gym garage dream. 
    SBD I swapped quite a few early LTs for races of roughly the same distance. Got me very fit. Although I wonder if I peaked too soon as a result. 
    Blimey, John. Not good. Is it your own treadmill?

    5M this morning, including 10 x strides. Ran these as 20s on, 40s off along the route, rather than repeating a section/football pitch etc. Felt pretty clunky so definitely a good call to not yet have tried a session post-Telford. Weights with students this afternoon, including some rolling. Planning on an afternoon long run tomorrow. 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Joe - sub 5 ? Are you doing 2 laps?

    SBD - the 85m plan has more 20+ so agreed do more if you like esp with no doubles. I usually do 2 x mlr, but the harder work in P and D should do me good. There is a marathon talk interview around episode 200 with Pete Pf, he advises more strides and said you can do some on LT days before the LT effort too.

    Cal - marathon racing can be a rollercoaster, you just have to resolve to doing your best on the day. Sounds like you had a great 1/2 and the York.

    Macca - i feel for you, when my dad was poorly earlier in year it was tough for all. Best wishes to you and your family. Life isnt easy at times.

    SQ - hope you get some dry weather for your long run

    I was on the road early for a work trip today and had a long, crap day with driving and work issues. Dont think ive been more proud of 7m easy, after i had forced myself out the door at 7pm tired and hungry. Theres a bottle or 2 of IPA with my name on it later as due reward.
  • Best wishes to you & your Mum Macca.
    Joe is that 5 target a pace one? :p
    Cycled in to work then another TRunch for me: 5M progressive from 8-7 minute miling followed by an easy 10K jog back to the car after work. Guts interrupted both runs so clearly something amiss.  :s
  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    Forgot to also congratulate AWC on his win - any win is great but a marathon win is amazing.

    SQ - yes I got it a while back and use it mainly for recoveries but have run a few sessions on it this year and followed up with some good races so it must be doing me some good!

    Macca - all the best for you and your mum, run if you feel like it to clear your mind.

    Letsrun are doing a race of the decade feature and whilst it's heavily US focused, there's a great collection of clips of classic marathon and track races. Hard to imagine that in 2015 the marathon GOAT was still a debate, but my favourite has to be Wanjiru vs Kebede in Chicago: 
    https://www.letsrun.com/news/2019/12/race-of-the-decade-kipchoge-region-round-of-64/
  • Jooligan said:
    Guts interrupted both runs so clearly something amiss.  :s
    But had you had one of the special beers?
  • Joe - Surely that's a 5 min/mile target right  ;)
    SQ - Agreed, take up less space than barbell/dumbell option. I quite enjoy a 30 minute session with them.
    Macca - Sorry to hear about your Mom, the running might help you stay focused and clear your head at times.
    8 miles with strides today, was meant to be 10 strides but miscounted and did 12 some how!!
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    John - Love that Wanjiru vs Kebede finish. It does make me feel somewhat soft in comparison though. Surely it's between that and Rudisha at the London Olympics. Hope that smoke improves soon. 

    Macca - sorry to hear that. Hope you and your family are coping alright.

    SBD - I think that a weekly tempo is a great thing, provided it doesn't get in the way of other sessions. Last time around I did one most weeks, unless I was doing a faster long run. I don't think I'll do any 20+ mile runs. 

    Welcome Cal. I always think there are 2 types of runners, those who have had public poop incidents and those that are going to have a public poop incident. At least we know which group Jools is in.

    Joe - Nice target mate. You really know how to push the limits.

    Work and kids doing a panto show getting in the way of everything at the moment.
  • SBD....nice session, and circa 65 mile a week is a good base to start from.

    Cal...Nice long run at the weekend, esp if you are feeling a bit tired.

    Steve...Good workout, and extra strides :lol:

    Joe...loving those sand bags of yours :lol:

    Macca...Really sorry to hear about your Mummy, thinking of you both. Run as and when you want, as SQ says, it may well help.

    AWC...Nice honest intervals.

    SQ...Good strides, enjoy the long run.

    TR...Rightly so, you should feel proud of forcing yourself out. Hope the beer went down well.

    Jools..Nice treadmill work again. Hope the stomach issues settle quickly for you.

    John...Cheers for that link, enjoyable viewing.


    8 mile Recovery this morning.
  • No alcohol since the 1 beer Sunday evening let alone 'those' beers SQ so don't know what's up. Had to have a couple of G&Ts last night to settle them down :D
    HA No 20M runs? Brave call. Is that time constraints dictating training schedule or because you think they're unnecessary?
    John I love a good beasting on the treadmill but I'd hate to be doing recovery/steady stuff on one. Got to get out in the real word sometimes so 8 wet n windy miles along the canal first thing with 8x200m strides off 300m jog recovery in the last 3 miles then another treadmill session at lunch [email protected] min/mile off [email protected] + 1K wu & 1K cd = [email protected]:50 average. Just a steady 5M tomorrow to give my body a chance to absorb the training before my weekly parkrun fix.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    Jools - Hopefully I'll get in regular long runs up to 20 miles. For me, I don't consider further is necessary. Maybe other people recover better than me but I find an extra couple of miles really takes its toll on me.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    Fair enough HA. Certainly not worth ruining your legs for further training just to go an extra couple of miles. Jack Daniels certainly doesn't think it's worth going over 2h30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO1hQ_kplgo&safe=true
    And this on Runners Connect: "While there is no doubt that a 20-mile run (or longer) can be a great confidence booster, from a training and physiological standpoint, they don’t make too much sense. Here’s why:

    Research has shown that your body doesn’t see a significant increase in aerobic development, specifically mitochondrial development, when running over 90 minutes. The majority of physiological stimulus of long runs occurs between the 60 and 90 minute mark. This means that after running for 3 hours, aerobic benefits (capillary building, mitochondrial development) aren’t markedly better than when you run for only 2 hours."




  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Hamo - 2 x IPA, they were lovely. Didnt sleep well after finishing running at 8pm though.

    HA - tommy hughes said he only went up to 17m for his recent mara exploits, but he did it 3 days in a row !

    9m more for me this morning in the pissing rain.
  • Jools - no more than 2 hours, great. At current fitness levels that's about 12 miles. How's the toe now? No need for pictures...

    HA - I think it's been said before, but you always seem to have a great handle on what your body can and can't take.

    Macca - sorry to hear that, hope your mum's health picks up.

    John - hope everything is ok in Sydney. I agree on the treadmill, steady runs are impossibly boring, but setting a hard pace gritting your teeth and watching the HR go up can be perversely fun.

    SQ, TR, Spoons, Hamo, Joe - hopefully I'll share a beer with some of you after London in just over 19 weeks.

    AWC - your marathon win must have been covered in the last thread, top work

    SBD and Cal - Welcome to the thread

    So I was building back up and then hit a wall of Christmas festivities, some personal issues and a complete lack of caring for running. I suppose the positive was it wasn't an injury that side lined me. I've got back into it the past couple of days and my fitness has plummeted even from where it was a couple of weeks ago. I really think if I hadn't got into London I wouldn't even be considering doing a marathon next year. I'm hoping when the plan kicks in that the structure will get me consistently running again. I think I'll need to slog through January and then racing from February onwards should get me motivated. Anyway, hopefully that's not too much of a downer for everyone. I'm completely committed that after 2 failed marathon campaigns that I will not only be on the line, but also finishing. Although I'll likely be trailing Joe's 5 hours.


  • Manchester 5/4
    SteveMac - ?? - P&D 18 week 50-70
    Cal Jones - 3:55 (if still in one piece after Tokyo) - 50-60mpw

    Brighton 19/4
    Jooligan - 3:0x, 70M inc a parkrun each week, some XC & a few other races I'd imagine

    London 26/4
    SQ - sub 3, 50mpw Mission plan
    SBD - sub 2:50, 70-85
    HA77 - 2:30, DIY 50-60mpw
    RunSpoonRun - TBD
    TR - operation sub 2:55, 18wk no doubles
    Hamo - sub 2.35 - P&D 18 week - 85 Miles plus
    JB - sub 5 - triathlon training
    Millsy - sub 2:50, 70-85 (with added back to back LRs)
    Hydeparkrunner - finish before everyone has left the pub, 55-70 plan

    Southampton 26/4
    AWC - 2:59

    Comrades 14/6
    Millsy - No idea on time... yet
  • Morning all. 
    HA did you last spring? I remember you doing a few doubles that maybe covered that. Valid point about the extra toll and required recovery. 
    Welcome back, HPR. Hope you get back into the swing of things soon. 


    Carol service at work last night, so an opportunity for an afternoon long run. Pretty wet and at times windy, but it came good towards the end with some nice views toward the Malverns. 18.4M at 7:10 average. Wore my original pair of Vaporfly. I swear they were made of sterner stuff than the second (same) pair. 300M and going strong! Really enjoyed it. 
  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    Joe’s sub 5 prediction must also include swim & bike!

    HPR - hopefully the plan can just get you out of the door regularly and then no doubt you’ll start to enjoy it and remember why you do this. Book in those Feb races now and you’ll have something tangible to aim for. 

    HA - what pace will you do your 20 milers at? More of a Hansons style program this time around? 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Hope you get back to it nicely for vlm, Hyde.

    SQ - wow, great run. Youd sub 3 now given that run.  Will be interesting to see how far behind your 2.50 you are with less miles. Ive run similar times off low miles, it just hurt more on the day and left me messed up afterwards DOMs wise.

    14m cold and windy.
  • Sorry about your mum, Macca - ageing parents are always a massive worry.

    Felt like pickled shit yesterday so I just lounged around at home for the day and I felt a lot better this morning. Got out for an easy 6, which I'm glad to report was at my normal easy pace rather than the uber-slow pace I've been doing lately. I did make a point of waiting for daylight this time - I do think it affects me quite a bit.
  • Jools/Ha...that is interesting about the long runs. I think i get more out of them physiologically more than anything else. Always feel like i have to have them done to be more confident in a plan.

    TR...i find it hard to sleep after an evening run too. Nice MLR.

    HPR...look forward to it. Hope the training plan and races will gee you up over the next few months and you can rediscover the love. Your fitness will come flying back when you are at it again.

    SQ...Class pace over a long run.

    Cal...Glad to see the day off has helped, sometimes that's all we need.


    6m recovery with a few half arsed strides threw in this morning.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    Class LR SQ
    Good to hear Cal obviously a break to clear a bug has done the trick then.
    Did you mean psychologically rather than physiologically Hamo?
    It'll come back HPR - it'll be hard work & may feel like slow progress but stick with it.
    Finally feel like I've turned a corner fitness wise after a few proper weeks of training 50, 72, 68 & 49 (off 5 days) so far with a couple of workouts each week too. Just back from a breezy 5M along the canal. Legs felt great & HR vs pace was about as good as it's ever been rather than 10-15 bpm too high B) Shame the forecast for tomorrow's parkrun location has 50mph winds at 9am :o

  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Cal - winter training consists of a lot of box ticking at times.

    Jools - good to see you making some progress again.

    16m today, legs were a bit tired after ydays 14m. 76 for the week.
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