• What can they do ? If bikes and cars share the same road - and they will - then accidents will happen.

    I want more prosecutions of drivers on mobile phones as they drive. They aren't in control or focussed 100%.

    Sustrans is great for a cycling network, but it's not gonna replace all the roads.

    I believe there are some rules coming in about safety precautions being built into the next generation of cars for pedestrians and cyclists. At the moment a lot of cars are great on the inside and deathtraps on the outside. 4*4's for example (although some of those aren't even very safe on the inside - I think the Freelander is one).

    It is a shame though. A great pity.
  • popsiderpopsider ✭✭✭
    Hard to comment on this incident without knowing what happened.

    In general I find speed limits help a lot on some roads. The A6 for example is a lot more cycle friendly now it has 40 and 50 limits all the way between Derby and Buxton - for one thing it is no longer used as a race track by motorbikes.

    Also using the A6 as an example - it's quite a wide road and despite being quite busy - including a main road for lorries in the week is never really intimidating to cycle on - compared with the A52 from Derby to Ashbourne or A515 from Ashbourne to Buxton - arguably quieter roads but I generally try and avoid doing too many miles on them because they are narrower and traffic passes much closer. I'd much rather have a wide road than a cycle lane painted off along the side - because from my own perspective a cycle lane is often unuseable because of glass, grit and other crap (lane from Little Eaton to Ripley would be an example locally). On the other hand I think for novice riders or kids on mountain bikes with tougher tyres a cycle lane is probably a good idea.

    This might be a bit controversial but I'm all in favour of as many speed cameras/traps etc as possible - I've been done once for speeding in 20 years riding/driving and it was a fair cop. Anyone losing their licence for repeated speeding convictions must be driving like a maniac on a regular basis and deserve everything they get.

    Anyway just off out on the training bunch which will no doubt give any local drivers just cause to complain about lycra clad louts!
  • LizzyBLizzyB ✭✭✭
    Absolutely agree on the speed camera thing. People who speed are breaking the law - so why shouldn't they be prosecuted?

    LizzyB (with points on licence, yes,that was a fair cop as well)
  • It always amazes me when I hear politicians saying things along the lines that there should be more leeway for motorists caught speeding by speed cameras. I know they are desperate for public popularity but they are condoning breaking the law.

    In my opinion drivers are just not punished heavily enough. Cyclists should cycle defensively but there needs to be some sort of move away from the idea that motorists are kings of the road. I'd also agree that more needs to be done in vehicle design to try and minimise the risks to those that get struck by them. Funny that the reason that most of the selfish, lazy school runners give for driving their sprogs to school instead of walking the 200 yards is that it is safer. Yet they transport them in vehicles that would almost certainly cause fatal injuries if they were to hit an adult, let alone a child.
  • it p*sses me off when 99% of speeding motorists say 'you should be out catching real criminals'

    i wonder how many serial killers target random cyclists?
  • LizzyBLizzyB ✭✭✭
    I'd love to know the ration of speeding drivers (or drivers using their mobile phones or whatever): "real criminals".

    It's probably somethign like 7876159:450 ... which would justify even more police time being devoted to catching people speeding/driving without due care etc.

    A nearly had my head taken off my a bus's wing mirror yesterday, MrB gave chase and caught up with the driver at a bus stop and, er, pointed out the error of her ways, she apologised. So hopefully she won't do it again. (BTW I was too b*lloxed at the time to do a sprint and catch up with the bus - the intention was there but my legs had gone home)
  • Strange how these incidents are always called "accidents" the cars don't drive themselves.
  • I'm too gutted to comment at the moment - will be back later


    Sustrans supporter since 1998

    often cycling on the main roads of Cornwall though try and take the scenic route / cycle path

    it's always scary hearing this news

    and not the first time someone has been killed doing a Special Venture of this sort

    I live in fluro - you never know how many times it's saved you - and people die in fluro
  • The worst indictment of this is the fact that this news is not NEWS - so many are injured and die on the roads that you don't even hear about it

    I would not have heard about this, but for this thread Dodge

    why / how was she killed ???
    I mean injured maybe - but why DEAD ??

    I mean we hear about the American who got shot in Saudi

    NEVER the person killed on their bike or crossing the road
  • although it could have been the cyclist's fault. you see plenty of idiots on bikes, admittedly mostly in london. i saw some p*ssed chav on a bike drinking a can of beer ride out in front of a car last night and almost kill itself.
  • they are no longer caled accidents but collisions. Without the full facts it may well have been completely the cyclists fault?? (not wanting to start a war!!) The speed camera bit is an argument that can and will go on for years. The average motorist may well now find themselves being convicted by a caamera for doing only three MPH over the limit. This can be a very minor lapse in concentration and can cost them in the wallet and the licence department. Also people get to know where the camera's are located and speed until they get near it and then brake heavily until after the camera from which they accelerate away at continue to travell at speed. Camera's also fail to notice vehicle defects, ie bald tyres, defective breaks and in some cases cars which should just not be on the road!!. What is the answer to this?? The only answer to this that I can see is more cops on the road performing a traffic officers role. they can spot and stop a defective car from anywhere, not just camera sights, and as they drive down the road people automatically slow down and stick to the speed limit. Don't get me wrong, I also believe that cameras have there places ie. outside schools etc. It is another case of cut backs by the government to a point of being overstretched in public services. More people are killed on the roads in this country than by any other means but the traffic departments are being cut back to breakingpoint. there ends the party policital broadcast on behalf of icedog...
  • given that car speedos can't read slow.. and most read as much as 10% fast.... 'just 3mph' over the limit means the speedo will be displaying significantly more than this.
  • ...and just 3mph over is still over and if that is due to a lapse in concentration then maybe motorists should pay more attention and drive more within the limit. Keep fining them till they start to learn that they need to pay more attention and slow down.
  • I may be wrong but didn't they introduce some legislation which made motorists responsible for any accidents involving cyclists regardless of who was actually at fault. I think it was meant to sort out the insurance situation. Well I think they should extend that idea to ciminal responsibilty for the accidents/incidents as well. I don't believe there can be many cyclists that would intentionally chuck themselves under a car's wheels even if there are some right spanners out there that ride like lunatics. Force motorists to give a wider berth to cyclists.

    ...or am I going too far?
  • 'course you are, Dodge. We wouldn't expect anything else!

  • plenty of cyclists ride irresponsibly

    i dont think a driver should be punished if a cyclist didn't look and veered in front of him, and went under his wheels

    ...or if the driver yesterday had been a second to slow to swerve out of the way of the aforementioned p*ssed chav who cycled straight out in front of him

    cyclists aren't automatically always in the right, and drivers wrong
  • i almost ran over a cyclist a few months ago

    he was riding along and then just fell sideways into the road for no reason

    fortunately i was giving him an excessively wide berth, right on the other side of the road across the white line

    had i been giving him say 4 feet, which you can't say is too close, i would have run over his head. and it wouldn't have been my faul;t
  • ZACKly.

    My uncle hit a drunken cyclist who veered straight across the road in front of him on a Christmas morning. The cyclist - who was found to have more alcohol than blood in his veins - died.

    My uncle, a dear, sweet man, never recovered from the guilt and depression he suffered as a result.

    But yes - we should all learn to give, as candy described, as wide a berth as possible to any cyclist. I'm pretty sure that just from getting to know you lot, and learning of the speeds of which you're capable, I've avoided more than one nasty accident because I am more aware.
  • MuttleyMuttley ✭✭✭
    Dodge, I think there is legislation like that in some European countries. Possibly Holland and Germany.

    When I lived in Berlin I was very taken by a similar law, only it concerned buses - if you hit a bus in Berlin it's your fault, no questions asked. Result: motorists give buses a very, very wide berth and always stop to let them out. The only drawback is that bus drivers sometimes do daft things, but then motorists expect them to and make allowance.

    Nonetheless, I'd vote for a law like that for cyclists in this country.
  • I wouldn't.
  • MuttleyMuttley ✭✭✭
    Well I would so NER! <rasp>
  • LOL!


    I do love a man who doesn't try and slice me into little pieces with reasoned argument when I'm tired.
  • You highlighted my point nicely Muttley.

    There certainly are loons on cycles, as I already acknowledged, but who's in control of the vehicle that can cause the most damage? Who turns accidents into fatalities? It seems pretty clear to me who should shoulder the most responsibilty. Too many motorists don't seem to have enough motivation to drive responsibly let alone defensively. Do any motorists drive defensively?
  • maybe all motorists should be forced to log, say, 50 bike hours a year by some tagging system

    that would change things
  • and everybody with an england flag on their car should be castrated

    an easy win to stop chavs breeding!
  • Aggressive motorists will simply be aggressive cyclists.
  • MuttleyMuttley ✭✭✭
    Candy for Prime Minister, that's what I say.
  • Don't worry, the flags will be gone soon.
  • Sounds like a poem by Wilfred owen.
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