Focused Training - RW [Forum]

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  • Friday morning Eurostar out, so I can get up walk around, open windows to avoid others bugs .
    Take own food, high carb millet salad [I salad eat everyday] use H5 carbo drink.
    Get to hotel, 35min easy run, then pick up numbers.


    Saturday, big breakfast, read most the day, 20min easy run, prepare 10 H5 drinks for feed station's & take to registration, before 6pm!!!
    Large pasta lunch, small evening meal.
    use H5 carbo drink, during the day.


    Sunday, breakfast, use H5 carbo drink, find race start, keep warm in side until 30min to go, warm up, stretch inside, then find start line 10min to go.

    Finish Baldini style!!!!!!!!!!
  • Best of luck Barnsley, URR and Big Tim.
  • Tom.Tom. ✭✭✭
    BR, excellant prerace preparation. You might like to tethink the Daily Telegraph though:-)
  • Tom.Tom. ✭✭✭
    B*gger: Tethink = rethink, so much for snappy one liners!
  • BR - Do you plan to do a "Ron Hill" again? Depletion/Loading or do you try the carb drink? Still a few weeks left to experiment, though I can't see what could go wrong with the carb drink. Regarding alcohol, I used to live two years in the beer capital of the world, where they do a proper and not flat beer :) Hardly drink alcohol, a beer occasionly, no hard spirits, because they completely knock me out very quickly!

    PH - Those shakes are pure long chained carbohydrates (99%), 1g of carbohydrate equates 4 Kcal. During the last three days I use 500g, hence 2000 Kcal. As far as I remember I burn off 3500 Kcal during a marathon.
  • URR, yes I'll do a depletion / reload again. Taking on carbs during the marathon, I can't replenish enough to offset what I am losing. I did take an occasional sip of Lucozade during FLM but more as an extra insurance.
  • BR

    I`m intrigued by the application of vaseline to the eyebrows.

    Is this where I`ve been going wrong all these years ?


    Vaselined eyebrows apart, are there any particular liquid carbohydrates (brand names please) that people would recommend for the loading phase ?
  • I used Be-well last time.

    The vaseline on the eyebrows stops sweat getting into your eyes, you having blurred vision and stumbling over a kerb. Fail to prepare, prepare to fail:-)
  • Top thread.

    OK, can any of you guys give me some tips on recovery. I have been training well for the NYCM in Nov and am up to 40+miles a week, with a LS run of 18miles. I ran a 1/2M on Sunday and probably overcooked it a little to the extent where I have had to lay off the training for a couple of days due to a slight back twinge (another story but its OK).
    I want to rest for another 2 days so probably won't get much training done this week.

    What is the best way to ease back into full training?
  • Very interesting reading about the big race preperations.

    One thing that I always do on race days is suss out the finish, especially if I do not know the course.

    I would use this exercise as part of my warm up and it can shave seconds of your race time.
  • Agree with Sodahead, I do this too. In New York and Boston I jog around the finish, to get the picture in my head to what I have to aim for and what I have to use for visualisation.

    Currently, trying to get a copy of Paula Chicago Marathon (anybody have a copy?) to study the course. Still remember a few section. Saw Boston on TV the previous year too and remembered parts of it, though if you run it is always a bit different :)
  • Yes, I try to drive/bike a course before I run it, especially if it is an important race. I break the race down into sections, and rather than focussing on the negatives (hills, boring stretches through industrial estates), try to give myself things to look forward to on the way round ... which could be going past a duckpond, across a park, past a church or something equally trivial. This helps me keep my concentration up as I've always got something to focus on, apart from the finish - which can sometimes seem a very long way away...

  • I have a question about tempo runs

    Today i did 2 x 1½miles with 5 min recovery.
    Firstly is that toomuch/toolittle recovery time.

    Secondly about pace what pace do i do these runs. Today was hard after a 20 minute warm up found it hard to get into my rhythm, could only get HR up to 158 that is MHR - 38.
    2nd one HR managed to peak at 177 MHR-9

    I guess i got a bit carried away on the 2nd a bit too high i imagine

    Reasons why in the 1st rep was caught up in a bit of traffic for first ½mile before hitting the off road bit.
    2nd rep was entirely off road.

    According to Bob glover in his book tempo runs should be 10-30 seconds slower than 10k pace or 25 -45 seconds slower than 5k pace. which he says is about 85 - 92% of MHR.
    Would you say this is about right?

    Today my reps were @ 10:13 and 9:02 pace respectively.

    my own 5k pace = 8:13
    10k pace = 8:57

    10k obviously needs some work
    Tips needed to control pace.
    looking at the figures now they are too wide.
  • Pammie - something I've learnt from cycling ... if you find it hard to get into a rhythm and get your HR up in a speedwork session ... split your warmup into two - an easy 'normal' warm up (say, 15minutes) then another warm up of 10 minutes or so, gradually increasing speed/effort and bringing your heartrate close to where you want it in the first rep. And then starting your session. Might be worth a try?????
  • I like to get hold of the course details & study the route on the map, focus on the bends the straights, especially the end section.
    The advantage I have this year, is it being my second Amsterdam Marathon, plus I'm staying near the 30K point.
    You also do a short loop & go through the finish before the big loop.
    What upset me last year for forgetting to look around at the red light district!!!

    Pammie, I suggest, warming up like LizzyB is saying, then run at just below 10K pace for 3-5miles. Your HR should be in the range of 80-90% MAX. Don't worry if it's not, try this for a few weeks, once your used to what your doing it will seam easier.
  • Gary T, if your only going to miss 4 days then carry on as usual, it's 10 days out or more before you need to worry about changing things.

    But I'd suggest, rather than giving it 4 days out, why not have an easy run of 2-3miles of some grass, then spend some time stretching.
    Sometimes running means you'll recover quicker :-)
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    I plan on jogging for 15 mins the day before Cardiff marathon on the final part of the course.
  • Thanks for the advice BT, I was planning to run say 40 minutes tomorrow and see how it goes. All I have seem to have done the last 3 days is stretch. I had planned to race a 10K on Sunday but will probably give it a miss and concentrate on a LS run.

    The tips about studying the course are good, particularly the final section. I dont run anywhere near the level you guys are at, but I have been finding in my last few races that it would have been good for my mind to be able to picture the closing stages. Pre-race, I keep forgetting to do this as I'm more focussed on going for a slash for the nth time :-)

    Cheers

    GT

  • heya everyone, this is turning into a great thread, I hadn't logged on for a day or two and thought it might have died but it seems to be going strong, thanks to Dipsy and Gumps for their advice, hadn't thought of using a head lamp :S, trying to get out running during lunch-time and either to or from school, now it's just a matter of finding a few other people to run with me, incidentally Gumps, what sort of times were you running with that training?
    Thanks everyone
  • Hi Pammie

    Are you overdoing it speedwise? I thought that tempo equates to lactate threshold? If you are 9bpm under MHR you will be well anaerobic!

    Also you should be feeling fresh to get the benefit - are you sticking too rigidly to a training plan and running too fast when you should be resting or having another easy run?

    I'd be interested to know what you do for the rest of the week?

    I'm having a block of aerobic only training and I am actually speeding up! My 5k time trial is down to 30.45 from 40 mins in about 5 weeks - and I've got another 4 weeks to go before the first race. So I hoping to get a bit quicker still.

    regards

    Dave F.
  • Dave F, lactate threshold is more than 9bpm under MHR
  • BT and Hilly thank you for your advice, and i will try that next week

    Dave i try to run 5-7 times a week though for the last few weeks i have been running 5 days a week

    For about the last 6 weeks i've been doing some kind of speedwork once or twice a week

    My mileage for tha past 5 weeks have been 26,27,31,23,26 looking to up it over the winter, i have done around 40 this year but have been building up again (due to injury) but conservatively

    I've not been sticking to a particular schedule the rest of the week have been running very aerobically 145 or under
  • Also talking on another thread, as i've not done a proper max test, its just figures i've seen in training in the past, so quite possibly mhr could be higher.
  • Bryn - I was getting lots of representative vests at the time, but the main thing was that it was all ejoyable - more like spending some time with my mates and wanting to beat them.

    If you can't find people who can run with you for the whoe way then try and meet up with them for the middle or the end of a run.

    I changed from being a rugby player who ran a bit to a runner who played hocky a bit and increased miles from 12-15 to that 50ish plus the rest.

    Looking at it now, I wish I had time to do that schedule.
  • Bryn, I agree with Gumps there, as your still only young, it's important on making your running fun as well as focused.

    I still do myself.
    Like tonight I'm practising my sports massage [course starts in November] with a few training partners. Then were off out for something to eat.
    Were all serious about our running but enjoy the litter side of life together as well.
    Plus there all sub 32min 10K runners & I'm hoping some will rub off on me :-)
  • Cheers for the advice BT, went out for 30 (ended up doing 60) mins easy yesterday, and back twinge seems to have disappeared.

    My main concern now is that it was racing the Notts 1/2M last weekend that created the injury, and given that NYCM is only 2 months away (7/11) I am more paranoid about racing than ever.

    I would like to ask a few more qu's and any advice will be so welcome.

    Should I continue to race or leave it for now?

    also

    I have entered a 10K this weekend. Should I drop out, and do my LSR for 3-hours say? Or just try to take the race easy (easily said) and run a bit before and after the race?
  • Gary T - I assume you are looking forward for the big day in New York, if I were you I would forget about the other races and focus on the marathon training, do the LSD instead. You can still run 10k's during the rest of the year.
  • Pammie - Re: tempo runs. I wold go along with Bob Glover's guide of 10-30 seconds slower than 10k pace or 25 -45 seconds slower than 5k pace.

    I'm a big fan of tempo runs and have done them regularly for years. If I'm not racing at the weekend on a Saturday morning I usually do 10 min very slow jog warm up followed by 4miles at about 20secs slower than 10k pace followed by 10mins very slow jog warm down. The other thing I've always tried to do is to run the the second two miles a few seconds quicker than the first two - which I normally manage. This helps with the pace judgement. I've no idea about heart rates or lactate threshold but I ran 37mins for 10k in 1985 and I've run 36mins this year so it hasn't gone too badly!

  • Gary T, I'd agree with URR, NY is the big one & a long way to go & not run.
    You may find in a few weeks you feel your back is OK. Then you could consider another race maybe.
    Three weeks before my marathon last year I injured my back at work, it took over two weeks get it sorted & run without discomfort.
    At least I'd got the option of dropping down to the 10K if need be, you don't get that at NY.

    bazza, nice to see you running those times over a 20 year period!!!
    Tempo runs are great & really get you fit quick :-)
  • Thanks bazza, i do enjoy tempo runs myself i did do them earlier this year Feb-Apr. I found them really enjoyable. So thought it was time to reintroduce them. But back then i did them by HR ie. 5,10, 15 beats below estimated LT. This time, i'll probably do them by pace.

    And impressive times you've got there
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