Hard Training - Dawn (Hilly)

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  • Interesting Hilly..

    Most of my big problems (eg inner knee, metacarpal stress fracture, plantar f and of course illotibial band) have been on my longer right leg

    The shorter one gets off fairly scott-free most of the time - with the noteable exception of the achiles which I tore badly in my first year of running and which still humms if I dip out on stretching it

    I had a horrendous wedge of an orthotic made for my left foot ~ 18 months ago - this caused other probs though (including lower back pains) so I've replaced with a sorbothane which kindof works - but by no means perfect.

    Runners who've tried orthotics at my club also have v.mixed views it seems - I may have another go with a specialist though.

    Enough about me though, this is your thread !

    Note, if you are in Cardiff for any reason (other than the race !) there is a flashy new school of podiatry (part of University of Wales) literally next door to Les Croupiers RC (= Llandaff Rugby Club) with a number of lecturers who specialise in sports injury prevention - they are also fairly cheap, especially if you don't mind being a guinea pig !

    t




  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    ivor-I'm being good and sticking to once only for today. Going to club tonight first time in about 2 months!

    oft-I know what you mean about Sorbothane insoles. I wear them in all my run trainers and as I mentioned the heel raise in my left shoe. Like you although not perfect it's better than it was.

    I'll be passing through Cardiff in a few weeks time, but not sure we'll have time to stop for any length of time. Thanks for that though!







  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    Going to club was a not the right move tonight as the pace is always faster than you want when coming back from injury! Very uneven ground, which I found hard on my leg, so needing some ice now. Beautiful evening to run though and makes me appreciate that I can run!:o)

    5 miles done not 6.

  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    Sorry about the poor grammar there!:o)
  • On present performances I will be due for a serious panning. I know that I've got to keep it up for a week before I can judge where I am at with my own level of unfitness......You want poor grammar, and I shall provide it readily for you (!)
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    With just under 13 or just over 12 weeks to go blisters you're going to do ok!

    At the start of my programme I was more concerned with being able to build any kind of mileage with my injury. While I can now run for 3+ hrs on soft surface, I have to admit to being just a tad concerned that I'm running even slower than normal and find it just as much an effort to do this. Suffering with hay fever at this time of year doesn't help either!

    I'm quite content to keep plodding away for the next 3 weeks and do hope to see the pace start to get easier and quicker without added effort as my fitness returns.

    I've cancelled so many races in the last few months, which for me was a disappointment. I've now scheduled in 2 short races and a longer 30k for August to test out my leg at faster than plod pace, but maybe not race pace.

    Suffering with a bit of lurgy at the moment. Just a sore throat and head, so shall keep things very easy with another 5 miles plod tonight, stomach exercises and stretching.
  • guess who else is doing 2 short races and a longer 30k for August to test out Dawn's leg at a faster than plod pace........
    lol
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    6 miles easy on treadmill today.

    yorkshire lass, you do realise you've just agreed to do "2 short races and a longer 30k"!! Those 2 short races are Yeovil 5k!!!! And Shave Cross 5. LOL!! Good friends go to great lengths you know:o)


    Injury is seriously on the mend now and am happy with the progress. Trying to run every day this week with a couple of doublers, so another reason to keep the pace down.

    Mon-am 3 miles, pm 7 miles
    Tues-5 miles
    Wed-6 miles

    The rest of the week will be:
    Thurs-12 miles
    Fri-am 3 miles, pm 7 miles
    Sat-5 miles
    Sun-20 miles

    Mike is this too much too soon? I was doing 40 miles running plus 50 miles of cycling in the week, where now it's all running. All runs are easy pace with short runs on treadmill and long runs off road.
  • Brillient news on the injury, keep up the good work pal
  • Good news Hilly. I'll be interested to read Mike's reply. I may be a couple of weeks behind you in terms of recovery.
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    It's surprising how quickly you can pick the training back up blisters. I don't think you'll anything to worry about there as long as your injury is ok.

    I'm hoping Mike says it's ok as I'm not tired and neither are my legs as the runs are all <70%-70% of WHR. 70/80 miles is the base at which I planned to reach and from there build on speed. As long as my injury copes ok this week, then I think I'm over the worst in that department and then it's onwards and upwards.
  • hilly, running longer and slower is no bad thing. What you are doing after 2 hours is recruiting your fast twitch muscle fibres as your slow twitch muscle fibres tire. So you finding running 3hrs slow as much effort as running a shorter distance quicker is to be expected. You're still getting the training benefit, just taking a bit longer to do it.
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    Thanks BR, that makes sense. Maybe, I've always trained too fast (for me) in the past, which is why getting to 50 miles a week was my ultimate before breaking down with injury.
  • Spot on Hilly, I think it's moving in the right direction now. keep cautious and I think still do the drills on your shorter run days - maybe just a few of each at the end of the run so that you keep developing appropriate muscle strength.
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    12 miles done tonight with training partner, yorkshire lass. We ran our off road route, which was quite wet/slippery and overgrown. Lots of high knee 'colt running' over long grass. Otherwise a very easy pace that averaged 70% of WHR.

    I'll do the drills Mike on single run days when the mileage is short. That'll be Saturday for the next lot.


    Got a sports massage booked for tomorrow, hope she doesn't go too deep and aggravate my leg!
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    6 miles done on treadmill again very easy although today legs do feel a bit tired. I'll do the next run after physio as she might give them a much needed boost!
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    Mike-am I right in thinking that my training is to build my endurance base over the next 2 weeks to what I'm going to sustain through the speed endurance phase of training. I plan on getting to 70 miles this week and so far feel it's not going to be a problem because it's all easy running. Also, am I right to believe the speed endurance phase should be for 8 weeks and then 2 weeks of tapering, which is about right with just over 12 weeks to go?

  • You are correct, although you need to phase in the speed endurance so that you can hold the mileage and increase it gradually over a number of weeks so that yu adapt - also so as not to aggrivate the injury.
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    Yes, I can see that speed endurance will have to be phased in. Having never done so many miles in a week before I can also see why they have to be done at an easy pace.

    Did another 5 miles tonight on the treadmill that makes 11 miles for today and 30 mins on turbo. Feeling fine and making sure I refuel after each session. I've drunk 3 litres of water/juice today and now having a much earned glass of red!

    Physio session was interesting this afternoon, she say's that I've got posterior compartment syndrome and by the feel of the bone there most probably has been a micro fracture there! I was very concerned to hear this as I've been treated for muscle tear, but that's most probably why it occured in the first place.

    I've always suffered with extreme tight calves and even numbness in the past so wasn't totally shocked to hear this. She say's I've done well to maintain my fitness and look after the injury over the last 6 weeks since I last saw her and that I should continue as I am.

    I was totally upfront with her as to what my training is so she was aware of the amount of stress I'm placing on my leg. The worst of the injury from compartment syndrome is over, but she wants me to have 2 physio sessions next week for ultra sound and massage to the sheath. She believes I shouldn't get to the stage where an operation is necessary-thank goodness!

  • Oh my goodness Hilly! Your legs sound pretty shot up when you write it down. However I gather from the other postings that you are feeling generally OK, or you wouldn't be upping the effort levels.

    Best of luck, and "keep listening".
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    Hi blisters, I know it sounds awful, but it's not as bad as it sounds.

    I've done some reading on compartment syndrome and I've cetainly had some of the symtoms in the last few weeks, but it's certainly not acute! As I have regular physio and sports massage it should never get to that.

    To tell the truth at the moment my legs feel the best they've felt in the last 2 months! They're a little tired, but not sore so I'll continue with the plan.

    Today is a 3 mile run to the swimming pool, 800m swim, 3 mile run back home.
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    Today's training didn't feel good at all. A slow plod to the swimming pool with added weight of a back pack. Then a very uncomfortable swim where I just couldn't get my breathing right, followed by an even worse 3 miles home. Found it hard to overtake an old lady walking her dog and then had to speed up so she didn't pass me again! Couldn't stop thinking about food and haven't stopped eating since I got home.


    Hope tomorrow's 20 feels better than this!
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    It always amazes me how running one day can feel so easy then the next so hard!
  • Hilly: I've recently started to feel like that, it's as though I've got two pairs of legs and I don't know which ones I've got on until about one or two miles into the run. I've been running for over 25 years so it's a bit of a shock - I'm running a 10 mile race in two weeks time and I really can't judge my finish time to within 5 minutes.
  • Hilly, since I started running longer distances I have been eating a lot. I thought that I would lose weight but I am heavier now than before. I think about food all the time as well!
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    DavidB, hope you have your good legs on for your race!

    Spud-I know what you mean about food and weight. I've always been one not bothered by weight as my clothes size has always been 8-10 and still is. But recently I've been weighing myself and not liking the results. I'm just under 9 stone and just can't see how I can weigh that much. I'm 5 ft 3in and do think I have a lot of muscle, but would like to be 8-81/2 stone to get the best out of my racing.

    I'm not sure how many calories I should eat for the amount of training I'm now doing.

    Mike any idea how many calories a 5ft 3 female doing 70 miles a week should be consuming or where to find the information?

    I'm very aware that I need to pack in enough food of the right kind, but also don't want to put on weight. In fact I wouldn't mind being a little bit lighter, which I hope might happen with the extra training.
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    Today I did 20 miles made up of 14 off road and the rest on road. Ran with yorkshire lass at conversational pace all the way round! At times it hurt and I had feelings of wanting to stop, especially going up hills, but dug in and managed to keep going for the 20 miles. Feel quite proud as this is my first 70 mile week ever and although I'm running about 1-2 mins slower at the moment I'm hoping once my body adjusts the pace will pick back up.

    In myself I feel fine, but my legs are a bit stiff and tired. I've sat with them resting in a bin full of iced water for 15 mins, which seemed to help.

  • hilly - re calorie requirement - I am a similar height to you and a few lbs heavier. When I worked out my calorie requirement the formula gave me approx 1300 per day for my basal metabolic rate, and an extra 500 just for the inevitable walking and sitting about of daily life = 1800 per day.

    For the extra running calories, a 9st woman uses about 100 per mile, no matter how fast she runs. If you average your mileage to 10 per day, that is 1000 extra per day.

    That makes your "break even" calorie requirement something like an average of 2800 per day. It is unwise to go more than 20% below this if you want to maintain energy for training.

    Because your body is a probably a greater % of muscle mass than most women, the chances are that you may actually need somewhat more calories than the standard formula suggests.
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    Thanks Lynne. I just did a search for working this out and using the Harris Benadict Equation it came up with 2243, which is an estimation based on heavy exercise. 2800 sounds more like it, but I don't want to 'break even' I actually want to lose a bit, so will try the 20% less, which is 2240 if my maths is right!
  • Hi Hilly, sounds like you're getting to the bottom of the calf problem, and I think anouther reason to keep off any speed work that is going to cause swelling in the muscle and build up of lactic acid. I think speed work needs to be kept at threshold level for you when you start to reintroduce it - mile reps at half marathon speed would be ideal initially.

    I wouldn't worry about your weight if I was you - swings in form day to day can be due to short term dropsin blood sugar levels, so you need to keep the carboydrates going in. Go more on look rather than the scales (although how we see ourselves can be missleading as well!). As you indicated, muscle weihts more than fat, so you can get slimer and put weight on. On 70 miles a week it is unlikely that you will put on weight due to fat gain unless you substanially increase the amount you are eating. The other problem is realistically calaroy counting during the day - eat little and often to keep your sugar levels even and keep the fat content down and you will be fine.
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