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Kinda missing the young rapscallion.
thanks, dodge, am now bleary-eyed from skimming through it all. very interesting read.
Im injured and have not run since a 5k on 31st July. Need to book in with a podiatrist an get an assessment, probably some insoles. Been attending physio with little improvement. Symptoms are inflamation on both metatasal heads and really stiff painfull feet in mornings.
Been having a right laugh.
There was one question I never quite popped beforehand (to Mike, not Stiffer that is)and so I'll get it in now if I may as currently eyeing a 2005 LM entry
My one and only marathon to date was the LM in 2003. My final long run was 22 miles about 3 weeks before the day, following the perceived wisdom in a whole host of schedules that all seemed to recommend that. But on race day having reached 20 miles in 7 min miling pace I got slower and slower (suffering badly to boot) completing the last 10k in 58 minutes.
When I sat down and thought about where it all went wrong, I put it down to not being conditioned to run further than 22 miles. Although I have been running for many years the final training run of 22 miles was the furthest I'd run.
And then I wondered why none of the training manuals suggest doing a final training run in excess of 26 miles, or at least equal to that that distance. To me it makes sense as you would then ensure that your body knows physically and mentally it can handle the distance, instead of relying on hanging on when going into the unknown.
Any thoughts much appreciated.
However, I feel the problem with most schedules is they assume you are starting from a low base and build you up to your longest run just before marathon day. The problem with this is that you do only a few long runs and your body will not go through sufficient adaption for your to be really prepared.
It is necessary to turn the accepted wisdom on it's head and start out with the long runs so that you do many of them in the 16 week build up period. Most established athletes will keep the long run going 52 weeks of the year unless they have a race. This way your body has plenty of time for adaption to the needs of endurance running - physiologically it is not necessary to do a long run further than 20 miles or so, it may be that you just didn't recover from your 22 miler 3 weeks out.
In any event, thanks for the feedback, it explains a fair bit and certainly a tip to be utilised re training for the LM 2005
I think that most people who blow up in the last few miles do so not due to a lack of long runs so much as because they have run the previous miles to fast.
They do this because it feels easy as they have done too much of their training faster than MP.
The blood lactate has gone too high (despite still being primarily aerobic) and the body is forced to slow down at the end.
Just my thoughts...
I think improving lactate dispersal is an important part of training even for a marathon since even at moderate pace lactic will build up due to general fatigue towards the end of the race when you will start to recruit the help of fast twitch muscle to help out the tired slow twitch ones.
I think training needs to be balanced so that the steady running is steady and kept below race speed and speed work is fast and quicker than race speed - most people do too much of their training stuck at a midway pace. The first builds up the aerobic base and cardio-vascular system, once that is in place faster running will improve the removal of lactate and carbon dioxide.
Speed work without building the aerobic base first will not have a significant effect, so the base training must be put in first then the fast interval work introduced in the last 8 weeks. The classic session for elite marathoners is 20 x 400m at 5km pace with 100m jog recovery. This encourages the production of lactate and the swift dispersal of it from the muscles during the short recovery and should result in raising the threashold level.
However, the two types of training do not need to be done exclusively, i.e just aerobic running & then just anaerobic running, it is the balance or emphasis that changes with peaking. So even during base training you should be doing some interval and tempo work, and while peaking for a race you should maintain the long steady aerobic runs.
At a GB squad weekend way back in 1981 the Nat. coach (Don Shelley) suggested that the components needed to run a good marathon were:
Long run at steady pace (70% effort - 90% of total training)
Tempo runs (at threashold)
Interval Runs at 10 & 5km pace.
Interval runs at mile speed (in the last 8 weeks).
From this I worked out a simple programme which I kept to 52 weeks of the year for 3 years, just making adjustments closer to the major events - i.e. speeding up the long run and running the intervals faster in the last 8 weeks.
Sunday: am 22 miles steady / pm 6 miles easy
Monday: am 5 miles easy / Hills or fartlek
Tuesday: am 5 miles easy / 20 x 400m with 100m jog recovery at 5km pace (or similar)
Wednesday: am 5 miles easy / 13 to 15 miles steady. (I was teaching PE in a secondary school at the time and would do 4 periods of 6th form hockey as well).
Thursday: am 5 miles easy / Tempo run or long reps (6 x 1 mile at 10km pace - 4 mins recovery).
Friday: am 5 miles easy / pm 5 miles easy
Saturday: Race (XC league or similar), or am 5 miles easy / pm 8 miles steady.
Closer to a major event the 400m interval session would change to 10 x 400 in 60 to 62 secs (PB mile speed) and occasionally run 55-56 simply cos I could!
In the summer I also ran Southern League matches for my club and would tackle a combination of 400/800/1500/4x400 relay. Best I did was 800 (1.55.5), 1,500 (3.55.5) and 4x4 split (51.5) on the cinder track at maidenhead. And at Swindon I ran 14.30 for 5,000m, 4.01 for 1,500 and 51 for 4x4 split winning all of them with sprint finishes - point is speed is important for the marathon.
After that GB squad weekend I moved from 2.18 (Olympic trials Milton Keynes 1980) to 2.12 in 1982 (LM & Commonwealth Games), within 18 months of introducing the programme.
In the 3rd year I ran my PB 2.09.43. At this point a scientist from Oxford (I can't remember who) suggested that to improve to 2.08 I should do more work at improving my mile speed to under 4 min mile. In the next few years I tried this but ended up injured, due mostly, I think to the intensity of the running.
For an historical back point of view, prior to this I had been a track based runner (English Schools 5000 champion), but had always flirted with long runs since my main training partner at College in Sussex was a 2.17 marathon runner who went on to finish 2nd in the London to Brighton race. At this time (late 70's) I was also training on the track at Brighton with Steve Ovetts group. The point of that is that the current generation of world class marathon runners are coming up from the track and are used to doing very fast interval work.
I'll make a concerted effort to keep my reading speed up with your typing speed MG2, especially as theres no way I'll ever catch up with you're running!
What about Ed Whitlock ?
I know that Renato Canova's key marathon session for lactate removal is 1km reps @AnT followed by 1km "recovery" at MP.
Ivor - Gentle..!
Ivor, what about Ed Whitlock?