P&D Spring Marathon 2021

Good riddance 2020. Looking forward to 2021......
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  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Cal - well done, im pleased that you are happy enough with it. Theres training gains to be had. Onwards and upwards !

    Top chasing jools, run rate reducing. Jos Buttler would be proud of you.

    Macca - shame re the 6hr race. Top run rate reducing from you too. I note the category change, ill raise a beer to you next week.

    John - that run beats my run commute in the dark !

    Backed up ydays 11m with 9m back again this morning, was pretty sore by the end but im defo making progress (getting closer to the bonnet - macca). Christmas break will be good as i can run at the same time each day which gives optimum recovery.

    Im up to 7 marathon entries, couldnt resist the February Goodwood date, seeing as im msking some progress. if im not in shape I'll swap to the 1/2. But hopefully a low key sub3 off a 6 week build up.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Jools said

    Got to be happy with maintaining Saturday's 5K pace for a 10K Cal - Especially as you tend to back off a bit in the dark. Wise doing just the 3M today - recovery without destroying yourself before the 5K.
    Sounds great John. Good luck in the 5,000m
    Agree on optimum recovery being 22-24 hrs between runs TR. All these doubles are knocking me out from cumulative fatigue!
    4.5M at lunch with the rugby lads. We went out to a quiet dead end lane & smashed 3 short sharp hill reps sandwiched between a couple of longer reps which started with the hill then carried on for c.400m of false flat.Backed that up with 8M easy after work.
    Run rate is getting closer to 10 with just 222M from 21 days  
  • SQ...10 mile is very good mileage in a single run when you are coming back, good work.

    TR...Cheers for starting the thread, agreed hopefully 2021 is a better year all round. As above, 11 is more than decent for a run commute when you are edging back to full fitness, and well backed up too...the bonnet is definitely in sight. Class, you done right entering Goodwood, why not. I'm tempted by a low key marathon on 28th December myself, i have an entry from one that postponed in October (but i got my monies worth with the Tommy Hughes record attempt, so no loss if i don't run) which means no pressure and might be a bit of craic. All dependent on the hydration intake over Christmas i'd imagine though :flushed:  :lol: 

    Cal...Very good work at the 10k, as TR says, i'm happy you are happy with how it went. Keep that positive momentum up going into Saturday and you'll go very well in the 5k. Hope the hammy improves, sensible keeping the recovery to 3 miles between to races so close together.

    Jools...Good chipping, and nice hill work. Glad you found a loop like that close to home, i get the getting bored by the same stretch of road/canal every now and again, esp when the mileage is high.

    Macca...I might take your advice you know, Galway is a mighty place to spend a weekend :wink: :lol: Shame about the endurance race, but plenty of other age cat wins to come though. Happy Birthday for next week. That run rate looks very good now.

    John...I agree, women seem to pace a lot better than us eejits. That run sounds like a class way to start to any day. Hope the track 5k went/goes well (i'm awful at time differences :lol:)


    Double recoveries yesterday for me, 7 in the morning, 4 after work. This morning i ran my MLR (11 miles) at circa MP again, nothing to do with sleeping in of course :flushed:  :lol: . Same route as the last time i ran MP on 2 weeks ago, but 2 secs a mile quicker (avg 5.43's)...so happy with that.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    Jools  - hopefully you can switch to running once a day when school breaks up. Especially with the required run rate nicely under control.

    Hamo - yes, i though im getting closer to the bonnet so a mara entry would get the juices flowing to build back up longer runs. Nicely done in the 11, i did 11 too, im easing towards 2 x mlr and a long run.  No mp here though, more like mp +2mins. You could do that mara as a long training effort, but even if you push it, you bounce back quickly.

    11m, started in drizzle, last few miles it pissed down, better than having to aelf isolate though.

    Next Friday im donating blood plasma which will be tested to see if i have enough CV19 antibodies to become a regular donor (they give it to CV19 patients in ICU). If so then i might have to factor where is best in the week to do it as it might affect my running for a day or so. We'll see.
  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    TR - well done for pulling the trigger and starting a new thread, 2021 can only get better. Hope the blood donation goes OK. I’ve never done it but if you take it easy for a few days that should do the trick. 

    Hamo - at your level a training mara is probably not too hard to recover from so go for it. There’s something motivational about finishing the distance even as a training run, which you just don’t get with a 25 mile LR.  

    So a new experience tonight and great to see a new side of running. It was at the Sydney Academy of Sport so the track is very well maintained and bouncy. Lots of other races going on from 800m up. Seeing the A races made me appreciate how fast they can go and made me feel very ploddy and shuffly by comparison. 

    My race was a mix of casual runners , a large group going for sub 20 and a couple of faster guys. Wasn’t sure what to aim for, I’ve been running 17:30 pace in my TM workouts but no way I felt confident doing that outdoors. Settled for a target of 18:30, just outside my PB but with little specific speed training it felt doable. 

    3 guys raced off the line and I followed with around 84s for the first lap. Dialled it back after that and kept it close to 88-90s thereafter. Picked up a place early on and stayed there as the first 2 disappeared. Pretty much ran the whole race solo with a bit of a breeze and finished in 18:24. Hard work but happy with the time. Keen to do another when the opportunity comes up as you don’t feel ruined afterwards. May even start throwing in more strides. 

    As an aside I also used the track mode on my Garmin. Mightily impressed as it was spot on after calibrating. Worth giving it a go as it is so much more accurate - everyone else was getting 5.1-5.4km. 

  • hamo, I must admit I've had my share of pacing disasters. When I did Kingston half last year, I went off like an idiot (it didn't feel fast due to the adrenaline but I did the first mile at 10K pace) and then crashed and burned. Fortunately I'd enough of a buffer that I still managed a PB, but the latter stages felt awful - had stomach pains and everything.
    I ran the Farnborough half this January in the exact same time but paced that one a lot more sensibly and my last mile was the fastest. It felt a lot better, I can tell you.
    Great run from you today - rapid.

    TR, I'd take a drenching over cabin fever for sure. Good on you for donating.
    Must admit I'm not tempted by Goodwood or Dorney - I am thinking about having another crack at The Big Half though not sure how that will work with social distancing. Might leave it a bit and decide later.

    I had originally planned to rest today but as I only managed three slow miles yesterday, I went out early and did five more at recovery pace. I knew with it being dark, it'd keep my pace down and I was just under 12 minute miling again. While it's probably quite beneficial to do really slow runs on occassion, I can't help but be a bit horrified by my stride length and cadence when I look at the stats after. Eh well.

    A bit later I went to the gym and did some upper body stuff - more power cleans, bench, dumbell rows and stuff. Back up to the weights I was using before the lockdown, although a bit lower on reps.

    Walked home via the Streatham Lidl as the small one in Balham didn't have the cheap oats I usually buy, and that turned out to be rather dangerous as I also came home with two boxes of macarons and a tub of gingerbread ice cream. (Still, it was a 2 mile walk, and I was carrying 4kg oats, two litres of milk and a bottle of olive oil and the aforementioned treats for the last mile of that, so I guess that counts as training).
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    John - well done on the 5k, it'll do you good.

    Cal - im on slow running at the mo, its not a bad thing. I wouldn't waste the time and energy watching stride and cadence.

    16 for me today, was a shock to the legs, felt a very long way. But it means i can go 18m next week, and then 20 the following week.
  • Good effort, TR. Given I did 14 two weeks ago, I should be doing a 16 tomorrow but as I've got a half next weekend, I'm not going to. I'll see how my legs feel in the morning and go from there.


    A decent enough effort today, I think. Hammy was sore all night (my various injuries always feel worse in bed - I think that's half the reason I don't sleep well) the little bugger, but managed to roll it into submission. It was a midday race (the 10K was in the morning) so I had plenty of time to chill out before heading up to Stratford, and I didn't mind the comparatively late start given that 5K is over quite quickly.
    I saw a couple of Chasers when I got to the park, both a lot faster than me, but it was nice to have some company on the tube home.
    I'd decided that I would be happy to get a 25:xx given my current shape, especially as it turned out to be windier than I'd hoped and it's not a great PB course - some tight turns and a bit of undulation at the end of each lap.
    I was glad I was only doing two of the rather complex laps rather than 4 when I did the 10K before the last lockdown.
    Each lap consists of an out and back (with a hairpin turn) followed by a loop, then a different loop, and I remember feeling like I'd lost the will to live after doing two of those in the 10K and realising I had two more.
    I ran the first mile in 8:05 which isn't bad, but the second mile had the undulating bit and a couple of the tight turns so it came in a lot slower at 8:25. Last mile was 8:24 but I managed 8:00 pace for the final bit towards the finish.
    Still a way off my best but heading in the right direction.
    My chip time came in at 25:28 so I'm fairly content with that - a way off my best but heading in the right direction (for the record, cadence was 190!)
  • 12 miles today - almost a reverse of last week's route. Ran down via Tooting to Plough Lane, took the Wandle north to Earlsfield, then through King George's Park, onto the river and along to Battersea Park, round the park, up to Clapham Common and home from there. Didn't look at my watch for this one or worry about pace at all.
    There were a few stops for traffic and one stop in King George's Park to pet an incredibly cute and inquisitive puppy (he came right up to me so who was I to say no?)
    Took this one pretty easy and enjoyed it (even when it rained, which it did along the Thames stretch) but I started feeling tired when I got to Battersea. I took a different route through here, opting for the interior paths rather than the big carriageway I use for fast runs, and saw some nice ornamental things I usually miss.
    I did a little push up the steep bit of Latchmere to get it out of the way but was knackered after that. I've run six days in a row this week including two on Wednesday, and two races, so I am not surprised I am tired.
    One thing I have learned, though, is that I can run six days in a row if I go really frickin' slowly on the recovery days. I have been thinking of my recovery pace as 10:40-11 when really that should be slow easy, and recovery is almost 12 min/mi.
    Regardless, tomorrow is definitely a rest day.

  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Well done Cal, good that you are happy with yday, theres gains to be had. Nicely done on the 12 too. Defo take the easy days easy, i do loads of easy running.

    10 x 4mins for me today, done on the turbo, id done 6 running days in a row too. Another week or 2 and ill be back up to more or less full car bonnet. Still need to be careful with the lungs and niggles, but I'll put some 10% into a longer run in a couple of weeks and see what happens.
  • Well done at the race, Cal. Good kit decision and If you got for a P&D definition of LT being your maximum pace for 1h, then 53 mins at at this is a super effort. 
    I guess, Jools, the thing with double/triples rather than longer runs is all the extra transition faff. Keep chipping away. I break up on wednesday - are you Friday? Will arrange a morning in the Forest. 
    Sorry to hear about the race cancellation, Macca. No doubt you’ll find a suitable solo running challenge to celebrate. 
    Waiting for the track debrief, John!
    Strange to see the fast runners isn’t it, John. We must be in the top 1% but my god they are a different level! Great result from you. Unlucky to run solo. I thought you GPS track looked really accurate. A good watch feature. 

    42M for the week - continued pleasing progress. 
    Had to shift Friday’s session forward to Thursday: 5 x 3 min hill reps at 3-5k effort on the plan. Couldn’t find a suitable hill that long from work that wasn’t on a main road, so compromised with 6 x 2:30. Sure the running gods will forgive me. Started well, although I had timed it poorly and several hundred school children started descending for the final two reps. Shared some banter with them and carried on. I’ll use that as an excuse for my slowest reps on there in 96 attempts - by 20s 😳. 7.2M, 8:12 average, 636ft elevation. 
    Very slow 3M muddy recovery at 9:00 pace, then 5M buggy recovery on Saturday at a similar pace. 
    Social highlight of the month was meeting a friend for an early run this morn. Started in the dry and enjoyed chatting away. Gradually worked down from 8:20 to 7:00 pace, albeit with a 25 minute break after 7M. We saw a car that he just crashed - air bags up, front end crumpled and side on partially blocking a main road. The driver was dazed and shocked but seemingly unhurt. Helped direct the (little) traffic and look after her whilst the police were on the way. The heavens had opened by this time and we were very cold. The police were good and managed to elicit some information from the lady in a calm way. Unfortunately, she had just finished a night shift and said she fell asleep at the wheel. Hope she’s ok. The police took our details but then ruined it with a ‘alright lads, enjoy your jog’ 😆. 10.2 at 7:35 pace. Basically tempoed home as we were so cold by then. 
    Must work in summarising things slightly more concisely. 
  • And here’s a shout out to any lurkers - come and join in the chat. All are welcome here. 
    Think this is the first time I am on a Pfitzinger plan for the first time in three years. Albeit not a marathon plan 😆 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    SQ - i bet your pupils were impressed really. Top job with helping the motorist, well done. Shame to crash because of a nightshift.
  • Not my pupils, TR. Our school is firmly in the flatlands, as spoons will attest. This was a couple of miles away, but I snuck out in a free period before some meetings later. Got to squeeze runs in when you can 😆. 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Oh i see, oh well i bet theyd be impressed too especially if they tried themselves.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    Good to see your 5K time heading in the right direction Cal
    Casually beat my 5,000m PB there John. Excellent pacing.
    Good weekend of training TR.
    Great week SQ & quite a finale. Yes breaking up Friday at 1pm so if you fancy it Friday afternoon I’m free or Saturday morning. I’ve another fell race in the afternoon.
    Did a fell race (TT style) yesterday. Just 2.5 miles but almost 1500ft climb in the 1st mile, then back down in a longer, shallower loop through the bracken before rejoining the ascent route for the final K. It’s a right mix of terrain with 300m of tarmac from the start to the canal which you go under through a low tunnel, up the old dramway for 500m to the fell proper which is where the serious climb kicks in. Proper hands on knees power-stepping. The dramway still has the rocks which held the rails in place but they’ve shifted around & are covered in wet leaves n mud so they’re lethal when descending. We were set off at 30s intervals. I was off 17th (of 30). I caught 8 on the ascent & 1 more on the descent & unusually held the gaps till the finish. Ended up 6th & 1st MV50 from the 1st race. There was a 2nd wave an hour later. The top 3 were quicker than me including 2 MV50s so 9th overall. Apparently I was 5th fastest on the ascent but 16th on the descent! Pleased with this the result given all the miles I’m piling in. I’d already done an easy 11K that morning then a 1 mile shakeout immediately before my start.
    Backed that up with a hilly 14.6M of tarmac lanes today in the wild, wet n windy weather to bring up 89 for the week & 173 for the month so far. 186 still required so daily run rate down to 10.33 😎
  • TR - thanks for kicking us off in 2021. Sounds like you are sensibly recovering well.  The 16m will have reminded your body what a LR was,  as you say, 18 then 20 will only be a percent or two more effort.

    SQ - Enjoyed the report, I know what you mean, a couple of ideas/thoughts start to look like War and Peace on here.  Impressed with your return to fitness too.

    Well done Cal, It sounds like you’ve had a really good week, entitled to feel a bit tired,  As others imply, you can’t run recoveries too slowly imho, I like the idea of finishing them feeling better than you started.

    John - good work on the track.  I bet someone was watching you wondering how to guys run that fast !

    Hamo - a training Mara sounds like fun, keep you honest on Xmas day if nothing else (who are we kidding😉).

    A decent 5k for me Sat in 18:16 followed by [email protected] today.  I regretted the 5k effort in the first MP mile when effort v reward was disappointing but pace thereafter picked
    up for a pleasing 6:20ave, P&D week 2
    done.  I’ve an eye on a post Xmas 5 mile
    race and a very soft PB
  • TR...Fair play to you donating the plasma, hopefully it'll not affect your running week too much. Well done on the 16 miler, the gateway to the proper long run distances :lol: All signs pointing up for you, i'm, sure the +10 work will go well.

    John...Excellent work on the track 5k, class time, going better than you aimed for is always a good result, and well done on the podium finish.

    Cal...It will be very interesting to see how the big half deals with social distancing etc, and it might give a bit of an insight into how London Marathon is going to be (hopefully not, and the vaccine will have sorted it all out and we'll be back to normal by then though :lol:). Good work on the 5k, and glad you are happy with it. You aimed for 25 mins, you got it, on a windy, bumpy, twisty course...whats not to like, well done. 

    SQ...Big week. Lovely hill reps, they are tough work even without children abusing you half way up :lol: That is one hell of a Sunday run, lovely that you had company again, not so lovely the car crash. Poor woman, hope she is ok. Fair play stopping and helping, and good restraint on not slapping the policeman for his jog comment :lol: 

    Jools...Excellent work on the fell race, i enjoyed the "just 2.5 mile" remark, with 1500ft in the first mile that is brutal :lol: Brilliant placing, and well done on the age cat win, cant be bad to that at all. Love how you back up a fell race with a hilly 14 miler, mad but class :flushed: :lol: 

    Macca... :lol: Christmas day is more about the food, boxing day and the football is a different story altogether :wink: and where the honesty goes out the window :lol: That is a fast weekend from you, class work as always on the fly 5k and backed up brilliantly by 8 @ MP. Get after the 5 mile pb is my advice.


    9 miles with 2 sets of 6x100 strides on Saturday morning where backed up with a 22 (ish) mile long run on Sunday to give me 85 for the week.

    I bit the bullet over the weekend and entered Wrexham, so today was the start of the plan... 6 and 5 recovery miles before and after work.

    Hoping 2021 plays ball :lol:
  • Good call re Wrexham Hamo
    That’s a lot of hard running in 2 days Macca. Quality paces too.
    Kept ahead of the daily run rate with a double today. Swiftish 5.2M with the rugby lads at lunch then 12K easy commute back - I biked in this morning too. Legs felt great in spite of the weekend’s efforts 😎
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Jools - well done at the weekend, bscked up today too, your legs are steely at the mo.

    Macca - excellent mp running, 6.20s is nice. Esp the day after a 5k blast.

    Hamo - well done on Wrexham, i eondered if you were in, i saw they were nearly full and have attracted lots of quick runners. It will be a great race for you to be part of. You must have 18 or 19 wks ?

    A dark and rainy 13m for me tonight.
  • Jools...Nice double to keep the batting average up. Shows what shape you are in when your legs are feeling good.

    TR...Yea, i have 19 weeks. I'm starting a week early to allow for a few days off over Christmas. Dark, rainy 13 mile MLRs are a sure fire clue to being into marathon training, well done.

    Hope AWC is keeping well? I see Spoons, Joe, Steve and Millsy are still training away on strava anyway.


    10 miles with 4 at LT pace this morning, the 4 averaged 5.29 min miling so a good session all round. Will double it up with a 4 mile recovery after work.
  • SQ - saw about the crash on Strava - glad she was alright. "Jog". :D

    hamo, good job - fingers crossed now for next year's races. Great LT sesh.

    Jools, you must have superb powers of recovery. Pass some to me eh?

    TR, I wouldn't fancy that. Then again, 13 miles at an easy pace takes me around 2 hours 20 so that'd be my whole evening gone.

    Just 6 this morning. Lovely weather, but legs felt heavy.


  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    Hamo - you have enough time for the full 18 wks then. Plus you are starting from a great level of fitness. Well done on the LT run, its been a lonh time since i ran quickish in training.

    Cal - on the days i run home, i start early so i can be running by 4.30pm, and therefore can get it all done earlier. After Christmas the game is to get as much done as possible before it gets dark, which for a while is zero.

    8m run commute back in this morning, started off wet and by 2m in it was pissing down, but luckily it eased off a bit.
  • Might struggle with Friday and Saturday, Jools, but thank you so much for prompting it. Where is the fell race? Amazing effort at the weekend. Outrages climbing to distance ratio.

    Hope you get a chance to let rip at Wrexham, hamo. Nice LT. 


    The plan called for 6 x 300m (800m-1M pace) with 300m jog recoveries. Without access to a track, I substituted with 1 minute all out, 2 minute jogs. Went for 8 reps as I have been keeping half an eye on the next plan up. Good to try to go really fast - great fun. Nice to see a spot of sub 6 pace in there as well. God knows how I have run a half marathon at that pace. All in 7.21M at 7:21 average pace 😎. 

    I reckon for once following a plan for a shorter distance will do me some good in the long term. 

  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    SQ: shame about the weekend. I'm off to Devon Sunday until after Xmas. Can't do Saturday morning either unless it's early doors as fell race starts at 11am. It's Skirrid, just outside Abergavenny: only 3.5 miles & 1100' so a gentler affair than Blorenge.
    Bad luck on the weather TR.
    Nice LT pace Hamo.
    Legs were like lead this morning :D but I was lucky enough to get a cracking morning for my 10K commute in & even nicer for my lunchtime 10K. Even held dry for a very pleasant 20K bike back this evening.
    Not going to be so lucky tomorrow :s 
  • Jools - Apologies, I missed your post of 13th, I may have been wearing the beer goggles.  Brilliant sounding fell race and love the morning warm up. Great work on the run rate.

    SQ - it probably doesn’t feel like it to you but your return to a bit of speed is very impressive.  I was only thinking the same about hm pace for 13 miles the other day.

    Cal - heavy legs are probably last weeks races and miles flushing themselves out.  Incoming Strava stalker request.

    TR - 13+8 looks a decent start to the week. You’re going about recovery the right way, I’d be surprised if you’ve lost much endurance and the speed will come back with a bit of work.

    Hamo - agree with TR, you’re in a good place pre plan, look forward to following the journey to Wrexham. 

    Inspired by Hamo & P&D it was also LT day for me. It feels like I’ve run quite a bit at effort last 7 days so 6 min milling was pleasing for the 5 and there or thereabouts with 2018 and 2019 equivalent sessions.  Run rate down to just below 7.


  • xpost again Jools, “legs were like lead” - so you squeezed 20k out of them then 20k on the bike, love it.
  • Cal...Nice 6 in nice weather.

    TR...Nice run commute, shame about the weather. Though i don't mind running in the rain (up to a point) when i am running home, quite enjoy it at times actually, but that's the sadist in me :lol:

    SQ...1 minute all out is a good substitute alright. Sharp reps too, good work. Following a shorter plan will add speed to the legs, which will bode well for when you start to add marathon miles for sure.

    Jools...Best of luck with the fell race on Saturday. Agree completely with Macca, love the dead legs but still ran and biked, class :lol:

    Macca...You definitely have ran a good few miles at effort over the last week, so the fact that your LT was quick and in line with previous years is a very good sign. Run rate is very promising too.


    12 mile MLR this morning. The 1st 3 miles where  into a 40 mph headwind and had me questioning my life choices, but strangely enough everything was better when i turned the corner and the wind was to my side and on my back :lol:


  • SQ, I never know how I can run a half marathon at my HM pace - it feels like 5K pace when I do it in training.

    Well done on the LT, Macca.

    hamo - 40mph! :o There were a few gusty bits on my run but nothing like that.

    10 miles this morning - lovely sunny weather (it's clouded over now, though - rain forecast for later) which made it mostly enjoyable apart from getting stranded on a traffic island a few miles from home and pacing up and down angrily and swearing while I waited for two streams of traffic to go. :D
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    SQ - 1 min all out pace shows you are nicely rehabbed. Nice.

    Jools - nicely on schedule. Some Devon based training over Christmas sounds great to me.

    6mm is cracking Macca , good comparison with 2018 and 2019 given the your previous running this last week.

    Hamo - made me smile, we all ask the same questions of ourselves......i remember running along the seafront on one winters long run in pissing rain, saw some beach fisherman out in the filthy weather and said to myself "look at those nutters fishing in the pissing rain on a winters morning".....

    Cal - running tourettes !

    12m run home tonight, only rained for the first few miles.
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