Sub 3:00 FLM 2005

I am aiming to break the 3 hour mark for the first time at next years FLM anyone else?
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  • AardvarkAardvark ✭✭✭
    Longlegs, I'm not planning to do London next year, but I'm going for sub-3 in Abingdon in October (my first marathon). If there are any takers for this thread I'd be keen to join in.
  • Definitely! Did 3.07 this year with 15 miles being my longest training run, so i'd love to give it a go!
    I'm finding it hard to motivate myself at the moment though!
  • Not a bad idea to have a new thread for this as last years sub-3 one is far too long to follow.

    Have already started working the long runs up to the 2 hour mark - according to Lydiard and his many followers, this is a really key time in order to get certain muscle fibre improvements. All at a nice easy pace and not necessary to go any longer until nearer the time. How about all of you?
  • I have the Thanet Marathon on September 5th so I am in training for that at the moment, aiming for 3:15 there.

    Long runs for this at the moment are up to 2.5 hour mark.

    Struggling at the moment, just come back from a two week holiday in greece where it was far to hot to train very well, so am very unfit at the moment.

    Still 8 weeks to go so should be ok
  • Definitely! Well, actually I'm hoping to do way under three hours, but given how I've been blighted by injury for the last 9 months, it's by no means certain that I've got any chance of that.

    At the moment I'm working on building the long runs up to ... 5 miles. Round of applause please!
  • Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
  • AardvarkAardvark ✭✭✭
    Long runs are between 2 and 2.5 hours at the moment, working on getting in as many 100m weeks as I can, ideally with two marathon-pace sessions each week.

    I'll see what shape I'm in by the end of September before deciding on a real target time - I'd like to get well inside 3 hours at Abingdon, but I'll settle for 2:59:59 and a gfa place for London 2006.
  • Hi Everyone
    New runner from South Africa and missing my training buddies. Really need some advice on how to achieve a 3h10 qualifier for Comrades (89km)in June.Ran a 3h19 on the Shakespeare this year but for seeding need a quicker time.Will be living in Chester from next month and would like to race December or early Jan. Which are the quick races and any pace makers out there to help me through? what is the female GFA on the London Marathon?
    Regards
  • You can find the GFA info at http://www.london-marathon.co.uk/entryinfo/goodage.htm

    Not sure what quick races there are at that time of year but at least you'll have the advantage of cool weather.
  • AardvarkAardvark ✭✭✭
    Leslie - Luton in December is supposed to be fast. By the way, if you still need to run a GFA time for London 2005, the cut-off point is in early October - Cardiff on October 3rd (I think) is the last chance for a fast time.

    Only one way to improve your time: run lots of miles at a steady aerobic pace, and don't do speedwork at above your target marathon pace.
  • Definately aiming for sub 3.00 hour aiming for a gfa at New Forest of this time
  • Definitely going for a sub 3-hr time in 2005, I got 3:13 this year (first time) and could've gone quicker...didn't want to kill myself though and thought I'd enjoy it, which I did :o)!
  • Definately aiming for sub 3hr, did 3.13 at Paris (GFA time) this year, doing NYC in November and will be trying to get sub 3.10. Currently suffering stress fracture of 2nd metatarsal but should be back running again in about 2 weeks, meantime 150 miles a week cycling....
  • Yep i reckon i'll have another crack at it - I ran 3:03 at FLM this year. Rather disappointed as i'd ran a 1:21:30 half in the build up.
  • I'm going to give it a go, assuming i get in. Ran 3:11 last year, so a little way to go.

    whats is everyone concentrating on at the moment?

    Its half marathons and 10 milers for me in the autumn. My long runs are currently 2-2.5 hours, with no real pace just keeping them ticking over.

  • AardvarkAardvark ✭✭✭
    I'm targeting Abingdon in October. Just getting lots of easy aerobic miles in at the moment (100+ per week) with a couple of work sessions each week (2 or 3 x 5k @ marathon heart rate).

    I have a 10-miler on sunday and a 1/2M in September. I'm also doing the GNR as a marathon-pace training run. No other races planned at the moment.
  • Good luck mango.

    You can do it . You've got the ability . Just got to get it right on the day , after all you ran quicker preparation races for FLM 2004 than me.

    I've sent off my GFA begging letter today for under 40 male with 2.57.35. from FLM 2004.

    Should be OK. 5th FLM in a row hopefully !

    Hope for 2.55 or faster.
  • Thanks SB.
    Hows your running going?

    I'm looking at doing an autumn mara. -possibly Reims. This will only give me a 12 week build up so i reckon i'll take it easy and FLM will be the target. Race the Train is the next big one for me.
  • Hope to get the ok to start running again next week (7 weeks off has been murder).

    Booked up for a Trailplus weekend in September, Great South in October and New York Marathon in November.

    Need to find a good 1/2 in late September, anyone got any suggestions?
  • I am stuggling at breaking this 3hour mark - sitting 2 minutes outside it at the inute and don't know what to do to improve upon this? Any suggestions?
  • Are you in a running club Jen?
    I started training with runners who were faster than myself who had done sub 3 hour marathons.It hurt like hell at first and I was only capable of doing this twice a week max but it worked for me.
  • AardvarkAardvark ✭✭✭
    Jen - base training all the way. You need to run about 6:50/mile to break 3 hours. You can already run at that pace, but as yet you can't hold it for 26.2 miles. By running lots of aerobic mileage you will raise your lactate threshold, 6:50 pace will start to feel more comfortable and you'll have a better chance of maintaining it round a marathon. You have to train slower than your lactate threshold pace for this to happen - most of my running is currently at 8-9 min/miles, with only my 'work' sessions (2 or 3 reps of 5k each) at marathon heart rate. Apart from the odd race and a few short strides every now and then, I'm doing NOTHING faster than marathon pace.

  • Mango,
    I'm not running too badly at the moment but having a fairly light summer due to heavy workload ( preventing crime !! ), shifts , etc. and building works at home.

    Doing about 35-40 miles per week , mostly quick tempo runs , including local 5k and 10k races.

    Doing a 20 mile leg of the Round Norfolk relay in sept aswell as Police National 10 mile race in Lancaster. Hoping to do 10k PB at Brighton 10k in November.

    Ticking over really . Good luck , speak soon.
  • Jen
    I did 3:00:04 at London last year, so close, but the year before did 3:08 and the year before that 3:14, so i am going the right way.

    I do interval sessions at least once a week, minimum 800 repetitions. I'll either do six fast (about 2.50)at this stage or 8X800 Yasso's (just under 3 minutes a rep, with 3 minute jog recoveries) going up to 10X800 nearer the date. Also either 5X1k or 3X2K or 4X1mile.

    I do a lactate threshold run most weeks, half an hour building to one hour ten not going above 155 heartbeats (between 10K and half marathon pace'ish)

    I also do a 8 to 12 mile run at marathon pace every few weeks on a track. It's dull but if you are aiming for sub 3 hours do each 400metre lap in 1:42. If you monitor your heartrate each time you should see it is lower for the same distance towards the end of your training, As Aardvark says, you should be in the comfort zone for the bulk of the race.

    Last time I ran 20 miles and over five times in my training, I'm doing the same again, but you will know what suits you best.

    Aardvark's plan would seem to suit a runner who is already fast over short distances, whereas I am still aiming to beat 39 mins for a 10k as well as building my endurance.

    Hope this helps and that you get three hours, cause I can tell you it's gutting to be outside by 4 seconds!
  • ps 155 won't be the beats for you, should have said that
  • AardvarkAardvark ✭✭✭
    Chip - my 10k pb is 38:40 - I don't really qualify as fast over short distances. I'm much better over longer distances (1/2M PB is 1:23:26, due for revision soon I hope!). Reason: lots of aerobic mileage = high lactate threshold.

    The benefit of base training is that it makes you faster and more comfortable at EVERY heart rate. The slower training leads to build-up of mitochondria in your muscles, which are the vessels that clear away lactic acid. If you build up lactate in your muscles (ie you do anaerobic speedwork or lactate threshold runs), these adaptations don't take place as effectively.

    Think of it like this. You have a top speed that you can run at, say in a 100-metre sprint. You obviously aren't going to get close to that in a marathon, but what you need to do is train yourself to be able to draw on as big a percentage of it as you can. To do that most effectively, you have to start at the bottom and work up.

    Anyone interested in finding out more about how and why this kind of training works should read the Hadd article linked on the first page of the Base Training thread. Hadd explains it far better than I could. It's also worth noting that he trained a guy in his mid-30s to run a 2:20 marathon with this method.
  • AardvarkAardvark ✭✭✭
    And now I promise to shut up about base training until anyone asks - one thread on this is more than enough ;o)
  • Aardvark
    That sounds really interesting and the mitochondria build up thing makes sense. I suppose there is more than one way to skin a cat and I've discovered in the past that a massive part of training is 'belief'.

    I have taught myself to believe in my training programme up until the race and then afterwards look at where I can improve or try a whole different regime, psychologically it seems to work.

    Comparing with my PB's, 10k 39:24, half marathon 1:23:54 you are a speed king at 10K!
  • AardvarkAardvark ✭✭✭
    Chip - have you raced a 10k on a good course recently? You can normally expect to be at least 10-15 secs/mile quicker over a 10k than a 1/2M, and more if you've trained specifically for the shorter distance. Might be worth finding a flat course and going for it?
  • It is feasible that you could have an excellent endurance base and can run a marathon at near your threshold, but have a low VO2 which means your threshold itself isn't that high.

    From reading around it does sound like any sharpening/peaking training, like your Intervals and threshold-pace runs Chip, are best done in 8-10 week blocks immediately prior to the taper for a set of races. These will help raise the VO2 and peak speed so that the post-race block of sub-threshold endurance work pulls your base up even higher. Then 11-12 weeks before FLM you can start another sharpening cycle to add speed to your base AGAIN, have a 2-3 week taper and then get your sub-3:00.

    Hope that makes sense - I see it as sort of push-pull thing. Most of the time you are seeking to PUSH your LT up nearer your VO2 and your Marathon pace nearer your LT from the base upwards, however twice a year or so, you work on PULLing your VO2 and Leg Speed up from the top end of your speed range with interval, tempo and hill work.

    For instance in September I'm planning a few weeks of speed work prior to an October half-M, a 10-miler and a 5K. Then it's back to base work to bring LT and so on up again until Feb when I can start some pre-FLM speed.
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