sub or about 4h30 hopefully



  • Providing we can all start in the same pen? Is that sorted by predicted finish time?
  • And there's no Welshmen around!! :-) (no offence intended - just a joke)
  • It's good to see that most people's training is going well. Mine is not too bad considering although am I the only person who seems to be getting slower! I really had to concentrate to go slow enough for the long slow runs but now I am struggling to go any faster! I ran 5 miles last night and would usually quite comfortably do it in 45 minutes, however, I struggled with this and even have a sore calf this morning. Perhaps Hal Higdon (of the famous schedule!) is right and that marathoners of my ability should just stick to long slow runs! It just makes me feel as if I'm missing something when I take a look at schedules like the RW one where speedwork seems to happen twice a week!
  • Sorry about yr injury Undulating. a wise and difficult decision. Good luck recovering - I'm sure you'll do well later on in the year
  • Hi everyone hope you are all ok and pounding the pavements or whatever.

    Undulating - a very difficult but sensible decision.All the best.

    Dips - hope your ITB is sorted and you're running trouble free.

    Bannana - my favourite gal. How are you? Hope the trainings going well.

    Slowlegs - I think it was Barnsleyrunner, who is a very respected forum member, who said if it's your first marathon then contrary to what is said in some schedules don't pay too much attention to speed sessions, in fact don't do them. A marathon is not a sprint therefore you don't need speed sessions.I tend to agree and would say that they are only an important part of training if you are seriously looking for a certain time. Don't forget you're not going to run the same time for a specfic distance everytime. Many factors may affect it.
  • Stylish, thanks for that - I think that's my gut instinct too, it is my first marathon and I think I'll be pleased to finish it in one piece, especially if I hit the target of sub 4.30. You're probably right about the 5 mile run too, I had been at a funeral the day before, it was very traumatic and I probably had a lot to drink too! So, now I'll just concentrate on marathon pace runs and long runs with lots of easy running inbetween! By the way, I have a half marathon in a few weeks, what pace do you think I should run that?

  • Hi Stylish, training is going well generally. Knees were a bit sore on my long run last sunday which was frustrating as the orthotics were meant to have solved that problem. Have to see how I get on tomorrow. Really enjoyed reading that thread you started on thoughts during the last 385 yards. Can't remember who it was but someone's post was hilarious!

    Slowlegs, there are two ways of looking at the half-marathon. If you really want a sub-4:30 time in the marathon, then I'd have thought you'd want to stick at around 9:30 pace for a half. Although what I'd do is make sure I stayed comfortable for the first 10 miles then increase speed if I felt good. It would be pretty demoralising at this stage if you bombed 2/3 of the way through.

    Another recovery run tonight for me. Just enough exercise to have an excuse not to work, but not enough to really knacker me!
  • Dear All,

    For some reason my times today seem to have improved tremendously - I ran 3.2 miles this morning is 12 minutes!

    Seriously, I left my stopwatch in work and so, in an effort to get a rough time, left our egg timer attached to our front door, some joker obviously came along and re-set it! I think a fair estimate would be more like 30 minutes. ;-)

    Good to see everyone's going well. What does everyone feel would be an appropriate distance for a long run this week (I've drifted from my schedule badly), I was thinking 12 miles?


  • Anyone got any advice?
    Just found out the job I am training for at the mo. starts the day after FLM. It will be my first time and don't know how I will feel the following week! (or following day more to the point!) I am training 5 times a week and following the schedule so if I stick to it can anyone give me some consolation?? I cannot get out of work at all to save that reply!!
  • Anna Obode?
    I am North London, eratic work schedule etc etc and a lone runner! Maybe our long sunday runs could meet up?
  • Dear All,

    Hoping to do a 12 mile run today - to 6 mile circuits - but had to call it a day after the first circuit because my shins/calfs were extremely painful (as in agony).

    I've been up and running again for nine weeks (after a six year period in the wilderness of laziness) and was hoping the sore shin issue would get easier. I'm now running 15 - 20 miles per week.

    Looking around online it seems to fit the descriptions of 'shin splints', so part of me feels I should ease off, but the other part of me thinks the FLM is only 10 (?) weeks away...

    Does anyone have any suggestions, tips, that might reduce the pain?

    Hope it's going well for everyone else.


  • Chris, this has been my biggest problem over the years! The first thing I do now is get a sports massage from someone who can have a dig around and make a good diagnosis of what the problem is. A massage can make them feel so much better. The other thing is to only run on soft surfaces and run slowly - this also can make a big difference. They are not the kind of problem you can run through you really need some help now. Try icing them also as this can give some relief - most important though is to get someone who knows what they're doing to have a good look at them. If you do that then you can still save the day!
  • Agree with slowlegs, excellant advice.

    I spend many agonising sessions on the massage couch...but it works!

    I have suffered with IT band problems on and off. Flare up occuring now, it is getting better slowly though and managed to make it to 9 miles today without any pain what so ever.

    Fairly good LSD for me today, 14 miles in 2.50. Feel like I ran well, just concerned my heart rate was quite high most of the way round, approx 160. The route was hilly and if I was on my own I would have gone a lot slower, but still managed to chat to a couple of others,even going upwards!
  • Did Watford Half Marathon today. Ran the whole thing with my brother - who is generally slower than me. Took about 2.28 and I was running as slowly as I could - what I imagine will become my FLM pace. Absolutely impossible to run slowly enough to bring down my hear rate so am giving up on trying ! However it's looking as if 4.30 may be too ambitious - we'll see. Next race either Tamworth 10K or Wolvey 5m (club race) in a fortnight. Much encourage by the ease with which I got round today, could have gone for a few more miles (I think!) Calves hurt though but not debilitating.
  • Hi everyone.

    Slowlegs - Re your question about the half marathon which one are you doing at the end of the month. I'm doing the Roding Valley on 27.2.05. Re the pace, if you're seriously looking to do sub 4.30 then the half marathon has to be done sub 2.00 so that's 9 minute miles with a couple of mins spare. I don't know how that compares with what your running at the moment? I agree with Bannana and say go at a comfortable pace and if at say 10 miles you're feeling good step it up. But confidence wise it's much more important to finish rather than time imo.

    re the shin splints if that is what they are there's an exercise which will help with this condition and also strengthen the shins. Lean against a wall with both feet about a feet apart and a foot away from the wall. Then raise the soles of both feet of the floor at the same time and bring then towards your shins as far as possible,this will mean balancing on your heels. Lower feet to the floor and repeat 10 times. Do this every time you stretch after a run. Increase number by a couple every week or so. Hope it helps.

    PA - well done on your half.
  • Jayne Jones - re your query about how you will feel the day after FLM. I think it's all down to the training before the marathon. If you put the training in for FLM you should be okay to start work next day. Your muscles will obviously be a bit sore and you may find it hard to walk frontways downstairs. After my first FLM, I was sore the next day but on the 2nd day I was completely recovered with no muscle soreness.

    Christopher Murphy - I have a similar problem to you at the minute and I know how frustrating it is. I only have 9weeks to my marathon and I can't pull out as I had to pay a large sum of money for it. I had to skip my 14-mile long run this weekend but did 22miles on the bike instead. I've been to a sports masseur twice who thinks it is actually my soleus muscle (rather than shin splints). He advised me to cycle for a week to keep up my fitness, so i hope to be able to do my long run again next saturday. I regularly ice and take ibuprofen and have a support bandage on it too.
  • Did a 13 miler this weekend in 2hrs 1 min tried to do it slowly but when on my own I find it difficult to judge speed and distance. I was aching and shattered at the end but with a good rest I will be back in the shoes on a recovery run today/tomorrow.
    My breathing was fine but my legs just don't understand what i want them to go through!!??
  • Join the club

    Did 13.55 miles yesterday (Garmin) and absolutely shattered at the end. Now having doubts about the ability to double that distance in the next ten weeks or so.

    And I managed to do it slowly! Is this really such a good idea? I knew it would not be easy, but having only done half marathons before, perhaps did not appreciate just how hard it will be.

    For those with experience, is being so spent after 13 miles in February an ominous sign or is there still time to improve sufficiently?
  • I don't think i'm gonna be up to 4,30 for the marathon but i'll make the decision after the Reading half in March. My long runs are just too slow at the moment.
    I have the Trailplus weekend this weekend though so maybe i'll learn enough there to make a massive difference to my training - that's the plan anyway.

    Sorry HH - know this doesn't answer your question but i'm not experienced enough to do so.
  • Hi HH

    I can't really answer your question but just want to let you know that you are not alone.

    I did 14.55 yesterday in 2h 55 and was absolutely knackered.

    After it I had about 3 bottles of lucozade and a couple of energy bars.

    This did help today as I don't feel as tired as I did after my last few long runs but maybe that's me just getting used to the longer distance????

  • Stylish, I'm doing the Liverpool half - I have done halves before but something always seems to have gone wrong in the past! Last half was done in 2 hrs 3 mins but I had a very bad virus at the time and was probably too ill to run! I think if I was training for a half I could do under 2 hours but I feel as if the volume of miles at the moment is seriously undermining any relative 'speed' I might have had!

    Like everyone else I am struggling and feeling knackered! Last week I did 15 miles in 2 hrs 37 and felt okay, today a step back run of 11 miles - I felt terrible for most of it and wonder if I will ever be able to run for 26.2 miles. My shin is also sore and I even felt a twinge in my back (both of these are problems I've had in the past and I fear the worst). I'm off for a remedial massage tomorrow anyway and hopefully I can sort them out quickly.

    One thing we can be sure of is that an awful lot of people are struggling so maybe it is quite normal given the extra pressures we are putting on our poor bodies!
  • PA - well done on the half marathon.

    I am no expert but surely feeling tired after 13 miles etc. is not too bad, as in my case each time I hit a milestone like that it's one I've never hit before and I kind of think, well a few weeks ago I never would have thought I could run that far, so come April hopefully I will think the same after 26.2 miles! I try and think of it as only a little further than last week.

    As for me, I have a severe case of man flu (a cold!) - so missed my long run Sunday - hoping to catch up a bit tomorrow morning. Hopefully it's a blessing as my hamstring was playing up a bit and it means its had more rest.

  • chris murphy

    i had exactly the same problem before flm in 2003 and was in agony. however, i saw a podiatrist who identified me as a classic over-pronator, immediately gave me a customised pair of orthotics, and put me back into training with just a week missed out of the schedule, all for £70. a small break in your running now won't do you any harm (and a rest may even do you good). however, if you let the problem build over the coming weeks, and keep pushing yourself to run through the pain, you might get injured, and perhaps might not even make the start line at all....

    if in doubt, get it checked out....

  • To all those who are feeling disheartened about being knackered after 13 or so miles, don't worry! I was amazed when I did my first marathon last year just how easy it was to run through the half marathon barrier and to keep on running (both in the race and in the long training runs prior to it).

    It's surprising how much of a mental thing running long distances is. If your brain knows that you've got to run a certain number of miles, you'll get there.

    Just keep building up the long runs gradually...

  • Thanks Norma, that's what I'm hoping!
  • Don't forget you are doing 13 miles on top of the traiing you are doing in the week. So if your doing 30 miles per week in training your LSD is a third of your weekly mileage. You will find that as long as you have put the miles in and taper properly you'll be fine.
  • Thanks for all the positve feed back, at least we are all suffering together. I did a 3 mile recovery run yesterday (after 13 miler saturday) and for the first mile I just couldn't seem to run smoothly and seemed a bit awkward but as the run progressed I seemed to get into the groove. Perhaps why they call them recovery runs.
    Steve K and Norma you have given me some inspiration, When people say they are training for a half marathon I think, well i've just done one of those as a training run!! (not trying to be smug just trying to have positive thoughts).
  • Hi guys,
    Sorry to hear that some people are having problems, be it shin splints or being knackered. Chris, hope you get it sorted soon, no experience to offer I'm afraid.
    Don't really know what to say to people who are knackered after 13 miles either. I'm only up to about 9 miles in my long runs so far but I still fully believe I can run 26, and I think believing you can do it is half the battle. I have to say I'm never knackered after my long runs because I'm going by the 'run to heart rate' strategy which generally means I feel like I'm plodding most of the time and finish feeling fine. Perhaps it's only a psychological benefit I'm getting from the heart rate monitor, but I'm feeling very happy with my training so far so I don't think I'd swap the heart rate monitor for a few more miles at a faster pace in the time allotted if it meant feeling knackered and low in self-esteem.
    Just a thought.
  • Good point Banana.

    The point of the long slow run is that it's long and slow. It's not about running hard and being out of breath - that's what your effort sessions are for. It's about building muscular enurance...
  • Thanks Cait - feel re-assured now!
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