Chi Running

Ye Olde Dragon

Yes Goldbeetle - you need to make sure that you have plenty of fluids and align your posture in a supine position and rest for a few days!

goldbeetle

Im doing 20 miles on sunday hmmmm maybe not

Siv

Hi guys.

I too find it impossible to tilt my pelvis on the move. Suppose that's why we're told to check posture at the start of a run.

I've been struggling to keep my cadence down - that's the trouble with having short legs - and don't yet find the Chi running position feels "natural".

Goldbeetle - hope the flu gets better soon. The book says listen to your body so that probably means don't do any 20-mile runs...
Sounds like you are really getting to grips with the technique.

[Deleted User]

My body often tells me i should do more 20 mile runs especially when I ahve not run for a few days, my mind does not often follow. Every time I am driving to work my body reminds me I havent been ou for too long. Often when my minde is ready my body has got tired of waitin for my mind and gone back to sleep

[Deleted User]

Quick report on my 7 miles this morning. Much better breathing, I think the picking feet up and having the feeling of pedalling a small bicycle is a good visualisation for me which got my cadence up closer to 180.

Felt really relaxed too which I am sure helped the breathing.

Maintained a nice steady 8 minute / mile place throughout the run and felt really good at the end.

Get well soon Goldbeetle! Hope to hear some good reports from others trying these techniques over the weekend.

[Deleted User]

Golly - that sounds brilliant, The wheel visualisation helps me too and as you want to go faster lean more and think a bigger wheel (ie the gears, same revolutions or cadence with bigger cog means you go faster - just like the front cogs on your bike)

Poppy is finding she is finishing so fresh she is able to go out for another later in the day

[Deleted User]

Thanks for the encouragements Cabletow, loads of improvements to come yet I think though!

[Deleted User]

Keep watching the DVD Lesson 5 and the drills are what needs to get in the head. the idea is to run without using a push off and landing under your COG. to do this you need to set your core and keep your cadence up so you can lean into it

Jj

please sir where can I get the DVD - Amazon UK doesn't seem to have it.

Jj

ps went out for my first Chi attempt this morning and giggled most of the way round.

reminds me of a Garfield cartoon where he's sauntering past Jon, and Jon idly asks: "Garfield - when you walk, do you move both legs on the same side, or the ones on alternate sides?'

next frame shows Garfield bug-eyed, frozen mid-step.

"I'll never walk again," he says.

¦oD

IanRunner

Im sure this has already been covered but I would'nt mind if you could clear this up for me.I know you are meant to land midfoot but is heel meant to touch the floor at all or not?
I went out again a couple of days ago and felt my shin splints again.Im sure its because I wasnt concentrating on relaxing my lower legs.Im running home from work later so i let you know how I get on.Been reading about using your core more and practising the exercises.Im sure this will help as long as I think about it.

Ian.

[Deleted User]

Ian

I'm sure there are people on here far more qulified than I to answer your question about the heel.
From my limited experience, the 180 bpm cadence and picking the feet up naturally leads to a midfoot stike so I'm not conscious of the heel at all.
Relaxing the lower legs is specifically mentioned to help shin splints in the book, post about your run home from work and let us know how it was.

[Deleted User]

The DVD is available from the Chi-Running.com web site. Mine arrived within a week and happily works on all our DVD's and computers. I have not been able to source it anywhere else.

[Deleted User]

Ian I too am not aware of any pressure on my heel, I feel the weight land just behind BOF. If you land at the foot of your column ie you are leaning ahead of your foot strike you can land with totally relaxed feet, also shin splints occur if you are actively dorsiflexing your feet as you land. So shin splint problems imply active dorsiflexion, and probably mean you are striking ahead of your cog.

Jj - It does happen suddenly you click. Read the book esp chapter 4 and watch the DVD often. Like driving a car it seems a lot to concentrate on but soon it comes naturally. What helped me "get it" Although I am no expert at all, was watching my 4 year old daughter run, Strange as a child I wanted to run fast like my Dad, now I am a Dad I want to run like my kids.

IanRunner

Thanks for advice Cabletow & Golly.I ran home as I said and really concentrated on relaxing my lower limbs and my shins were fine again.So obviously I've worked out what was causing my shin splints.I've been reading alot more of book and its making alot more sense.I think the next thing for me to work on like you say Golly, is the cadence as I have not looked at that yet.
Have any of you used a metronome and is it worth getting one.

Ian.

[Deleted User]

#yes I have teh metronome and I turn it on and off during my runs. I have it set at 87 and work one foot to it. The L23 r23 keeps it there pretty well. I find that it is useful though to get back the swing. any digital metronome that will click to your shorts will do as long as it goes up to 90 bpm

[Deleted User]

Ian. Glad your run home went well and that you seem to have found the solution quickly. Without Chi Running you would have had a few months of physio visits for mega bucks when the solution was just a slight change in running style. Good isn't it!
I use a metronome on all runs which I do on my own but not club runs or weekend runs with others, they get a bit fed up with the constant ticking!
Cabletow we have a lot in common - my youngest is 4 and I too look at ther run and want to be like that.

Welshpoppy

I never thought I would be able to go and run again an hour later but it does work i feel fresh as a daisy after the runs.

Siv

Ian - good to hear the threat of shin splints has subsided, hopefully for good.

I bought the ChiRunning metronome, which is very small and neat. Usually turn it on until I get into the rhythm, then turn it off and just check my cadence every km or so.

Today's run was interesting and I felt I was making some progress. Ran one of my standard loops, 9.6k, and really concentrated on relaxing legs and feet, because I tend to scrunch my toes up (especially when leaning!). Was very surprised to record an average pace of 5:53m/km and average 70%WHR (usually I do easy runs at 7m+/km and 60%WHR), yet it didn't feel either fast or hard. I wouldn't say I'd "got it" yet, but something is definitely shifting.

[Deleted User]

Blimey 2min per kilo wihtout increasing HR Now that is interesting

Siv

cabletow - there was an increase from 60%WHR to 70%WHR. It was a bit like when I started doing HM training about 3 years ago - beeping over 70%, slow down a bit, beeping again...
But I was finding it really difficult to run more slowly without going back to old postural habits. I reckon all this tension I'm slowly getting rid of was putting the brakes on.

[Deleted User]

Did catherine address teh problem of slow running, small wheels or whatever as this seems to be a big problem - keeping your core engaged going from say 3rd to first gear

Siv

If she did I didn't pick up on it, though Goldbeetle or Eva may remember better. I certainly meant to ask her, but forgot, about the HR issue generally, as all my previous attempts at ChiRunning had resulted in higher HR.

[Deleted User]

New muscles recruited and not relaxing properly with the higher cadence mean newbies do experience a higher HR

You are using new core muscles to run and they need more capillaries which take a while to form. Interestingly as these muscles are trained for long aerobic activities even though your HR climbs you dont fatigue as fast as you should.

the suggestion is to continue but really focus on where your feet are striking teh ground - not in front but at teh base of your column - shorten your stride, teh HR will drop soon - remember gradual progress.

I have this issue too, but my mind can alwaysfind other excuses. Today in the heat 1/2 an hour after a big meal I did 4.5 miles at 86% WR. I never could have maintained that before Chi running for 5 minutes let alone 40 minutes and after I finished I felt I could do it agian (exceot my knee hurt). So for a bit I did not beleive the HR monitor. but I guess it was right but your core muscles fatigue less

goldbeetle

slow running

well she didnt mention it she just got our posture right and hen worked on footfall and getting us running

I must admit I take issue with chi running as there seems to be no real pacing we didnt cover going through the gears just whats above
When I read the book,i gathered, because you use gravity and dont employ too much muscle power there is a point where you lean so much and you let legs draw out behind you,youve kept your cadence at 85-90 you wont be able to go any faster because you are limited by your stride length
there must be a point when to physically go faster you must increase the use of muscle or 'power running' for want of a better phrase otherwise you are fixed a somewhta narrow pacing band
what does everyonelse think?

IanRunner

Thanks everyone for their advice.Thats a good point Goldbeetle as you can only lean over so far and you supposed to keep to the same cadence.Although I think it'll be long time before I concerning myself with those sort of problems.

Ian.

[Deleted User]

There is a fine line between rotation of the pelvis allowing an increase in stride length and using the hamstrings and gluts to actively extend the leg as Evolution running purports. both evolution and Chi use the same cadence but increse stride length to increase speed as opposed to POSE that uses increased cadence with the same stride length. (although POSe conceed that due to momentum and something they call correllias (sp?) phenomenom the stride legth does increase)

All 3 methods have a limit - if they did not then man would be able to run at 70mph. clearly this is not going to happen. The problem with active extension as in evolution running fatigue is a factor. Shorter distance this may be OK but over longer distance clearly relaxed lentghtning has an advantage.

all 3 of these forms of Natural efficient running do not ever allow for increasing the stride length in front of the centre of gravity but a sticky foot back drag or an active push back is accpetable. It is not beyond a leap of faith to utilise the active push back for the shorter runs I guess - although I run out of wind very quichly when I do

[Deleted User]

For anyone struggling with cadence I would recommend downloading some mixes from podrunner.com and putting them on your mp3 player. You can get 160, 170 and 180 mixes - they equate to 80, 85 and 90. The benefit for me is that, unlike the metronome, you run to each beat rather than thinking left foot only or every third beat (Waltz setting). It really increases cadence which reduces stride length. That makes running so much easier. Try it.

[Deleted User]

Some good stuff on here guys and gals - there seems to be quite a large community all trying these techniques.
Did 3.5 really wet miles earlier, I maintained 180 bpm on the metronome and felt relaxed especially in the lower legs. The picking up leg trick is a godsend and visualising the small bicycle is a great focues.

My biggest struggle is still breathing though. I think before I started these techniques I became ingrained in matching steps to breathing, so now I have shortened stride but increased cadence I am naturally breathing more quickly / more often.

Do you all match breathing to stride or just let breathing happen with out thinking about it? I find if I get 'out of sync' between breathing and cadence I lose the breathing and have to adjust cadence to match before I feel comfortable again.

My current pattern is 3 breaths in and 3 out which I can just about maintain but the perceived effort is quite high.
I'm sure it will come and I need to improve my breahing techniques according to the book, any help as always appreciated though.

[Deleted User]

I usually just breath but when climbing hills I do the in for two and out for three slightly pursing my lips (I think of it as forcing the Oxygen into the blood) but in reality if you breath out for longer than in there has to be more resistance or you will deflate