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Sub 2:30, Anybody up for it?
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Tom S,
Yes, 10 mile / half marathon was around 5:00 pace.
I wouldn’t like to try to quantify how much difference an extra ‘x’ miles would make to racing times. There are so many other factors that influence rate of improvement, e.g intensity, rest days, outside stresses, running background, etc…..
I am pretty sceptical of all ‘scientific’ research into training methods. e.g. diminishing returns after 70 miles. You can be sure that very little of this research is done on (say) runners capable of 50 minutes for 10 miles. How we adapt to training is in a large part dependant on the training done up to that point. For example, I would be surprised if you could have gone from 55:30 to 51:30 so quickly without your previous years of track training.
I found that 150mpw used to work best for me. I wanted (and still do) to run as fast as I could. The extra 50mpw would be worth it to me even if it only made the difference between (say) a 2:30 and 2:29 marathon.
BTW, did you know that nobody in the UK has run faster than your 50:10 yet this year?
I’d better get a few miles in to do something about that ;-)
Yes, I agree with most of what you say. In particular I take your point about the reseach done on diminishing returns effect of training. Our ability to adapt to training is also genetic, in that the more geneticaly endowed runners are far more likely to respond positively to higher mileages.
Your also right about the anaerobic back ground from the track training. I wasn't a particularly good middle distance runner - I always found the training really hard and suffered a lot of injury. Compared with that running 95 miles a week was easy.
I also respect your point of view that if high mileage works for you, and it fulfills your sense of purpose them you should stick to it.
Good luck with the comback, you'll get to 50 mins long before I will - my target is the age adjusted equivalent of 57:30, and I've still got three minutes to go!
I think that the decline of british club running standards over past twenty five years is dismal, but we'd better not get into that one. (My debut 10 miles was the Shaftesbury 10 in 1969. I ran 57:35, and placed 37th out of a field of about 180 runners, and there was only one vet prize given to the first over 40 - says it all)
There are so few good times being run on the roads these days that people get excited over very average times, still, I can't complain. I certainly wouldn't have won £350 of cash/vouchers last year if the standard was like it was in the 80s.
Hope your over your problems and getting back into the swing of things
Bernie was amazing, and still quite useful into his 40s for Redhill.
Thats good news on the steady running front. What are your plans for the rest of the summer and are you contemplating an autumn/late autumn marathon. I lurked on the old 2:45 thread and followed you and the gangs progress with great interest.
TT, how long have you been on the comback trail. When were you last at your peak, and was it injury that forced the layoff. One of the advantages of returning to the sport after a break, if you've reached a reasonable level in the past, is that you tend not to make same mistakes as you did first time round, and you have the confidence of knowing that if the training worked last time then its going work again. I assume that your ambitions are to get back to your former peak.
Woking 10 1994 - 49:06 good enough for 5th (10th place was 50:12) Not a kenyan in sight.
20th 51:32
50th 55:15
That is only 10 years ago.....
Will reply tomorrow, Tom
Just read your posting on the daily thread.
49:06, that seriously good, even by eighties standards. Was this done on weekly 140 +
Yes – the 49:06 was run off 3 or 4 months of consistent high mileage (my training diaries are pretty sketchy from this period, so can’t give accurate numbers). The months leading to that race included NO track sessions at all. Typically just steady mileage, plus a short race or fartlek at the weekend.
I got injured 2 weeks before the 1998 London Marathon, after committing a few months to training for the race (living off a redundancy payment from a previous job). I got to 6 miles in marathon before the injury caused me to slow drastically and ended up almost hopping the last 20 miles!
After that, I was sick of running, so virtually stopped. Got a new job and started to work very long hours. After a year, I had gained almost 4 stone. By that time, I really missed running, so started the first of many comebacks.
I would typically run for a month or so, before missing a couple of months due to injury (invariably calf injuries due to the excess weight). The weight gradually crept up, until I was almost 7 stone above my old racing weight!
Started a new job, with much better working hours a couple of years ago. Also joined a gym and spent 6 months working on strengthening my legs and losing weight before doing too much running. Joined these forums last August and they really help to motivate me. Had a bit of a setback at the end of last year (calf again), but I’m optimistic that I’ll be back to racing weight by the end of this year.
As for ambitions, the most important thing is to get back to regular racing at a reasonable level. However, I’m sure that once I get to that point my competitive instincts will kick in and I’ll be aiming for PBs again in no time.
There you go, that’s my story……I’d be interested to read yours.
I hope to be running the Borehamwood half on Sunday.
Your post makes interesting reading. I'm really impressed that despite the set backs you've suffered over the past few years, you've battled through and you're still hungry for it. I'm sure that with the obvious ability that you've got (those times are seriously good), you'll make it back to where you were.
I had this break of 26 years, Sept 1976(aged 28) to July 2002(aged 54). The reasons why I stopped are quite vague, but when I think about it there are several. I picked up an injury (not too serious), had a car accident (again not particularly serious) and changed career (accountancy exams and studying for three years). I suppose all these bits and pieces added up. However, I think the real thing that underpinned this was a loss in confidence in my own ability.
I never thought that I was particularly good. Ironically, compared with present day standards, I was probably a lot better than I gave myself credit for, When I look back on my performances, it seems like its someone else running those times, (do you find it hard to associate your current self with the old self).
The thing that really brought it to a head was a bad marathon experience. Do you rember Ian Thompson, he was was the Tracy Morris of our day. He was a club athlete who came from nowhere in 1974, to win The Commonwealth amd European marathon championships. Suddenly we all thought we could do it.
I ran the Milton Keynes Marathon in the summer of 76 (the hottest on record, droughts, standpipes etc) gunning for 2:25:00. On target at 18 miles I finished in 2:42:00. I've never really got over the shame and disappointment of that performance. Somehow I think you can sympathise with that.
Ithen spent the next 26 years involved with career (mostly) and family (hardly, to my shame).
In early 2002, my wife and I joined a local gym - and there it was, a running machine!
I then spent 4 months trying to run on it without my calves, pulling, straining or tearing. Eventually I got to a stage where i could run 20 miles a week out doors. From there I've gradually built it up to about 70-80 miles per week, but not without various setbacks! During the last 6 months I've managed a bit of a break through, with 10 mile and half marathon times down to sub 61mins and 81mins respectively. My current targets are to run the age adjusted times of my youth but I've still got a long way to go.
THere seem to have been a lot of changes over the past 26 years. Standards overall have fallen, and there seems to be a lot more exercise physiology available to us now. Runners seem to be more cautious, less willing to train hard, and more motivated by the health benefits of the sport rather than its competitive aspects. It never ceases to amase me that I can compete on equal terms with people less than half my age. Either standards have fallen, or I really was better than I gave myself credit for.
So, there you have it.....You'll still get to 50mins long before I will!
I can certainly relate to most of what you are saying. I finally completed my accountancy exams during my ‘down period’ (previously, study leave was a week off to get some miles in!).
“shame and disappointment” is an interesting choice of words, but I know exactly where you are coming from. We put such pressure on ourselves to ‘succeed’ that minor setbacks hit really hard. The obsessive characteristics that are needed to be a successful distance runner also sometimes cause us to lose sight of what is really important (i.e. to enjoy our running).
One of the things that kept me motivated over the last few years was that I could be ‘successful’ by just getting close to previous levels. Whilst it is a shame that the standards have dropped in recent years, they’re all beating me at the moment, so I shouldn’t criticise too much. ;-)
Cheers
Has anyone else picked out their autumn goal and made progress towards it yet? I know a few people were targeting the ND30k today.
I posted my race report on the ND30K thread.
It is hard to quantify the race with regards to marathon form, but I reckon I must be in sub 2:40 shape now. I don't feel I was quite 100% today either.
What DID stand out today was how skinny all the faster runners (apart from me were). Big Tim and Michael (and all the rest of the top 20) all LOOKED like runners. I reckon I still have at least 1 stone to shift before I am in that sort of shape. Which I guess is a good thing as it gives a lot of room for progress IF I can keep the weight loss going.
So still on course for sub 2:30 in Abingdon, I hope.
Depending on how things go I may have a shot at the Southern 10,000m in August and then want to be fit for the Southern 6 stage in September.
Until I'm getting 70 miles in each week I'm not even going to think about which will be my next marathon, Abingdon could be a bit too soon, but will have to wait and see.
Well done Pantman, Big Tim, Michael and all others at ND race.
Quite positive updates. Now that I feel that I am needing my inhaler less and less, I feel that I can just about post a positive post! I had to give up racing in June and think I will from now on. Didn't do me any harm not to race in December, so see this as my six month reward for a break from racing. What's the point if you are going to rub sub standard? BUT the training is going well (touchwood). Setting pbs in my reps in training, and have my mileage up between 70-80. All being well, will have 5000m to race the next two weekends before heading off to Florida for 2 weeks for a bit of warm weather training (;-)). Did someone mention autumn marathon?
Congratulations on your race! You did superbly!
It was a pleasure meeting you. Thank you for all the advice and support.
hope to meet you again soon.Will you be doing Milton Keyens 1/2M?
Anna
Great run today. I am so pleased for you.
Isn't it great when the decisions you make about training prove to be right. You must be feeling really positive about the way forward.
I really shouldn't be on this thread, as I never will able to reach these standards again. But if you don't mind I'll carry on lurking and post occassionally when I've got something sensible to contribute or need some advise
It was lovely to meet you too.
I don't think I will be able to run the MK 1/2 as I believe it's while I'm away on holiday.
Feel free to email if you ever need any help.
Take care
RD
Still having problems with hayfever and asthma myself.
I'm using both preventer and recovery inhalers although have managed to avoid getting too bad and having to use steroids.
Ran the Borehamwood 1/2m yesterday in 1:14, was hoping for something nearer 1:12, but being hot and hilly, PBs weren't really on.
Still, enough to win the race, so well pleased.