Sub 5 hours

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  • Shades no 20 milers as far as I know in Scotland. I am planning a half marathon in November but some of that is off-road but majority on road, I will try the steady pace stategy there and try to speed up at the end.

    I would say that taking on fuel is not something I do well, this is because I do suffer from the dreaded trots on ocasions and restrict milk and wheat products to control IBS. I tend to take jelly babies and sometimes fruit pastilles on my long runs and sip on water. I used to take fruit juice with me but physio says it contains too much acid and when your stomach is empty its not the ideal thing to take.

    Hi Sore Toes.
  • The fuel takes practice. I used to eat a Nutrigrain bar at 17 miles, plus sweets from 6 miles. I also find chocolate very helpful too, giant Smarties, Minstrels or choc buttons. I find chocolate easier on the stomach. Just a matter of finding what suits you.

    From my first marathon I've suffered from stomach cramps (no trots) due to excess acid. I now take a 12 hour antacid tablet after breakfast on race day so rarely suffer now. I recommended them to a friend who was always ill after a marathon and usually had to spend race evening lying down and couldn't eat until Monday. last time we did a marathon together we both had fish and chips after the race and he felt great.
  • Thanks Shades, I will start experimenting with different types of fuel and see how the stomach reacts.

    Last night did 9k in around 60 mins so not too bad, have done 54 mins in the past but I think the legs are still recovering from Loch Ness. Today I am doing 60 mins @ HR below 120, try to average 115. This evening it will be 30 min run/walk with beginners. I have a massage booked for this afternoon.
  • EP - thanks for the offer - I've mailed you!
  • Pix - can you email me a copy too please? I'll email you.


    Jane - blimey, you're a full time athlete!
  • Running keeps me busy Shades, tried a new route today as I had to drop hubby off somewhere I don't normally go. I liked it so will do it again sometime. Very flat though so was easy to keep HR steady and low.
  • Just off to read the training plan now, thanks Pix
  • Well it's different! But I wouldn't critise any training plan if that plan suits the runner and fits in with their lifestyle. We can all write the perfect plan but sticking to it is another thing.

    What level of mileage/fitness are you supposed to have to start at Wk 1?

    I'm amazed by the 400m reps from week 1, what period of recovery or distance of recovery are you supposed to have? And 16 x 400 is some session.

    The only serious critiscm I have is that there are no races in the training programme. Would certainly advise at least on half marathon and one 20 miler before race day.

    Most importantly Pix, what do you think of it? does it suit you?
  • But you can do the long run pace now?

    When are you starting?
  • 16 x 400???????????

    that s just crazy!
  • SIXTEEN REPS?
  • I'm aiming to do sub-5 this year. Previous marathon times have been 5.33 Edinburgh (2003), 5,28 FLM (2004) and 5.30 Edinburgh (2004). My real target is 4.48...
  • 16 reps of 400 works out to be 4 miles if you add on about 200 meters per recovery, you could walk them, it works out at 6 miles, add on warm up and cool down another 2 miles? making 8 miles in total. Doable but a very tough session.


    Hi Marathon Maz. How is the training going at the moment?

  • Its going alright thanks Jane. Just done a couple of 10K recently and am working towards the Dundee 10 mile race on 7 Nov. Just trying to get four decent runs a week in at the moment and at least 3 spinfit sessions on top of that. I just plan to maintain the momentum I have built up so far and will really focus on the more intense training after Christmas.
  • MM, I may see you at the Dundee 10 miler, I have yet to send off my entry form.
  • Maz - why is 4.48 your real target? Just so happens that's my Pb (+ 5 seconds!)
  • I would just like to do an 11 minute mile marathon. I had planned to do this last year and all through training I was on course to do it. My plan was to link up with the RW 11 min mile pace group - I couldn't find them and unfortunately it was all down hill from there!
  • Pix - I think you're mad (sorry) to attempt this training programme when the paces are too fast for you. I could follow a sub 4 hr plan but it wouldn't make me a sub 4 hr runner unless the training paces are right for me.

    Also Xmas is too late for you to start a 17 week plan, that allows you no time in case you get a cold or a niggle. Allow 2 to 3 weeks for that.

    May I suggest you go to www.mcmillanrunning.com use the pace calculator, put in your most recent race time that you think honestly reflected your current fitness. Then use those recommended paces to train at. If when you start your 17 wk plan you are not at the pace on the 4.45 plan (and you would probably need to be running much faster than that as long runs must be run at a slow easy pace) then I suggest you adjust the plan to suit your speeds.
  • 16 x 400 does sound a lot, but it seems to me that they are "relatively" slow for the target time. 2.25-2.35 per 400 is about 10 min miling.

    I was thinking of doing yasso 800s - where you build up to 10 x 800. For a 4h45m marathon, you would do the 800m in 4m45s (ie. 9.30 min miles) with a 4.45 jog recovery.

    So compared to that, the 16x400 doesn't sound so bad.

    Mind you, last time I only got as far as 5 x 800 before deciding I couldn't cope with anything resembling speedwork and just concentrated on distance.

  • Maz - I assume you were looking for the pacers at Edinburgh - I haven't done that one and it may be a long time before I do having just found out how much they intend to charge as an entry fee.

    When's your next marathon? Perhaps your next goal should be 12 min miles, that would give you a finishing time of 5.15 a big chunk off your PB and a big step nearer your goal
  • What I was doing Yasso's before doing Abingdon I was doing 800 in about 4.40 and sometimes managed 4.30, I have broken 2 mins for 400 on several ocasions but not for a while.

    I think if you are finding the pace a bit too tough for intervals add some time to the recovery periods or break up the intervals into sets so you could do 4 x 4 with double recovery time between sets.

    EP have you ever timed yourself doing a 400 around a track, maybe the place to start to see if the paces outlined are good for you. Remember all good training plans are adaptable.
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