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P&D Spring Marathon 2021
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Cal - sorry to hear about your injury woes knowing how much you enjoy getting out for your daily run. Fingers crossed you can get it properly fixed with some R&R and come back stronger and more resilient.
Macca - unique way to start a taper but it definitely works for you! Great work knocking out an ultra and seems to work really well for your high mileage approach. You should follow CJ Albertson on Strava, he's a 2:11 marathoner who does lots of crazy challenges just because he can. Yesterday he did 50k on the TM in 3 hours and last week 80k in 6 hours
Jools and SQ - will be great to follow your build ups, almost starting to feel normal here on the forum again. 6 weeks is a decent block to prep if you've got the base like you both have.
Talking of normal, here's my weekend race report.
Followed P&D 70-85 12 week plan pretty closely since Christmas and it was good to get a full block in. Managed to run almost all the sessions, some took a couple of goes though as I feel I need regular racing to maintain sharpness. Was encouraged by the paces I was able to hit and if I had to guess I was probably in 2:55 shape. However that was irrelevant as the Six Foot Track has hardly any flat parts, almost 5,000ft elevation but is net downhill. Here's the profile:
Sat morning was an early start, up at 3am for porridge, check the weather (hot and humid) and on the road by 4am for the 2 hour drive. Still dark when I get to the Blue Mountains where the start is and after parking up, we jump on a coach (with masks) for the short hop to the start line.
Waves with a rolling start is now the new normal, which is good as after few hundred metres the trail narrows and it's single file down wet uneven steps for a mile. I managed to avoid any trips any tip toe down to the bottom, the elites were bombing down at crazy speeds. The trail then widens out for some nice flat open track although it was till misty down in the valley so early. Passed a runner walking back shortly after, probably carrying an injury and hoping at the start it wouldn't hamper him, it would have been a slow deathmarch back up the steps with 800 runners charging down.
We crossed over a few stiles through fields and open meadows, the scenery for this part is stunning. At 10km it narrows back to single track but it's a gradual downhill and flows very nicely. I was in a long line all moving at the same rapid pace, it felt like we were flying down the trail and because you just focus on the runner in front it felt effortless. This was my favourite part of the entire race.
After 5km of this we reach the river crossing. The day before had brought thunderstorms so now the river was chest high. There's a rope across that you can hold onto and I certainly needed it. Immediately after exiting you start climbing and it goes up and up and up. Probably a relentless 10-15% and whilst most walked I tried to keep up a slow tap tap jog. It was marginally faster and I made sure that any time my HR went above 180 I just walked until it dropped back to 170. There's a brief 2km of downhill when I realised my quads were going to suffer later on before resuming the climb for another 3km at up to 20%. My slow jogging actually got me a decent split for this section which I was happy with as last time I remember it just seemed to go on forever.
At one point I heard a woman ahead shout something back but couldn't hear her. After passing a couple of runners walking up they suddenly shouted that they had spotted a red bellied snake by the side of the trail. I had managed to go straight past it somehow, probably best that I didn't see it!
I reached 25km at the top and this is where veterans say the race starts. The next 15km is rolling trail but this is where you either make up or lose time. I was able to keep up my slow jog for most of it, a few overtook me otherwise I was alone. I felt a bit dizzy during this part maybe due to lack of nutrition (I had a couple of gels and occasional Tailwind at aid stations) but ploughed on. A brief rain shower was refreshing and a few more steep hills before crossing back into single track for the last 7km. Other runners were starting to come back to me and managed to keep a steady pace along the only relatively flat section. What I noticed was a few older runners powering past, clearly experience and patience pays off in this race.
Eventually I reached the last downhill and it is steep, dropping 1200ft in a mile. This is were you have to squeeze whatever you have left in your quads and just smash it downhill. It's still quite rocky and narrow here, with a drop off on one side into the valley so you don't want to take a tumble! I felt like I was really motoring down like Kilian Jornet but checking my pace afterwards it was more of an amble at 10 min/mile. You can hear cowbells and the announcer from about 10 mins away, then the roofs of the houses come into view, making it feel like you're almost right on top of them. The last part is a paved switchback and down the last few steps before turning for the finish.
I had not looked at my time at all during the race and I saw the clock at 4:58. This was the icing on the cake, with me starting 2 mins after the elites that meant a 9 min PB. In actual fact I originally had aspirations of going under 4:30 but when I saw I was behind from the start I dropped that goal early on. Just to get under 5 hours given my training and the weather on the day was a result. And to cap it all off I felt reasonably OK, last time I was in a proper state of exhaustion. The race was won in 3:21 and I ended up about 130/800. Loved the experience of racing again, tough one to get right but grateful to be a part of it. Not sure if I will do it again next year but it's one of those where experience counts, so never say never.
Now back to some fast road training with a 10k hopefully in early May, then a HM and target race is Gold Coast marathon in July (only 15 weeks away!)
Macca - top work on the 50k, as before your legs are steely, hopefully you'll be fine if you took it easy enough........agreed, i think i did a few weeks where i chased the +10% pace to closely to mp, that and a few tempo runs smoked me a bit.
Hamo - i was impresed with the 13mp and was thinking itd be a good long run when inc wu and wd, and then you do 22m. Shows your legs are pretty steely too.
John - great run, great read, avoiding snakes isnt on my long run list of dos and donts.........great way to start your marathon build up !
15m commute home tonight. Monday night mlr and no rain, hail, ice or wind, most strange.
Classic Macca. Sounds like it was an enjoyable 50K
Go easy Hamo. 13@MP + an undulating 22M sounds like a recipe for exhaustion. Wrexham is looking likely to go ahead so you want to be fresh & hungry enough to get the most out of yourself.
You’ve recovered well then TR if you’re knocking out another 15M already.
A lovely day so I biked 7 miles each way to work - minimal effort job.
Just 6M recovery this evening along the local lanes. Caught a cracking sunset from the highest point. Tried to avoid the big hills but still found 535’ 🤣
I was reading about the possibility of fans being allowed to watch the FA Cup Final but that they might have to be local fans due to travel restrictions. This minimise travel point still needs some clarification.
Hamo - realised I missed your quick MP run and 22M in the bank. You must feel in good shape for Wrexham now things are becoming clearer?
TR - yes I’d like to say it’s uncommon to encounter snakes but there are lots of stories that say otherwise. You’ve probably heard the IRP boys say how they avoid trails in summer, the Aussies are definitely scared of brown snakes (and funnel webs, red back spiders, cows, crocs...). I once saw a huge snake by the side of a main road just casually taking its time crossing!
Spoke too soon, the HM I was targeting got postponed due to crowd restrictions so will just roll through Mara training.
Rare rest day here, i contacted the phys to see if they open apr 12th, and they re open now and been vaccinated, so im going in for a hammy mot later.......booked my CV jab for next week too, the NHS app is letting 050s book now.
I feel in "so-so" shape if i'm honest. Still nothing concrete with Wrexham, and travel looks to be a bit of a problem both "legally" and with lack of flights/hotels etc, so haven't fully committed mentally to it which is worrying me slightly, esp as i could be doing with shedding a few lbs
TR...Nice MLR, bound to be near the end of them now? Good news on both the jab and fizz.
Jools...Noted. Nice easy running, still some amount of elevation
10 miles with 10x100 strides for me this morning in glorious weather, one of those morning when you are just glad to be out running.
Back and hammies freed up, will take an easy commute run in tomorrow.
Hamo - a couple of good sessions there, the MP and then LR. I was thinking today that pinning the whole training block on one race is a big ask (for me anyway) without a bonus raced half or 10k so get the committing mentally thing, like the attitude though. Speaking of travel, I ran past Luton airport on Sun and seeing all the orange EasyJet tail fins parked up was a bit surreal.
TR - good work with the 15. Glad the hammies freed up and good news on the jab.
Jools - avoiding hills and still finding 500+ft🤣
Legs felt quite springy for today’s 5x600m so hopefully the 50k hasn’t taken too much more out of them than the prescribed 22m would have done. Other than this weekends 10k tune up and maybe next weeks 3x 1 mile, there’s not a lot left to get into a sweat over. I saw Wokey announce a Sept date which I would
love to do but Autumn is looking a bit rammed atm, Boston Ma. also raised my interest but see Wokey.
No idea how you manage pace & mileage so well Macca.
Yesterday’s recovery worked so I repeated the formula but with a slightly shorter commute (6 rather than 7) & a 5K jog with the kids at lunch. Only one of them had run at all during lockdown so it was very stop/start & sedate so probably the closest I’ve come to junk miles. Legs were certainly fresher tonight’s 6M - almost 90s quicker but HR was 1 bpm lower 😎
Toying with doing a session tomorrow or a tempo Thursday so I’ll probably end up doing both 🤣
Macca...I agree, i am missing the "bonus" races that you get in a plan as tune ups, you are normally training for a half, a few 10ks and a marathon all in the one block. Surreal is a good word for it, our "international" airport, hasn't had an actual international flight in months, and is closed a few days a week at the minute due to lack of flights...mad. Lovely 600's, good sign that the legs felt good after the 50k. I'm guessing you will TT the 10k this weekend (obviously incorporating a fly 5k into it
Jools...
I had a planned marathon paced MLR this morning. I was a bit apprehensive that it was a bit soon after Saturdays 13 @ MP (that i shoe horned into the plan), but decided to give it a crack and see how i got on, with the proviso that i could cut the MP short and just run the 15 as normal. So 15 miles all in, with 4 x 5k @ MP off a 1k float. First mile at pace, almost straight out the door, was a bit on the slow side, but afterwards the legs seemed to wake up, and get used to working and it turned into a good session. The 5k splits where 18:08, 17:56, 17:57 and 17:54, so I averaged 5.46/7 min miles for the efforts, and 4.11 per k float (6.44 m/m). The legs don't actually feel to bad after it either, so a positive morning.
Jools - that double session would be a tough double, well done on showing the pupils the way, i bet they give you good respect when you are out of earshot
Hamo - youve got steely legs too, and some recovery powers ! Top work.....goodwood is same day as Wrexham.
EA updated with a proposed return to T and F, it onl shows local comp before May 23rd and has the minimise travel point. We need the givt update on 22nd to say if roadmap is on target for march 29th and then runbritain to clarify minimise travel.......even then whilst Goodwood is about 15m away, its in a different county to me.
Legs were sore and fizz said take it easy so only 5m easy commute today. My week has been, 6, 15, 0 and 5. Bit of a mini break !
I expect your body will thank you for it TR.
We could all be racing a marathon on the 25th then 🤞
Easy 4.5M at lunch with a Y11 who’s working towards his gold DofE. Right hammy grumbling a little by the end so canned the idea of a track session in favour of a broken tempo on my newly minted 6M loop.
Hammy feels no better or worse for the workout but I’ll see how it feels tomorrow before deciding what run to do. Should probably keep it easy as I’m having my jab straight after work.
Jools...Lovely tempo-ing, and CR smashing on a hilly route. Hopefully the hamstring isn't too badly affected with the efforts.
6 and 5 recovery miles for me today.
Hamo - yes, need next weeks update. I have my jab next week which is another thing to sway me towards Goodwood as the jab might rough me up as i had CV in November.
10m tonight, after a light week so far i had an achey ankle out of nowhere !
Rocking the ice pack & roller TR.
No problematic post-vaccine symptoms here yet. Easy day tomorrow though.
Backed up last nights 10m with 10m inc 12x3min this morning, rep 10 or 11 included some killer whippet having a pop and putting a hole in my shorts and teeth marks in my hammy, didn't break the skin though.......weeks mileage looking a but better with the recent 20, now on 46 with tomorrows long run to go.
Good work on the 3 min reps, how did the ankle take them? That's wild, hope you are ok? Good thing the dog didn't break the skin, but not good at all...what did the owner say/do? Not what you need in the middle of the reps, but i'd imagine you would have sped up when the whippet was coming so maybe done you a favour 🤦♂️
Jools...Great news on the vaccine, and fingers crossed you keep on with the lack of after effects. Wouldn't be like you to smash a tempo straight after it all the same
Last LT of the plan for me this morning, and like 2 weeks ago it was meant to be a straight 7 miles at LT pace, but i changed it out to the "faster road racing" session of 4 mins fast (above LT pace) , 4 mins steady (below, but not too much, LT pace) followed by 6x (2 mins fast, 4 mins steady). The session went well, though reps 5, 6 and 7 where definitely wind effected, as once i turned (out and back route down the tow path) i was met with quite a strong headwind (strangely didn't notice it when it was a tail wind 😉
As usual though the 3 miles of cool down home, up the hill from the tow path where brutal, you just want to be finished at that stage
Hamo - another solid MP session, I think you earnt the 6+5 recovery double. Yes, I’ll slip the the Fly 5k into the 10k - I’ve run 43 consecutively, sometimes part of a longer run, but usually full ish beans.
TR - well done on the 10m backed up with the 10m. P&D has me for 69m this week so looks like you are in a similar ball park. Not good on the dog but could have been worse. There’s a park near me where some dogs/owners are such a nuisance I’m almost put off running there.
6m today, hardly seems worth lacing up for but apart from the 2 50kms and missing 1 4m RR double run I think I’ve run every session albeit not always on the prescribed days. Eagerly anticipating news on Monday but steeling myself in case it’s “sometime week commencing 22nd”.
Macca - i defo get wftp with 6m recoveries, so go longer but then end up all smoked like recently, defo got to start respecting my age a bit more through this summer with a big autumn on the horizon.....unfortunately i think runbritain will take a few days after Boris's statement on monday, as before i have the goodwood fallback (which could still be hit by any stay local point) and if the jab roughs me up I'll defo drop Dorney, as whilst i didnt have many CV symptoms in November it defo affected my fitness for a while. I dont want to be running a mara a few % off the boil.
Impressive reps as ever Hamo.
Nicely done keeping at the Fly 5Ks. You’ve lasted better than me Macca - I’ve lost the love of solo (not)parkruns: only done 3 since NYD. I do only count them on actual courses mind. Looking forward to the return of the real thing.
Thoroughly enjoyed my 6.5M recovery yesterday personally. Felt a bit off all day which I put down to after-effects of the jab. Legs had been seriously underpowered on my minimal 6M bike commute in & out. Set out prepared to bin off the run if the effort felt like it was going to be excessive. In the end I ran a pleasing 8:14 pace on undulating trails with easy-peasy HR.
Doing another LSR with my clubmate tomorrow so fancied something a bit more taxing today so a hilly (1660’ climbing) 13.7 miles@7:23 for me. Hammy was fine after a good going over yesterday & this morning. Lower back started to tighten on the first climb & was threatening to spasm from there on, especially on the steep descents so could definitely have shaved a couple of minutes off. I blame bashing out far too many press-ups before running. Average HR was below MP effort though so bodes well for Shepperdine in 5 weeks. 😁
Just 78M & 7,000ft this week in 10 runs: 1 LSD, 3x Tempo & 6 proper recoveries - short & easy.
Ouch TR - I get scared of dogs, even though I know they are usually fine.
Some big miles going in across the board - especially from TR, Jools, hamo and Macca. Good work everyone, especially with some pacy efforts in there too.
64M for the week. Took me until Friday to feel recovered from last Saturday’s absolute battering from the wind. I’m sure that was more global fatigue as well - and possibly some mental scarring 😆.
So, just easy and recovery running Sunday to Thursday. Bit of a grubby Achilles. When I got on one of the spiky balls for some rolling, it actually seemed the upper calf was tight - so perhaps a referred pain. Some intensive rolling and calf raises, combined with only easy running and adding in some heel inserts seemed to do the trick. Although I haven’t yet been brave enough to don anything aggressive like the Adios.
Session light on Friday - 3 x 4 x 45s fast along the canal.
Buggy long yesterday. Perfect really. Long nap, light winds, great temperature. Got really into the flow towards the end. 183M at 7:39 pace for easy HR - low 130s.
Had to do some child juggling in Wells today, and managed to get out for recovery run. Bit of a wine and food hangover, so took it very easy, but decided to explore the golf course, assuming no one would tell me off. Really nice paths within the course, but more importantly found loads of linking public footpaths. Next time we are there, I’m definitely going to plan out a proper trail run.
My friend is keen to run his first marathon in over a decade, and is on the verge of entering Peterborough - end of May. Wants to bank a solid 3:20 before trying to get closer to 3 in due course. Have offered to pace him. Am suddenly really up for it. Shouldn’t be too taxing (famous last words), and would give a nice reason to run long once before the autumn marathon. Quite nicely, yesterday’s buggy long was only 1s/M off this pace!
SQ - excellent buggy run. Ive been walking the dog on the holf course sometimes, shame the golfers will be back next week. The mara sounds good, good training effort at around mp +60secs,,should be comfy, good to help yr mate too.
TR...Nice time on feet long run. An easier week will have done you no harm at all.
Jools...Glad the recovery run went well, esp with not feeling tip top before it. Lovely hilly half, and good news that the hamstring behaved itself, and backed up well with a good LR. "Just" the 7000ft this week
SQ...Nothing wrong at all with a few days of easy/recovery running, esp with a grumbling achilles. Glad it has sorted it out for you. Lovey long run, and hungover exploration run too. Fair play with the pacing offer, as you say, shouldn't be too taxing and will set you up nicely for the start of a block for Autumn.
TR/Macca... I hear that "minimise travel" has been changed to "travel allowed for competition/training", has to be a good sign for Dorney, no? Have you heard anything from the organiser? Still favouring Goodwood TR, or has this swung it?
Stride Saturday as usual for me, with 10x 100 in a 10 miler. Followed this up with my 2nd fasted over distance long run. 28 easy paced miles again completely fasted with only 4x salt tablets and water for fuel. Felt ok, better than last time i'd say, heart rate was lower anyway for the same pace and this was hillier than the last, so good signs. That finished my week up at 111 miles.
6 mile recovery yesterday, I was meant to double it up, but as i was off work (to bring the kids back to school for the first time since Christmas, they where delighted to get back) i spent all day lying about eating and couldn't really be annoyed going back out again...so i will just shoe horn it in another night this week, no harm no foul.
9 GA miles this morning, will be followed up by another 9 (incorporating 6x800 reps) after work this evening.
Jools - logging the miles and CRs well, look after that back and I think you’ll be in decent nick for Shepperdine. It’s funny, I was never motivated to log runs with not Parkrun but Fly has a but more community feel about it (on FB).
TR - a decent time on feet 22. Hope the jab goes well this week.
Hamo - another big over distance run at the end of a big week. I don’t know the science behind them but I take some confidence from slipping one or two into training as long as they don’t wipe you out and if sounds like you’ve handled them well.
Another solo TT 10k for me last weekend backed up with a reasonable 18m Sunday. Legs felt it Monday so having rubbished 6 milers last week I was pleased it was a 6m RR. It’s a shame I didn’t do any solo 10k TTs last year or the year before to compare with as without a raced half I’m not sure exactly what shape I’m in - a nice problem to have with the prospect of races on the horizon.
Re Dorney - with the amendment to Sport England’s “allowed to travel to competition” I’m quite optimistic. The organisers say they are just waiting for confirmation from the governing bodies. Last week didn’t really feel like a taper (79 miles ooops, a vo2 session, a 10k solo raced) so a taper week this and next won’t do me any harm either way.
Those fasted over distance LRs aren't in P&D are they. Are you being coached now?
Lovely 6M recovery yesterday evening. Felt really good in spite of 2x 6x200m on the track at lunchtime. Hammy has responded really well to the extra loading of tempos & hills