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Sub 2:30, Anybody up for it?
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I had a good session myself last night - 3 x 1500 (with the 3rd a PB at 4.48.2, the first 2 in 4.52), then 10 x 500 in 90/89. I am working on 10k in the short term. Was told that this would equate to 31.45 for 10k. Bring it on!
As for recovering from a marathon. Echinacea 3 times a day for 2 weeks on 2 weeks off. Magnesium is important for girls - not sure about guys. Zinc and Vit C (although most diets are high enough in vit c) and Vit B complex in liquid form - Holland and Barrett sell Vit B and Boots do melt on your tongue handi packs. iron is a good one too. Sounds intense, but if you had my blood result from the people that know last week, you would take drastic action too. I started eating ostrich after being vegetarian for 15 years! If you need to know about amino acids too, let me know - glutamine, carnatine and glucomsamine.
not quite Smashy!!
Just to annoy MikeB , this evenings vic park race was won in 17:40 (I came 5th in 18:04 , my quickest time since 1999)
My hamstring didn't go , so I'm now going for the Dunmow 5 on Sunday...
I'll start training properly next week (well, possibly)
Anyone fancy the Berlin marathon (altho I'm not sure that I can wait until September to do another serious marathon and it would be 2 weeks before the L2B??)
I've been a frequent 'lurker' on this thread (and the sub 2:45 one before that) and find the comments very inspiring - you guys all work hard! I ran London this year, but prefer not to dwell on that experience...I trailed home in 2:49 having gone through halfway in 1:15 (if anyone remembers passing a guy in the last 7 miles in a blue vest running slowly/walking/ staggering, that was me). I would have put it down to just poor pace judgement, except that all my racing/training had been pointing to me being in 2:30-2:35 shape...
Anyway, what's caused me to 'break cover' was the mention of the Vic park races. Are these open to anyone Michael/Mike? If so, when's the next one - being a (fairly) local resident I'd quite fancy giving one a go.
Keep up the training everyone.
james
Who are you training with in London?
And I think I went past you on the Isle of Dogs somewhere after mile 18!
I train down at Battersea on Tues, Thurs and Sat with Frank Horwill's group. Other than that, it's long runs on my own...
After mile 18? Sounds about right...the treacle was certainly deepening at that stage.
The Assembly league races - 6 in the series (3 done, 3 to go)
Thur 01 July - 5k at the Dome - 7.15 start
Thur 05 August - 3.5 miles at victoria park - 7.15 start
Thur 02 September - 2.8 miles at Beckenham cricket club .
Just turn up and run as a guest is the best option .
Also there is a 10k race in Victoria park on the 25th July (10.30) to raise money for the London Chest Hospital
URR - It's a small world!! , last nights race was 3.5 miles (not 5k) so I was actually pleased with 18:04 .
I'm still not sure about that BAD 5 course , lots of twists and turns and that time seemed v slow .
As I seemed to have hit some form (although still with a dodgy hamstring!!) , I may go for the Beckenham 10k on Sunday rather than do the Dunmow .
I'm just feeling gutted not having run for nearly a week now and still got a sore throat and unable to swallow
back soon though I hope
Hope to see you back running soon (I need you to act as my pacemaker for that sub 2:30 clocking....Was that howls of laughter that I heard in the background???)
I have been running many years, and am a team mate of MB. I am also chasing a sub 2.30 and having done 2.30.58 and 2.31.44 I feel I have it in me even though I had a dismal London.
I have entered Berlin and will start specific training soon. In the meantime it is some shorter races to get some speed, tomorrow is the Dorking 10, which is a bit longer but it is a good race.
I hope your tonsils get better soon MB.
Cheers
KC
Karl, good to see you. I might turn out for AFD (2nd claim) for a couple of Surrey Leagues this winter…..MikeB – can you drop me an email to arrange ?
Mike – In response to your question on another thread, I would say that I hit peak form on about 150 miles per week.
For most of 1988 – 1995, I was probably clocking around 100 mpw. The times when I really hit form were usually after a month or so of 150. This could be due to being a little bit lighter after higher mileage weeks (I’ve always had weight problems). Maybe I had added confidence and ‘focus’ when the training was going well.
I had a look back at my 1988/89 training diaries last night at the 3 months leading up to, and including, some of my best race performances. The average mileage was 140, but more significant (I think) is the consistency of the number of sessions I was doing each week:
168 miles (20 sessions)
132 (15)
117 (17)
145 (20)
101 (18) – Dropped out of Surrey CC champs – calf injury
101 (16) – Calf injury early in week
152 (21)
147 (21) – Includes 10K PB
132 (21)
142 (21)
213 (22) – Includes Surrey League win
121 (19)
140 (21)
In the next few weeks, I set PBs over 10 miles and ½M.
I often ran similar mileages in later years, but never regained that consistency in the number of sessions.
Or is that a gross oversimplification?
I suppose that the perceived wisdom these days is that 2 x 10 would be better than 3 x 7 (probably a 6 and a 14 would be better still).
However, with a full time job (plus commuting), I had three slots each day where I could train. I started running triple sessions because running was more fun than working through my lunch hour.
Also, I was training for cross-country / 10k, not marathons (or even halfs) at that time. For specific marathon training, I would certainly look to load a lot of the miles into a few longer runs.
I think we all know the benefits of doubles. I’ve never seen any research into the benefits of doubles vs triples.
Just my perception, but I felt that I got closer to Lydiard’s ‘tireless state’ when doing triple sessions.
For the last 4 or so years (excluding the marathon buildup) my volume has been very similar year round, but I don't think at the moment I would have the motivation / body could cope with doing 100+ miles a week all year, guess I'll have to give it a go - southern 10,000 champs in 8 weeks could be a good target
When running 150 miles a week, at what speed would your normal training runs be?, are they at Lydiard's maximum aerobic pace? how did you cope with the tiredness? I know when I have got upto 100 miles with two speed sessions I find it very tiring.
I have read that short periods of very arduous training followed by a couple of weeks of recovery sometimes leads to spikes in fitness which leads to personal bests. The recovery has to be a bit longer than a normal taper because at the end of 2-3 wks hard training you are supposed to be very fatigued. Hard though to do with a fulltime job.
For Berlin at the end of Sept I am planning a 12 wk build up alternating a higher mileage week of approx 100 with long speed work followed by a lower of about 75-80 with shorter faster speedwork. I also hope to do the Southern 10000 as a stepping stone.
KC.
In the late 80s / early 90s, a lot of my training was at a good aerobic pace. Mornings were easier (7 m/m ?). For a while, we had a good lunchtime squad – Wayne Oxborough, Jim Eastall, Chris Sweeney, Andy Hollins, (occasionally Adrian Passey)…so the pace was usually sub 6m/m. Evenings (other than faster track nights) would usually be 5:40 to 6:00 pace.
Over-tiredness wasn’t a major problem, probably because my ‘hard’ sessions were never flat-out. I think that the general fatigue from the mileage meant that I rarely ran any individual session so hard that I needed to ease off the next day. I would often have a couple of easy days though, after a tough race.
In later years, I probably didn’t run fast enough on my steady runs. As I rarely time any runs, I tended to just get round comfortably rather than stress my aerobic system. Something I’ll need to address if I get back into shape one day.
Berlin is meant to be a very fast course…..sounds like you’ll be the first of us lot to have a stab at the sub 2:30 this year.
Interesting thoughts on high mileage. I assume that in the late 80s/early 90s you were racing at around 5;00 pace, which would be consistant with the training paces you quote. in the mid 70s I was racing at similar paces, based on a training load of 90-95 miles a week, with 5 doubles on week days. Likewise, most of my training was run at 5:45 to 6:30 pace. How much difference do you think that your extra mileage made. As I understand it, the benefits of high mileage start to diminish exponential above 70mpw.
I found that with the higher mileage I gained spectacular improvements in the short term (10miles down from 55:30 to 51:30 in 5 months) but less so subsequently (51:30 to 50:10 in the next 12 months). Is it your view that if I had done more miles then the second phase of improvement would have been quicker.
I also believe that older runners can still cope with higher mileage, run at a decent pase, if its approached sensibly. Martin Rees (aged 51) peaks at 120 mpw during his build up period. I ran 70-80mpw last winter (currently 60-70mpw) at 6:45 to 7:15 pace, and I intend to push this up to 90-95 this coming autumn. Despite that I still think that 150mpw is just too much, unless you have international aspirations.
Ran the Chris Brasher 10k yesterday in 32:51. A single lap around Richmond park, fairly hilly so quite pleased with the time.
Hope to get down to about 32:30ish and then start a marathon schedule and hopefully get under the 2.30 mark later in the year.
Hope your trainings going well.
RD
Where did that place you?
You're going well, I still haven't got over London yet. What marathon have you got targetted for the autumn?
5th. Not sure yet what Marathon yet.
We're moving house, so will have to allow for that first.
There's always London next year.