Sub 3:00 FLM 2005

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Comments

  • Brian61Brian61 ✭✭✭
    DN.
    Yes that rings true also.
    A failing of mine is not racing enough, not thru choice I might add.
    I help run my sons football team and they play on a Sunday, so most Sundays are out.
    My prep this yr involved one 10k race in early Feb, I had to manufacture race conditions after that, which is not easy on your own.
  • JEJ - can you drop me a line ot johnhardcastle71@hotmail.com regarding the sportsim - just had a look at the site and I'm not entirely sure how to "use it" - do i need to download the software?

    DN - I'm sure there is something in what you say.. when i was at my best I think my average weekly mileage was around 30-40 miles and I practically never strayed above 6 miles and stuck to just 3 training routes... THAT WORKED FOR ME "THEN"... unfortunately, it doesn't work for me NOW! And I think that's the key... I think when you've found something that worls for you - you stick to it! Some of us may never actually find what worls for us and some may never actually find the absolutel OPTIMUM for delivering their full potential but might get close to it... The evidence of that is there for all to see... what person x does wouldn't necessarily work for peson y... its a learning curve and for those of us that haven't got it right I'd encourage them to have a bash at making some rather drastic changes and just see what it brings about.

    WW - I'm like you... I work shifts and can't always do my long runs on a Sunday or take part in races which would be ideal etc... And i think thats the beauty of the Garmin FR - that little virtual opponent- I'm having one!
  • Brian61Brian61 ✭✭✭
    JH
    Think I'll have to wait till birthday to justify the cost!
    But the more I think about it, the more I want/need one.
    Can't wait to run my favourite off-road routes with the Garmin and see how accurate my estimated mileages were.
    My pace does tend to drop (instead of increase) in my long runs, this should help to get it right.
    Any likely sponsors out there? Ha Ha....
  • Brian61Brian61 ✭✭✭
    First run since Sunday this lunchtime.
    Can't wait. I hate doing nothing.
    From Leeds town centre, down onto the Leeds-Liverpool canal, round Gotts Park Golf course, 6.5 miles in the spring sunshine.
    Finish off with a couple of quarters to see how my legs feel (5k race coming up in just over a week).
  • WW

    I read your marathon history. Fairly similar to mine (except for my wasted youth)

    1981 4h 38m ??s (who cares!)
    2004 3h 25m 25s
    2004 3h 06m 41s
    2004 3h 06m 08s
    2005 3h 05m 17s

    I would race more over the 10k,10m,HM distance, but I really do hate it.

    5k the pain is over and done with quickish.
    In the Marathon it builds up gradually until the endorphins lock in.

    10 miles is over an hour of discomfort, and the HM is even worse.

    Enjoy your run at lunchtime. I'm very jealous, as that is what I normally do, but some big bod is over from Head Office, and he wants to meet the staff, so I'm stymied.
  • I used the Garmin this year, and have done all my long runs and some racing with it, used the virtual training partner for toimed runs, you can also do reps using it. Very handy piece of kit, pity I got mine before the new version with HRM came out. I also use it for biking as well.
    I think it is particularly useful in the first miles of the marathon when you could be gong off too quick, especially on the champ start where there are some very fast runners it is easy to get carried away.

    Had it not been for injury I was set to run the time I wanted, all my training went well and was on fairly low mileage- 30-40 a week.
  • Hi Bluerunner,

    Having only written twice in the build-up I'm not sure I qualify as a thread member but here's a longwinded summary my FLM training (for a time of 2:50:05 this year) to add to the mix. I run 4/week and swim 3x40mins a week (in place of easy run) and do one long cycle (2-3 hours easy).

    My four runs are a long run, an intervals/speed session, a mid-week semi-long easy run and a threshold run. I followed the Runners' World sub-3 training programme (for the four runs a week I did) and really went for it on all speed and threshold work. Long runs were mainly by time and measured afterwards (ranging from 60 mins (!) early December, 2 hours in mid Jan, to 2:45 in March, 5 longest runs total 110 miles). On long runs I went easy for the first half and harder for the second half. If I could, I pushed harder again for the last 20 minutes of each run. I took part in no races, but did two solo-run time trials (a track 10k in late Jan (36:57) and a canalside Half marathon (1:23:07). Two weeks out I ran a pace test long run. My marathon goal was 6:30/mile, which I ran on the last 16 miles of a 20 mile run (but to be fair on myself I aimed at 6:35 per mile to account for the camelback and lack of crowds!). In the final week I followed the program but changed all the easy runs into race pace including the 12 miler a week out (by this time race pace felt comfortable; though it had felt too fast back in Jan.).

    Who knows which aspect of my training worked for me? I suspect that each part helped. Long runs make running long easier (tolerance to the impact on the quads). And intervals/threshold work really made me fitter, and, without any intent on my part, made my easy pace improve considerably for the same low heart rate from January onwards.

    Last year I followed the Runners World schedule the whole time (all the runs and this time no swimming and biking) for a time of 2:59:21. The only change from this year was that I made no effort to go fast during any of my long runs (except for a single half marathon time trial (1:29)).

    Good luck for the future, and bare in mind that, as nick jordan said, everyone is different.
  • I think that Steffan Kennetts suggestion that it is all parts of the schedule that make the performance is the most accurate I have probably seen on this site.

    A few years ago I trained in a group of runners with marathon times ranging from 2:29 to 2:46 - and we were always looking for that secret that would unlock our real potential. Looking at the training we did if any of us had real talent we would have been a lot quicker than we actually were. The common ground was quite simply that we all trained hard together 3/4 times a week. It was not unusual to be running 20 milers in 2:08/2:10 the rest was pretty much recovery runners. There is no doubt in my mind that as runners we bought the best out of each other. One recemmendation to all runners striving to reach their optimum performance is to forget the gizmos etc and to beg steal or borrow (or even buy) a copy of the Competitve Runner's Handbook by Bob Glover - schedules for all - easily understood and although I can't claim to be the 2:29 runner, I can state quite happily that it does work if you are prepared to put the work in.

    I would, finally suggest that when training and following a schedule - every session should have a purpose - even if it is as a recovery run-

    Just the thoughts and theories of a bored runner!
  • Brian61Brian61 ✭✭✭
    What a strange lunchtime run!
    Must have a look back on my log to see what other 1st-run-after-marathons were like.
    First mile was wonderful, felt like I could fly, no aches or pains, very low hr, perfect. Then the calves began to tighten and ache, so I stopped and stretched. When I got going again, the quads did exactly the same thing, began to tighten and feel very sore.
    After about 6 miles I felt like I had run 20 and the legs felt like lead.
    Anyway, after a good, long stretch and cool shower, feel ok with no sign of injury.
    Glad to get it out of the way in the end up.
    Strange thing is, the probs I had in the last 10k of the marathon were the hamstring muscles cramping - didn't feel them today, until stretching after the run!
  • Brian61Brian61 ✭✭✭
    Yeah, reading on it appears that I did too many 'junk miles' in my prep.
  • For anybody interesting in what happens when you combine a Garmin with a PC, I've uploaded the graph of my FLM to:

    http://londonrunning.co.uk/flm05.jpg

    Note the strange readings around Canary Wharf where it lost signal. Otherwise it was reasonably accurate. It turned out useful in the last few miles, which although were familiar from my everyday runs, seemed to last forever!
  • Ordered mydelf a Garmin Forerunner 201 - think i cna justify it as it was my birthday on Wednesday and I've got a couple of months of hard training to do ready for Blackpool... I'm definitely going to give it a go!

    I've just had a look at my photos on the Actionphoto site (number 2945)- quite surprised to see that I'monly actually walkign in ONE of them!!! Amazing considering the fact that I felt I must have walked more than half of the second half of the course! I also notice that;
    a) I'm wearing a rather pained expression in ALL the photos except the finish line - looks like I'm smiling - I can guarantee i wasn't!!! I seem to remember that although I wasn't hanging my head in shame - I was crying tears of embarassment! And;
    b) I've got a bloody bottle of water in my hand on every one except the cross the finish line shot!!!

    Anyway - can't wait for my new toy to arrive - I'll not be able to sleep tonight!
  • Not sure if it is any good to anyone - there are a number of Garmin Forerunners appearing on ebay
  • I don't think that I did much wrong in my preparation, my other commitments meant that I couldn't do many more miles than I did even if I'd wanted to. I would like to build in more speedwork, and I'm thinking of joining a running club because I did all my training on my own, and a few running mates might motivate me.

    It's the race plan that I will change next time. What I underestimated, having never done a 'big' race before, is how you get swept along by the crowds and the other runners. I'd planned a quick first 10 miles (65mins) but ended up with 63 mins and suffered for it. Next time the mantra is 'even pacing'.

    Saying that, I still maintain that I'd have made my 2:59 on a cloudy day. But I've always had a great capacity for self-deception.
  • To all the replies on training schedules...Thanks to all of you for taking the trouble to post.
    Some really interesting reading and food for thought. My overall impression is that a lot of you go for real quality over quantity, with hard tempos and speedwork sessions most weeks, and then the long runs are really long with faster pace at the end. Not too much sign of recovery runs, hence reducing number of sessions each week. Those following these ideas seem clearer of injuries than some of us!
    I take the point that everyone is different and we should think about what works for us, but it is useful to see what others do and how they feel about it. The bottom line seems to be 6.50 miling has to become 'easy' and you are probably only going to achieve that by running faster that for reasonable distances in training.
    BR
    P.S. I use the new Polar speed and distance watch, which gives you pace (very accurate), distance, heart rate, can hold interval sessions etc etc. All downloads on to PC to see what you have been up to. Not cheap but does the job.
  • Can anyone give me some advice.
    Following my disappointment at not breaching the 3.15 barrier (i got 3.17.47) i have vowed to be back next year and beat 3hrs. I know i can finish with a better time by the fact the wall hit with such ferocity in the last 6.2 miles. So how do i train between now and next April? I have to bear in mind that in August last year i couldnt manage 3 miles without a struggle, so now i have reached this level i want to keep it. But do i slacken off for now, enter the occasional 10k or Half and up my trg again in about August time or do i carry on with the odd 16 - 20 miler?
    I dont mean to be arrogant (or naive) but given my state when i started trg just 8 months ago, i believe i have potential to do quite well at this distance.
    Ive also got a few of my own ideas about where i went wrong with my trg this time, not enough 20 milers, dont do a 10k 2 days before the race etc! I wont be making those mistakes again.
    Can anyone help me beat 3hrs on Apr 26 2006?
    BTW here are my splits from this year
    KM10: 0:44:19 KM20: 1:28:43
    HALF: 1:33:45 KM30: 2:15:17
    KM40: 3:06:02 FINISH: 3:17:47
    I am also considering doing another marathon before Oct to see if i can get a good for age entry to FLM 06 (I am 32 - so will probably need a sub 3hr result based on this years entry requirements)
  • Hello Swanny... I'm doing Blackpool in about 8 weeks from now (19th April) - a very flat cours feollowing the coast but unfortunately, given the unpredictability of the UK weather, likely to be affected by wind (as HelenS mentioned). If the wind is light it'll serve to our advantage and keep us cool... if the wind is high and the weather conditions are late spring as opposed to eary summer - wel..l....

    My Splits were INITIALLY somewhat btter thsn yours until the cramps kicked in.... yours are quite consistent and show potential all the same...

    We're there or thereabouts -we;ve had a week of rest/recovery -I'm determined to get myself a FLM 2006 place and I'm not a millin miles from you on age- I turned 34 wednesday gone (20th)... my only previous marathon was 3hrs 22min at alevel of fitness and teraining well below tis years.... My half and 10K times show much more promise...

    As to how you shuld train - I would't hazard a guess! Go with how you feel but I would personally suggrst much HARDERnad FASTER TRG than most suggrsted trg programmes advise.... An old adage from my time with the Royal Marines in the 80's ( I have realised) still holds VERY, VERY TRUE...


    TRAIN HARD, FIGHT EASY... substitute Fight for Race and the goal is there for the aking... if you cant hold the pace in trg, you cant hold it on the day... GIVE IT 100% plus a bit! Thats me for Blackpool... anybody else gonna join me?
  • I meant 19th June.. sign I'm back on the ale!
  • Cheers John, firstly commiserations for net getting the time you wanted on the day.
    I too agree with you with the TRAIN HARD, FIGHT EASY phrase and will try to go that extra mile or 1km an hour. Having read a few running magazines lately (unfortunately for my friends and family I think i have been possessed by running) i will try to spend the summer months concentrating on speed work during the week, but i will also try to keep doing some distance work too. Maybe 12-13 miles every sunday with a 20 miler thrown in every 4th week or so. Im also going to keep my hand in with the races, just to give myself the occasional goal. These races will be a max of half marathon and most probably 5k,10k, 10milers. I am having second thoughts about doing a marathon to get my GFA qualification though. Im not sure i have the time to get one in within the qualifying date and improve my time significantly enough. Blackpool is too close, the only other really fast course, Cardiff, i believe is run too late to qualify for FLM. Are there any other fast courses around August/September time?
  • A few people from the forum are heading to Berlin in September - it's a flat, quick course and very well supported & organised. I'm going on Friday 23/09, return on Monday 26th - including flights, hotel (800m from the start/finish) and race entry, it will cost me about £140 - I'd imagine people spend more than that on the FLM weekend...
  • JEJ - Is Berlin still open for entries - and if so, where/how did you apply???
  • nichs2nichs2 ✭✭✭
    asn is now nichs2 (it's a long story)
    i've started a sub 3 2006 thread

    i hope fellow sub 3 dreamers will contribute....the comments and support this year helped to maintain a focus!

  • Just a quick question..what was in the goody bag this year...After finishing I went to Marshall at a cross point, and put it down there...and never saw it again...what did I miss?
  • Not a great deal in the goody bag, a t-shirt, a few free toiletries samples and money off vouchers, the foil blanket and i believe thats about it. Oh and a free breakfast bar, some Jelly babies, Fruit Allsorts a bottle of water and some Lucozade Sport.
  • JEJ, Did you find the hotel on the website? I cant find anything that cheap, so where did you get your info, or if you are willing to tell the forum, which Hotel are you staying in?
  • Swanny, I'm booked at the following hotel - it's only small but there appear to be rooms left. My rate may seem cheap because there are 3 of us sharing a triple room.

    http://www.hotel-berlin-tobook.com/Germany/Berlin/Hotels/Hotel-Amelie-Berlin
  • JEJ, Thanks a lot, i will check it out.
  • Stayed here http://www.innside.de/content/?lang=en&loc=ber when I ran Berlin. Slightly more expensive, but very nice.

    Entry fee goes up in stages, the first one ends pretty soon, so now is a good time to book. I think the race did sell out last year, but it wasn’t until July/August time.

    There was a great Berlin thread last year, with some great advice on it, so it may be an idea to get another one started. I will post loads of useful info on there before the race, if nobody else has.

    Top tip…… start trying to get your hands on Gatorade now, it’s what they use in the race and it’s not common over here!
  • Swanny, One of my colleagues who was travelling to the Berlin marathon has pulled out, meaning we have a free bed in the hotel. It would be £75 for the 3 nights if you're interested.
    Dave
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