Cr@p Swimmers R Us

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  • SgtLardSgtLard ✭✭✭

    oh b*gger

    gone without getting wet for 9 months and now first time back it was awful. and got pool flu into the bargain

    6 weeks to the 70.3 , twice a week with a nose clip : any chance of making the cut off ?

  • Ive hit a few bumps along the way recently with Total Immersion and taken the "plunge" and had a coaching session this week at The Swim Shed.

    I was noticing that while i was swimming i was rolling out the water too far to take a breath and also while i was doing this my lead arm would fail as i gasped for breath.

    So a trip to see Keith at the swim shed has really helped. In principle i had got the fundamentals of TI but there were some major flaws. Ive only been once but the things to practice have seemed to work. I am though slightly concerned that my speed will drop and being this close to stafford i dont wont to slow to miss the cut off point.....we will see what happens.

    The major difference for me after the session was breathing. I was breathing on every 3rd stroke. This has been stopped and I now breath every 2nd and its made a huge difference as normally when i reach a wall i would have to compose myself to go back. Its just great to be told by a respected coach that this was okay to do. I was told on my first lesson last year that you shouldn't do that as that was racing.

    Its not cheap but i recommend a lesson, but do some research first. I booked a lesson at my local Virgin active and although it helped me initially i can look back now and wonder what on earth i was doing and what she was teaching. 

    At the swim shed they have one of those forever pools or whatever they are called and he videos your progress, which is great to watch back to see how your doing

     

  • Going for my first ever OW swim tomorrow morning. Im not too nervous tbh, im going with the mindset that it has to be done and ive over come enough learning to swim anyway. Calmness is the key and the marina im going to is supposed to be half decent for beginners. The main issue ive got is there are no changing rooms, getting the wetsuit on and off is going to be very funny. Ill let you all know how it goes!

  • Pipram remember to have fun at the lake.
    - a small plastic bag helps put you hands and feet into a wettie.
    - Bodyglide helps prevent love bites.
    - A thermos of coffee is mandatory afterwards, especially for us slower swimblers.
    -ask people about sighting techniques.
    - two swim caps if it's cold.
    - your goggles WILL leak in colder water, because your face is screwed into wrinkles.
    - Bob the fish really isn't interested in you at all. If you see him, count yourself lucky.
    - pools, lakes, marinas and the sea don't have lines!!!

  • First OW swim of the year yesterday in Swanage, that was cold! Everything I have learnt in the pool goes out the window when in the sea. A case of, get in, get it done, get out, get warm asap. Happy swimming everyone, great to feel out your depth though (literally), even better when you ' crack it'.

  • Still no OWS for me this year ... But heading to the lakes next weekend to have a dip in Rydal

    on the plus side my 1hr pool TT has improved by 400m in the last 6 weeks image

  • WW, that's an impressive improvement in 6 weeks.

  • RipRam, why will not having a changing room affect you putting your wetsuit on? Or are you telling us you won't be wearing anything under it???? If so, that's a major mistake and would be very funny indeed!

    Seriously though, I can tell you I was really scared at first of OW swimming because I made the error of doing my first OW swim in a triathlon, wasn't prepared for the thrashing and bashing at the start of the race. Now I really love OW, prefer it to pool swimming any day, and as a slow swimmer I make sure to start towards the back or at either side of the pack instead of trying to mix it with the stronger swimmers.

  • I got promoted!

    After 2 years I have now moved up from Lane 4, where I had accrued voting rights and a resident's parking permit, into the far more congested Lane 3. Intriguingly, it appears that I'm already mid-pack. Interestingly, I still feel as though I'm swimming like a novice.

    The credit goes to my coaches. How they managed to teach me, I'll never know.

  • Just realised i hadn't put up how the OW swim went. I was pleasantly surprised in how easy it was to swim in a wetsuit and the minimal effort needed. I was briefed before by a really friendly and helpful guy from Derby Tri club which helped. I enjoyed the session but found at the end of a 600m swim i felt immediately sick and had to fight the sensation back, it really felt like motion sickness.

    @ Bionic Ironwolf - dont know why i was concerned about no changing rooms as it was all very well laid out. I have to add i did have trunks on!!!!

    Sighting was interesting but ive since been practicing in the pool and feel a lot more at ease with it. Since the OW swim I feel so much more confident, more like a real swimmer. Since being back in the pool ive found it easier not to stop after each length. So much so i thought i would try and swim none stop the other day for an hour. I did about 1hr4m and covered 2500m in a 2.35m/100m time. I was over the moon with this. 

    This like most people on here has been a very personal journey. Swimming has been the biggest hurdle ive ever had to get over. I can honestly say that im enjoying my swimming a lot more and feel a lot more in control.

    This weekend is my practice event at the Nottingham Tri 2 weeks before Staffs 70.3. I chose Nottingham as its a 700m OW course, this will be a good test to see how i do. 

    I know a lot of people on here can say this but i truly believe that if i can do this then anyone can. It is just a matter of training and belief.

  • Indeed it is! Very well done PipRam.

    My journey was a long one, I've been able to swim since I was 7 years old but never had any lessons. I only started improving once we joined our tri club and went to their training sessions. I am regularly swimming 3 to 4km. Next weekend I am doing a 6km OW swim race - once upon a time I would have been scared silly but I am really looking forward to it!

  • 6km swim race!!!! Thats epic.

    I only started properly swimming last august in training for my first tri. As with you its been a journey. My main objective in completing a 70.3 was that i knew id be a swimmer by the end of it. 

    This may be my first and last attempt at an Ironman distance (the training has taken its toll on my family) but i am going to keep up with swimming and see out a course of 7 coached TI sessions. 

    Doing a distance like yours may be a step too far for me. 

    All the best with that, would be very interesting to hear how you get on.

  • WombleWomble ✭✭✭

    Picking a thread at random to say that I have a medium size ladies wetsuit 2XU free to anyone who could collect from SW London/nr Kingston. It's done one sprint tri (and some training!). Send me a message through this site if you're interested or my e-mail address if you know it. Medium size seemed to mean that it would fit a 1.7m person who wasn't overly skinny.

    Don't like to waste stuff that might be of use to someone (see I live up to my name).

  • I think that I'm counted out of this offer Womble, on the basis of several reasons.

  • I had to go so far back to find this thread that I guess you are all good swimmers now?!  Anyway, I'm hoping you can provide some advice.

    Swimming is by far my weakest dicipline - that said I've not really devoted the time to it so its not surprising I'm in the crap swimmer camp!

    Anyhow, with a month to Wales I now find myself in the situation where I'm able to swim every day.  (I thought that this was going to be the case for most of the year but being shipped out on secondment meant I couldn't)

    At the start of the year I spent a lot of time trying to get my technique right and did see some improvements though they are marginal.  An ex swimming teacher I happened to be chatting to at the pool this morning said my technique was generally good and I seemed to have good strength.  I just can't sustain it though.

    This week my swimming schedule is as follows

    Monday - 1.18 mile steady swim (just happens to be the distance of 100 lengths!)

    Tuesday - 10 x 10 18m lengths focussing on technique

    Wednesday - 1.4 mile lake swim

    Thursday - 10 x 10 18m lengths focussing on speed

    Just for comparisom taking the long course weekend swim out of the equation, this is more swimming than June and July combined!

    With just a month to IMW I'm not expecting to achieve massive gains but does this seem a reasonable schedule to do for the next few weeks or would you advise something different?

  • Phil -- Nothing seems to be very long there ....

  • Agree with Will, you say that "technique was generally good and I seemed to have good strength.  I just can't sustain it though", yet there is a lack of endurance stuff in your plan.

    Coming from a running background (so it may not be the same but I imagine it should be relatively similar) the only way to build lasting endurance is to do the long runs, the speed comes from the shorter sharper sessions, but to be able to maintain that over distance you also need to put in the long miles. 

  • Phil that same principle applies to swimming too. Prior to my 6km swim I was swimming 3 times a week, doing 4 to 5km per session. I was hoping to go under 3 hours and finished in 2hrs 40mins. I am considering entering the 12km next year. Anyway, a timed 400m swim at tri club training last week was 1 min 15 secs faster than my previous time. Our trainer said she had noticed I am swimming faster and commented that the more you do the more you improve. In my opinion, in order to swim 3.8km in a reasonable time you need to be putting in distance swims as well as your sprints.

  • Thanks for the responses - sorry for the delayed response.  Ended up going to that place I call hell on Friday 'IKEA'  My wife has been nagging me for about 7 years to go and I've constantly refused though finally gave in and admitted it is probably a fair compromise as she puts up with all my training!  Since then I've spent the weekend surrounded in flat pack!

    I guess you're right about the long swims.  I swim a mile reasonably regularly but don't often go further, though mainly as I feel I'm not improving in speed at all at the mile so trying to focus on tecnique and speed first before doing too much longer.  I've come over to tri from a running background and have lost count of the number of times I've bleated on to people about how important the long slow run is, intervals are etc. rather than just running everything as hard as you can - which is what I have been doing at swimming.

    My 'difficulty' though is that I only seem to have one speed.  By "can't sustain it" I guess I mean I can do 2 -3 lengths at a reasonable pace but then just drop back to my standard pace which I seem to be able to do forever.  100m I can do 'fast' but then that my 400m, 1/2 mile, 1 mile, 2 mile pace is pretty much the same - as opposed to running where I'd have huge differences.

    I will go longer at the lake this week; probably 2 miles, but should I also make the pool sessions longer or continue with the intervals focusing on technique and speed? (bearing in mind I'm after maximum improvement over the next 3 weeks - albeit that actual gains may be minimal!)

  • Hi Phil,

    Normal disclaimers apply here. I'm not a coach, and unfortunatley haven't seen you swim either which may help. Apologies for the long post, I can get carried away with swimming image

    My opinion for what it's worth is to focus on intervals mainly for the maximum gains over the next few weeks. Make sure you keep 1 long swim per week if you can though. Going long every time is counter productive. Like you say though, the long swim should be at an equivalent drop in pace to a long slow run. 

    So - if you're swimming 4 times a week (which should be enough to give you a strong nudge the right way before Wales) I'd do something like:

    Mon: Technique.

    I'm going to presume you've had a hard weekend with long rides and runs, so a technique session is best placed here. Example session would be:

    400 warmup (or 20 lengths if slightly smaller than 25m pool). Very slowly build pace.

    16 X 50 as a rotating set of drills, any of: fists (swim normally closed hand to emphasise using forearms), sighting (look up every other stroke to sight or more frequently than you would in a race), catchup (but make sure your hands stay in front of your shoulders - it's very easy to introduce crossover here if you dont), fingertip drag. If you have paddles and fins then there are others I can suggest, but the above are good to start and all described in Don Fink's book if you have it.

    8 X 100 steady pace (slightly faster than endurance pace) with 15-20s rest. Focus on smooth relaxed stroke. Use a mantra if you have one (smooth and long is good to repeat in time to your stroke if you don't have one).

    400 cooldown. Nice and relaxed, last 50 should be as slow as you can make it without your legs and hips dropping.

    Total: 2400

    Tue: Intervals.

    200 Warmup. Very slowly build pace.

    4 X 50 drills.

     

    8 X 100 fast (80-90% effort) with 15-20s rest between. Rest 2mins after 8th rep, then go again with another 8 X 100. I love this set, and it becomes a great benchmarker if you can use a swim clock or watch. You should be panting HARD at the end of each set of 8.

    200 cooldown

    Total:2200

    swim clock: Hopefully you know what your 100m sprint time is (roughly). For the sake of argument, lets say it's 1.45. You wait til either red or black hand is at the top of the clock and set off for your first 100. When you hit the wall after 100, look at the clock and it will be at a "quarter to" position. 15s rest means waiting til the next red or black top then going again. This means that the above set will become 8 X 100 "going on" 2min ("coming in" on 1.45, then 15s rest). The first time you do the set of 8X100 you'll likely find that you fade, and struggle to get your full 15s rest before going agian. Once you can comfortably make it through both sets of 8X100, it's time to either pick up the pace, or drop the rest time. You'll then find you're doing 8X100 going on 1:50. Atfter another couple of months, 8X100 on 1.45 etc.

    Wed: Long swim.

    Straight 3k if you have time. Preferably in open water.

    Thu: Intervals

    Repeat Tuesday's session, or alternatively:

    200 warmup

    4 X 50 Drills

    32 X 50. Alternate between sprint and long slow pace. I'll do these off 1min generally meaning you get a nice break after the sprint, and very little after the slow paced one. You should find the slow 50 becomes "active recovery".

    200 cooldown.

    Total: 2200

    Feel free to completely ignore any/all of the above. It's just what has worked for me over the last couple of years. Good luck, and see you in a few weeks I hope! image

  • I normally aim to do 2.5k to 3k per session – with the odd long swim thrown in for good measure

    Sessions taken the form of

    • Continues swim @ 58spm
    • 400m intervals @59spm | 30 sec recovery
    • 1k interval @57spm| 40 sec recovery
    • Pyramid set: 100,200,400,600,800, 600, 400, 200,100

    I don’t swim a lot though

     PS - when i say odd long swim this can be anything up to 10k

  • Daylight – thanks for the detailed post and encouragement.  I’ll definitely try to work some of those sessions in.

    I think most of my problem is that where swimming is concerned I only seem to have one gear.  I did a longer swim this morning and the pace was no slower than it is for my shorter swims.  Equally, when I look at what pace I did my ‘speedwork’ last week, once I’ve removed the ‘pause’ time the actual swimming pace was only marginally faster than a simple ‘steady’ swim.

    For example – picking some of the sessions I’ve done recently (and ignoring others such as the ow swim).

    Monday 10th – 1.12 miles steady @ 38:54 pace

    Thursday 20th – 1.12 miles (10 x 10 18m lengths) @ 37:56 pace (once recovery time is removed)

    Friday 21st – 1 mile steady @ 39.22 pace

    Monday 17th – 1.8  miles steady @ 39:01 pace

    So my ‘speedwork’ is only fractionally faster than my steady swim pace.  I think what I’m probably doing  is going too fast in the first couple of lengths of the 10 meaning the middle few are probably equal to my steady pace and in the final few I’m hanging on.

    My pool is a bit limited being only 18m and it doesn’t have a swim clock.  I will try some of those though.  I think a good place for me to start would be to do some of those intervals at a faster pace but probably trying to hold back a bit initially so that I can get through the full distance quicker without ending up blowing up!

    I’m not sure if it is achievable in the time left but I’ll try to get the pace down to as close to 35 as I can prior to Wales, sub 35 might be a bit optimistic!

  • OK Phil, the chips are down now.
    How did you go at Tenby? You clearly survived, as I saw you at the end.

    (My overall swim time was 1:36, and I was quite pleased with that, although it wasn't the 1:30 I had anticipated)

  • Amazingly I got 1:26 for the swim which I was VERY surprised with.  I thought the conditions were awful (though cleary better than last year - not that I did it then!) and I couldn't really get into a stoke due to the swell.  I spent a fair bit of time doing breaststroke on the section just past the first turn in an attempt to move forward albeit I was overtaking people trying to do crawl!

    I really thought my watch was wrong when I saw it said 42 minutes for the first lap!

    I was in shock when I saw the time afterwards and still don't really believe it now.  Think I must have taken a short cut!!image  1:40 was my target and I thought that had gone given the conditions!

    Need to decide what next years plans are so I can decide whether I want to keep doing this swimming malarkey.  Though even if I don't go long, suspect I'll do the 113 again.

  • At the very least you should keep a weekly swim session going. If nothing else you'll maintain technique and physique. I pay my club by direct debit for the swim sessions, so the tight git in me makes sure I go as often as is physically possible.

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