Hard Marathon Training with Mike Gratton

1457910794

Comments

  • So, I've just done a 10ml race averging 91% (though pace was very disappointing - just coming back from iron-deficiency). What, if anything, does this indicate. Should I be able to extrapolate marathon HR from it ?
  • Thank you Mike! Am much the wiser :)
  • Hi Tigger's Mate, 91% average is very high for 10 miles, although your threashold level may of course be higher than 85% - these are broad figures and to get any degree of accuracy you will need to do a Max test. Next time you do a half marathon check your average again and you won't be far off assessing your threashold level.

    Your marathon pace will be just below your threashold level, but your ability to hold that pace throughout a marathon will depend on your general conditioning as HR will creep up as dehydration and glycogen depletion kick in.

  • PodroPodro ✭✭✭
    I've just finished my first week of trying to follow Mike's hard training schedule as best I can. I've managed 9 hours running for a total of 64.5 miles with only two double run days. This compares to approximately 10 hours for Mike's schedule with 6-7 double run days.

    I have to admit that by Sunday I was completely knackered. I was planning to do a second run on sunday evening but couldn't face dragging myself out the door. Looking back through my year training diary I find I have previously peaked at 65 miles in my marathon training and would typically do 40-50 miles per week.
    Today however the tiredness seems to be going and I didn't feel that I was having to flog myself to get moving on the morning run.

    Presumably loads of others are following the schedule. How are you all getting on?
  • That's a big jump in mileage Podro - careful that you don't over do it, maybe introduce twice a day only after establishing 7 single daly sessions at a compfortable pace.
  • PodroPodro ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the advice Mike. My last 65 mile week was 6 weeks ago and I ran Leicester marathon 3 weeks ago. I've been cranking up my mileage steadily since then but may have overdone it somewhat last week.
  • thank you very much for answering my questions. I didnt know what working HR was - obviously hadnt read enough. This makes things harder for me since my RHR is 40 & I'm 46. Mike - I'm so glad that you tried as hard as you could in races - cos I'm not one who can do a race without trying my best (doesnt mean that I do my best of course!) Sorry, but the more advice you give, provokes more questions!
    Is early season training base training then? Also - I think brackets for some runs are a very good idea!
  • Yep, Base training, also known as conditioning training is the bulk stuff you do to get in shape before putting together the harder work that brings you to a peak.
  • ChaosChaos ✭✭✭
    FAS - the only way I can force myself not to go all out in races is to offer to pace someone else. Works a treat and can actually be very rewarding if they get a PB as a result.
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    Mike-I have a question. Today I had sceduled an easy run of 7 miles. I did 5 miles easy then felt I wanted to increase the pace just for a couple of miles, so I upped it to 1/2M pace for the final 2 miles. Does this still allow the same aerobic conditioning to take place or by going faster over the last couple of miles was I changing the run to anaerobic? A bit confused:o)
  • No Hilly, you were basically doing aerobic conditioning - all of your running doesn't have to be at 70%, you are excused if you feel like putting in the odd effort to spice it up.
  • Mike, i am trying to follow some of your schedule as best as i can. trying to run twice on somedays. anyway sunday i manage to run for just over two hours and then to the shock of my family i went out for another 30 minutes. result on monday legs were fine. the week before i done 17 miles on the sunday and could hardley move on the monday. this monday i manage 2 miles in the morning and a hour in the evening. i will be reading this thread with great interest as my club mate who i beat by 29 secs in last years london has throw down the gauntley so i have to go faster than last years 3.12
  • Thanks, Mike for reply to my question. I'll try and get a max test, which I think should show up threshold level on route ?
  • Hi, I got very motivated last week and started following the schedule. I was heading for 60+ miles for the week but have picked up a groin strain. It's in the early stages so will hopefully be ok with 2 weeks rest and some stretching.
    Good luck to everyone with your training, I can't wait to get back to it.
  • Take care of the groin strain Annabelle - do you know what caused it as they can be a devil to shift?

    I saw Janice Moorekite on Friday and she said you had met up - it will be a good group for you to train with.
  • Hi Mike, I had a slight problem with it earlier in the year, it cleared up when I had to rest because of another injury. It seems to be connected with pain in my lower back on the same side. Am seeing my phisio today.
    Had a good session with Janice last week, she is really fantastic, thank you.
  • Hi Annabelle, if it is related to a lower back problem it would be as well to take a look at that first. One of the problems groin strain can lead to is Osteitis Pubis Synthasis, which is an inflamtation on the pubic bone caused by an unequal force on this area - I had it in 1989 and it was caused by a tilted pelvis causing strain on the adductor muscles which in turn pulled on the attachment to the pelvic bone - net effect was 6 months off and injections in my lower back to stabalise the SI joint.
  • Hi, just back from the phisio and feeling very sore, where he has stretched and pulled me. There has been a problem there for a while which has been agrivated recently where I do a lot of off road running, at this time of the year the ground is very muddy and uneven. Similar to what you describe above, my pelvis is twisted and the tendons in my leg are pulling on the pubic bone. I don't want to end up like you, having 6 months off and injections so am going to rest until it's better.
  • Very sensible Annabelle - when you get back you'll be better running on flattish routes and on true surfaces like playing fields, good trails and roads for a bit.
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear that Annabelle. Hope it heals soon for you!
  • Thanks for the advice Mike, does anyone know if there are any of the major national competitions that do 5k or 10k apart from XC for junior men as I havent been able to find any so far?
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    Mike-if a days training says do 6 miles in the morning and 5 in the afternoon, does it make any difference to run once and just do 11 miles or is it best to do the 2 runs?

    Sometimes 2 shorter runs suits me for recovery or time purposes, but other times it's easier to combine both distances and do 1 run.
  • Depends on the purpose of the two runs - if one is easy and one is a quality session they have a different purpose to if they are both easy/steady. If it is quality it is best to do the two runs seperately so that you can achieve the quality - if they are effectively recovery runs then a single run of 8 to 10 miles kept steady will be OK.
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    So am I to take it that doing 70 miles on 7 runs a week is just as good as doing 70 miles on say 12 runs a week as long as the different types of sessions are covered. Or would doing 12 runs be better for building mitochondria?
  • I'd have thought 70mpw on singles is far better than 70mpw on doubles. As you said, if it is a recovery day then 2 x 5 is maybe preferable to 1 x 10 but for your main sessions a higher mileage run would create more benefits.
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    I thought that would be the case, but wasn't sure if it would be better to do lots of short doubles or longer once a day runs. Although there are days when I'd prefer to do 2 short runs for recovery.

    This week I'll have got to 72 miles with only 1 double run. Whereas last week I did the same mileage, but had 3 double runs-confused you yet:o)
  • Better to do your 70 miles as singles Hilly - in reality it will be a long run on Sunday which will bring the length of the mid week runs down a bit. To get lileage in excess of 70 you then need to start to think about twice a day.
  • F.oggyF.oggy ✭✭✭
    This week I am running 39 miles over 6 days consisting of
    Mon 4
    Tue 8
    Wed 3
    Thur 8
    Fri 3
    Sat 13
    I would like to increase this to 50 mpw over next month to six weeks.Where should I add the extra miles whilst still keeping Sundays free?
  • Hi Foggyone, Key session is Sat, gradually increase that up by a mile a week over your 6 weeks. Try to get Tue up to 10 miles and Monday/Friday up to 5. Keep Wed as low mileage but do some high quality running - either a tempo run at half marathon speed over the 3 miles (do a warm-up first), or a fartlek session with around 10 efforts of varrying distances and speeds to bring some pace into your running.
Sign In or Register to comment.