Training plan for sub 3.15

[Deleted User]

Can anyone please recommend a good plan for getting under 3.15- I hope to do for FLM. I believe that if under this time will get entry for next time as well.
My one and only Marath was APril 01- did 3-51 but fitter now, I am prepared to work hard but need a good plan/schedule to help
Thanks for any help/

[Deleted User]

Mike,
I followed the sub 3:30 schedule from the Richard Nerurker (sic) book last FLM and came home in 3:21. I was on for 3:15 until mile 20. This time round I am following his sub 2:45 schedule and have modified it slightly to get me round in 3:00. I have extended the long runs to 22+ miles as I felt these let me down last time when my longest runs were 20 miles.
These schedules are quite varied and keep it all interesting.

[Deleted User]

Thanks for advice. I didnt do enough longer runs before and hoping to do at least 2 22milers .

Wardi

It took me seven marathons to finally break the 3:15 barrier, at the LM this year. Start building up your long runs now. You should be able to run about 18/19 miles by xmas. One speed or hill session per week, one or two races a month won't do any harm. Once into the new year step up the weekly mileage gradually, I averaged 50 per week for the main 16 weeks training (don't count the last two weeks tapering). Do plenty of races, a couple a month if possible. Races make you faster, therefore making your marathon pace feel more comfortable. My club traditionally run three races of 9, 10 and 20 mile duration in Feb/March and this year they fell on consecutive weekends! Tired but very fit was my feeling after the twenty miler! (in a force 6 gale). 10k's and half marathons are also useful.

My long runs between late Dec. and late March were as follows..19,20,20,24,22,24,18,19. The two 24 milers were crucial for confidence and stamina I believe. Me & my fellow marathon colleagues would sometimes run, say, a half marathon then have a 5 mile jog after the race to turn it into a long run.

You can gauge your progress by analysing your times in races during the build up. As you are aspiring to much greater heights than your last marathon you would normally have to achieve the following times to have a chance of breaking 3:15:-

10K...Sub 40 mins
10 miles...circa 65 mins
13.1 miles..1.24-1.28

One of the most accurate estimators of marathon time in my experience is simply to take your 10 mile time and multiply it by three. One of your problems will be your pen allocation at the LM, it tends to go on previous rather than projected time. If you can get near the RW pacers for your projected time stick with them. They got me round in 3:12 including a negative split. I was grinning like a Cheshire cat for several days and very grateful to the pacemen.

Lastly, drink frequently on marathon morning from the minute you get up, but stop about one hour before the start. A quick drink 5 mins before the start will re-quench your thirst. This procedure will prevent you from having to stop for a pee during the race thereby saving you lost time. Also, try to lose a bit of weight if you have it to lose, 4 or 5lbs less to carry for 26 miles is not insignificant. Remember you are looking for every possible advantage.

Lastly, there is no substitute for hard work during a marathon training schedule. In my experience the results are commensurate with the effort that you put in.

This is my first time as a 'good for age' entrant and I feel very privileged to be in this position. Best of luck to you Mike and anyone else who fancies a crack at this particular barrier.

[Deleted User]

Thans a lot for your advice.
I ceratinly need to lose a stone as I am 13 1/2 (6 foot) so bit heavy !
My PB for 1/2 m is 1h-31 but was also when I smoked which i have now stopped competely for long time- so hope I will enjoy more oxygen in my lungs !
For 10 miles i am about 70 min exactly.
At present I am doing about 40-42 miles a week and did long run of 12 miles this Sun- and aim to do about 14 miles this Sunday. So I hope to be on track- but worried re injuries if I start too much too soon.
I will aim for 3-15 as My wife has challamged me- but secretly 3-30 would be more realistic I know.
Thanks for advice. I will keep yoo posted !

[Deleted User]

Definitely do the long runs and races. I've never been convinced that lots of shorter runs are necessary but rather they lead to injury, boredom and demotivation. Do lots of varied training and lower impact stuff ie ski trainer and cycling. A couple of races and knowing you have run 24 miles in training will boost confidence.

ANyway I'm no expert but did 3.15 in my first marathin and 3.01 in my second. Good luck!

cougie

I'm hoping to dip under the 3.15 next time.

I did 3.43 this year, but my longest run was just 16 miles, stop for water and toilet, and then 4 miles of walk/run.

Then I ran a 1.26 Half on the back of London, and a 39 min 10k for my first 10. Both without much consistent training though. Only snag is I bust my leg 3 weeks ago, so it'll be a few more weeks before I can start running. Meantime though I can cycle and use the ski machines.

The long runs I feel are the key. Get those in and you'll do really well - I'm sure a 3.15 can be done.

What time did you say you'd do it in when you applied though ? Crowding further down the field would slow you.

Dustin

Echo the advice here.
I ran 3.31 last year and am aiming for 3.15 in 2003. Although they don't pay me, I can recommend following the RW schedules which I think are published in January.

Also I too suggest you get your long runs up to 15ish by January.
At the moment I'm doing a midweek X/C of 11miles and have done 4 or 5 16-17 milers on Sundays. By the end of the year this will be up to nearer 20miles.

Also I too advocate racing,I find this helps in terms of speed and it splits up the long runs. I do a couple of halfMs and alternate with 22-24 mile runs (as Wardi says for confidence).
Last year for the 3.30 I was averaging about 40 mpw , I reckon this will be nearer 50 in the run up to 2003.

In respect of shorter race times,I've got my 10k down to 40mins althoug I should be capable of 38-39, and my best halfM is only 1.36 but that was done 2 weeks after FLM.Illness and a lack of suitable courses have meant this hasn't been lowered, but I have every confidence this time will be close to 1.30 in the spring.( I ran 68.34 at the GSR 10 miler which equates to low 1.30s for a half).

I wouldn't worry too much about the weight - this should fall off when you start training harder.For example (and i've just dug out my training logs) at the start of this year I was 13st12 , 2 weeks after the FLM I was 12st12. I too am 6ft tall.

As a rough guide (if it helps) my training looks something like this:

Mon : Rest or 30mins easy
Tues : intervals 8*800 at 10k pace or 4*1 mile at 10m pace or 3*2 mile at halfM pace
(longer reps for marathon training)
Weds : midweek long run 8-15 miles
Thur : Tempo run at target Marathon pace building up towards 12-15 miles
Fri : Rest !
Sat : Hills/fartlek/gym work
Sun : race or long run

Good luck and keep us posted

Dustin

Oh and if anyone wants to make suggestions about my schedule please do!

[Deleted User]

Dear Mike et al

I have now run sub 3:15 in last 2 years, after 5hrs 10 in 1996 (!!). My tips:
1. DO NOT run lots of 20+ miles; do 15 milers in Jan, 18 milers in Feb, 20 - 22 in March (2 preferably)
2. Do hill training - it really works
3. Follow runner's world 3:15 guides
4. Stick with runner's world pacers as long as you can.

I do not use the pacers as I can not run negative splits. My PBS are 10mile = 68 mins; half = 94 mins; marathon = 3:11

Good luck

[Deleted User]

Martin, why do you not recommned "lots of 20+ miles"?

I did 2x17 and 1x20 last year, and really felt it by 13 miles. Still managed 3:41.

I intend to start to do more longer runs, and start them sooner this time. I'm aiming for sub 3:30.

[Deleted User]

Martin, it's interesting that you suggest not running too many 20+ milers. My experience of my first FLM was to run the first half in 1:34, but fell flat after 20 miles and finished in 3:21. The one thing I felt was missing from my training was sufficient long runs of 20+ miles to get me used to the fatigue.
Why do you suggest only two?

[Deleted User]

Based on my experience. A few pointers
1. Running 20+ miles in training helps the psychology, and general stamina. When you run FLM, you run faster and hence use up more of your "capacity" quicker. Training needs to be mixed so that at marathon pace less energy is used, hence hills and shorter work.
2. Long runs make you injured - one of my magic books says over 60 miles per week is too much (unless you are an athlete). You WILL get injured and/or pick up colds etc which stop the training
3. You only improve when you rest. Lots of 20 milers means LOTS of rest - and most runners don't want to rest - and get injured/ill.

I have 3 FLMs under 3:20, average mileage creeps up from 30 miles to 50 miles (peak) with most of February around 48.

OH, by the by - everyone (and I mean everyone including even Paula R) falls flat somewhere around 20 - you run out of glycogen - and have to start converting fat. The way I "break the wall" is to focus hard on my mile splits and to find someone near me who looks steady and good. I did check the rsults of colleagues and found that most people REALLY slow down; well my last mile was 7:30 pace, and my first 14 miles wre all at 7:10 pace - I slowed down much less than those around me.

[Deleted User]

Dear all-
Thanks for the tremendous response and advice.
I will take it all on board !
Hope to do 14-15 miles this Sunday/
Just want to keep injury free whilst incr mileage.
Best wishes all..

cougie

Martin I agree with you on mileages over 60 would make you more susceptible to injuty and illness.

What I intend (hope) to do is about 3 weeks when I get a 20 miler in on the Sunday, and then maybe 3 faster runs of 8 miles or so the rest of the week. So only doing about 44 miles or so. That should be pretty safe shouldn't it ?

Oh - the 3 weeks won't be consecutive so I won't get too tired !