Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Hard Marathon Training with Mike Gratton
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
Ay up Eb,
the Shrews are going well, the same can't be said for the Imps yet again!!
I've not been around for quite a while, just concentrating on trying to get some quality to my training. My recent races have been "Race the Train" where I finished 35th, and on Sunday I came 5th in the Mablethorpe 10K, in a fairly slow time of 37:22. I was expecting to get around in a pb, but I was a minute outside of that even though I threw the kitchen sink at it.
Now back to getting some mileage back in and possibly going to have a run out in the Rowbotham's Round Rotherham 50, in December, wiyth the aim to run it as a recce because I intend to race it next year when it falls on my 50th birthday. Perhaps Susie should join in so we can have a double birthday party.
Hope you are all keeping well and injury free..........looking forward to building for a good FLM next year....
Hi Pammie.
Hi Tony. Yes about time my team started turning their fortunes around - I managed to miss the 7 goals on Saturday due to trying to get brownie points at home. Aaargh!
Great result at Race the Train Tony. Like you I'm nowe trying to get back into building the miles. I've just come off a season of triathlon training ending with the Monaco half ironman just over a week ago. However I've entered the Amsterdam marathon on 19 October and my mileage has been nowhere near enough at this stage. I did a 17 miler on Sunday which was a verty painful experience, so no PB attempt for me in Amsterdam I suspect.
Not in FLM but you have reminded me I need to go off and see if I can enter Paris!
Hello - I'm still here, but been unable to run for 3 and a half months with ITB problems. They are gradually getting better and have done 3 runs this week at last: 3.7 miles on Sunday; 2 miles on Tuesday with huge DOMS from Sunday's run and 20 mins on a treadmill today. But I can't half heave some iron about! Going to try a long run tomorrow: 5 miles!!!
Hi Eb/SC/TTT etc
SC - sorry to hear about the injuries, but I sense another gargantuan effort will see you build towards another marathon next year!
TTT - I assume you are not running in the suit with those sorts of results?
Eb - good luck in Amsterdam.
Quick update - I did the Anglesey Marathon yesterday. It was also the British Masters. Came third overall and second in the masters....beaten by Dennis Walmsley - so that was a D. Walmsley first, and a D Walmsley second!! Bizarre.
I did 2:46, but ran very much within myself over the last half of a very tough course, since a muscle spasm in my left quad was causing me no end of grief and pain. I wouldn't have caught the top two anyway, but would have taken off two or three minutes without it (I was comfortable at half-way in 1:18 and a bit). I've had a near perfect 5 months of training, and stuck to the Gratton plan with near precision.
Anyone looking for a well-organised autumn marathon next year, on a picturesque course, would be well advised to put Anglesey on their short-list....unless it's a PB you want. A great event it's become over the years.
Going to do the very flat Frankfurt in five weeks time. I reckon my legs are sadly struggling with the pounding from 14 marathons now, and old age, but there's a good chance of sub 2:40 (possibly 2:37 with any luck). Don't think I'll be running in racers anymore though...I've actually had loads of muscle spasm injuries (well, not really injuries are they) in the muscles that take the eccentric forces recently (both quads now, outside of my calves). Oh to be young again....
Dids - magnificent effort, you poor old thing - well done! And good luck in Frankfurt. Pleased to hear someone's still running and racing.
And thanks to Tom, Eb and yourself for good wishes. However, I am getting no younger, and cannot honestly see myself ever doing another marathon - after about 40,000 miles of running, I think I can no longer manage 50+ mile weeks any more. Did my "long" run on Sunday: 5.9 miles @ 8:30 pace and stopping to take photos on the way as the weather was stunning.
And tonight I joined in with the slow ladies at the back while coaching and managed 5 x 1k - but I didn't clock the times, as I knew I would be too depressed. But I am amzaed I managed it at all. My only ambition now is to be able to run 3-4 times a week and up to 10 miles on a weekend, just to stop me turning into a fat slob. Still got lots of aches and pains. But any run is a miracle these days for me.
For myself, I'm planning on racing 10k next weekend - my first road race for two years!
I suppose I'm just like you, when I'm running I'm like a rash on the forum - when I'm not it's just one long sulk!!
Glad to hear that you are on the move again S-C. I have the greatest symopathy with the effects of old age, it sucks getting older, especilally when in your head you are at least 15 years younger. No FLM for me, was hoping to do New York next year but life is such a muddle do not know where I will be living or what is going on. Just glad to be able to get out and run at all, though a paltry 20 miles a week means I should not be on this thread!
All the best to everyone else clocking up the miles.
As regards races and birthdays, I aim to do Comrades when I am 55....and then retire if I have not fallen apart first.
It's good to see the thread come alive again, albeit with the same old woes from SC, Keep going old woman!!!
Dids, excellent run at Anglsey and good look for your next effort. As for the tiger suit, I've had it stuffed and it lives just outside the back door to remind me never to do anything as stupid as that again........EVER
Tootie, when will you be doing comrades? I hope to do it in 2010 when I'll be V50.
Definitely good to see the thread is not moribund - I finally started some decent hard training and prepared to de-lurk just when the thread died...
LD - congrats on a blistering marathon, sounds like sub 2:40 is on the cards.
SC - glad to hear you're on the mend, albeit slowly. 40,000 miles of running is phenomenal.
I've been (reasonably) hard training for a couple of months in preparation for Beachy Head Marathon at the end of October (6 days a week, with the odd double - but quite low overall mileage - not the full Gratton). I nearly overdid it with a heavy week with 3 long (>12M) hilly runs at the end of July, and ended up with a serious case of the plods. A week not running did the trick, and I've been gearing up since then.
Hard to know where I am in terms of pace - nearly all my runs are up and down pretty serious hills. I managed 19:46 in a flatish 5K in July, and think I should be able to beat my Beachy Head PB (first and only marathon to date...) of 3:56. A hilly 20K on sunday, and then a very hilly 20 miler to weeks after that will give me a better sense of what to go for. After Beachy Head I'm going to see how I feel (it bust my legs for months afterwards two years ago) and if I'm still walking I'll target a flat marathon sometime in the spring and start some seriously hard training and see if I can have a shot at a sub 3.
All the best to everyone else still reading / running.
Hello All,
I ran the Sydney marathon last Sunday. I finished in 2.55 (1/2 way 1.25). It was a tough day. The weather has changed recently from cool still mornings - perfect for running, to hot and windy. If the weather was good I was in shape to run between 2.40-2.45.
It was already about 17 degrees when we started at 7.15 and it gradually got warmer, and windier. The course is also hard, especially the second half. The winner was a Kenyan, and he finished in 2.19, the second Kenyan finished in about 2.25.
I wore the wrong shoes. I opted for a very light pair of racers. I would of been better off with a pair of racer trainers to protect my feet. The road surface is rough in some places and it makes your feet very sore. My left quadricep muscles started to get very sore at about 11 miles, and it made running painful.
I was going OK until about 35k then started to find it very hard work. This is when I lost most of my time. I saw a video of me crossing the finishing line and I looked like I was race walking. More protective shoes and I would of not lost so much time.
Still, I got round and what is encouraging is that I ran 10k last Christmas in 40.15, and now I have just run a marathon in hot and windy weather on a hilly course at a similar pace as I ran the 10k, so that is pleasing, especially after the injury ravaged year of 2007.
My first run today and my quadriceps are still sore. I will have it looked at next week.
Take care all.
Tootie:
go for 2010, that is when I am planning to go, but i's still a long way off.
Karl;
well done in Sydney, you should be pleased with that result and goes to show that your hard work has paid off.
Well done on the marathons Dids and Karl. Well done for runing at all S-C!
Oh yes - hi folks - nice to see the thread back.
I over-raced totally during the summer track season, racing for both the vets and seniors, so after 3 months including 1500m, 6x3000m 1x5000m, 3x5km, 2x5miles all raced completely eyeballs out, my legs and calves in particular were completely shot - not injured as such but I'd be wracked with cramp the night after races or speedwork and they'd often feel like they were in a constant state of just-about-to-spasm. My mileage dropped right down and I lost a lot of form. I was never actually injured though - just out of sorts big style.
Now that the season's over my legs have settled and I've done 3 weeks of high quality training. My calves are still a bit tight from time to time, but I've managed to put some consistent, and hard, training together. This last week was the highest quality I've done in a long time, with 5x1k at 5k pace on Wed, 4 miles at (nearly) 10k pace on Fri and this little 15-miler yesterday:
8:59 108bpm ave
8:59 111bpm
8:40 114bpm
8:39 117bpm
8:12 125bpm
8:18 126bpm
8:02 128bpm
8:03 129bpm
7:45 132bpm
7:33 132bpm
7:21 136bpm
7:11 139bpm
7:08 145bpm
7:03 148bpm
last mile jogged
I still haven't heard from London Marathon yet about the champ place, so I take that as a good sign that they are waiting to see how many places they have (even though, having verbally confirmed they have my application, they said I wouldn't get in). The plan is to do Gosport HM in 7 weeks and try to dip under 1:30. That's 6:52/mile, but even though miles 13 and 14 yesterday felt really tough, I think I have enough HR reserve to make it happen (I've run marathons at 147bpm) - fingers crossed.
Train hard people!
I ran the Firle 20k yesterday - the only race I've run since the Three Forts Half back in May. Its another very hilly course. The hard(ish) training of the last few months seems to be paying off - I threw everything at it and finished in 1:31:17. According to my Garmin it was 12.7 miles, which means I should be able to go sub 1:30 on a flat half marathon. The 12th mile (down a very steep road from the top of the South Downs to Firle) was done in 5:37 but there is no way I could run that fast on the flat. The rest of the race is so up and down that the mile paces are pretty meaningless.
A few days of recovery runs and then back to piling on the hilly miles in preparation for Beachy Head.
Have a good Beachy Head Sam. Have you done it before? It's a lovely run.
Do we know anyone who ran Berlin yesterday? A mate of mine did it in 2:03:59
I did Beachy Head for my first marathon 2 years ago - definitely a beautiful run, but hard work...
Sam, I reckon Beachy Head is easy, as it's so hilly you just back right off and enjoy the views and saunter home a good hour slower than normal. Mind you, if you want to run it quickly then that's a whole different situation.
Tootie - I hope you can get everything back together and report some hard training yourself!
Hello and good afternoon.
Well, my old legs recovered very quickly from the Anglesey Marathon (most of my recent marathons have really taken a heavy toll I've found). Like Carl, my left quad stopped me from running flat out, so I suspect this might have helped me, and I also wonder whether running a hilly course is actually kinder than constant pounding of the flats?
I didn't run for 4 days and have been back training for 5 days now....mainly I've been in the gym doing 20 mins rowing, 20-30 mins cross-training and 20 mins hard uphill running. Yesterday I added a steady/fast 3.5 miles on the road.
Frankfurt marathon 3 weeks and 5 days off, so I'm aiming to work on overall strength. Hence the rowing, and uphills. Absolutely no good reason to do this, except when I first broke 3 hours a few years back, I'd done another marathon close to it and just concentrated on hills for a few weeks. So, just going with a gut feeling that's all.
I'll do 2 or 3 speed sessions next two weeks. Probably will just do one run of about 17-18 miles and that's it. Taper.
Starting to feel up for it!
LD and Karl, both impressive marathons. Anything sub 3 comes with an automatic 'impressed' label from me.
Amsterdam is looming for me, now just less than 3 weeks away. It will be an interesting experiment to see what shape I'm in, after having been triathlon training all summer with very few runs at anything more than 70%mhr, but presumably building up a big endurance base over a 16 week block. I say presumably because on my subsequent long runs I haven't felt very well conditioned to the endurance and have found them a struggle.
Since doing Monaco half IM I have had 3 weeks of training so there'll be a total gap of 6 weeks between Monaco and Amsterdam. In Monaco I ran a half mara (not particularly quickly) after having swum and been in the saddle on some serious climbs for over 5 hours. I felt then even more knackered than I have done in a marathon.
When I trained at my hardest for London in April I posted 3.01.45. Barring injury my intention is to go again at 3 hour pace, try and get the pacing right to hit halfway in 1.31 and see where I go. It will be interesting to see whether all that cross training has in fact put me in shape to run at my best or whether I blow up spectacularly, probably anywhere from 16m onwards.
Best of luck with Frankfurt / Amsterdam LD and ebenezer.
It's so nice to hear from Susie again- I figured the life would come back into the thread when a critical mass of you shook of injuries and other priorities. And well done to Karl - what progress since your 10k! And best wishes to Tony, Tootie, Sam, Eb et al.
The financial world is collapsing about our ears, unemployment will soon rise and we will mostly be a bit poorer as a result. But if you have people who love you, can run and can eat, life is still full of riches.
So please don't anyone think I will be lining up in Blackheath come next April.I will be supporting however.
Its great to hear you're running again SC - albeit slowly and without any resolution of the ITB problem. Fingers crossed it doesn't get worse. Maybe it will even get better.
Sound views on the current financial situation too - its time to start valuing what you've got... I hope the fall out in terms of unemployment isn't too bad though.
Back to running - just a couple of very gentle 5 mile runs since Sunday - my legs still feel sore - particularly the quads which seem to have taken a real hammering coming down the hill so fast in the Firle 20k. Hopefully they'll have recovered in time for a very long run on sunday.
Western society is going to hell in a hand-cart with its unsustainable lifestyles, mortgaging their futures with excessive debt, carbon depletion and bodyfat. I despair sometimes. The current financial crisis has the sound of chickens coming home to roost about it. People have been mistaking consuming with living and pleasure with happiness - a Grumpy Old Running Economist writes!
Apologies for that outburst. I am happy that I managed to run 21 miles last week. Who cares that I can't afford things I don't really need?
Who else is happy out there?
Eb - sounds like a good approach to me!
Sam - the hills I am doing are all treadmill hills. So, that can be 20-30 mins of steady climbing...I start off at 12kph, 2% incline, then steadily progress to 13.5kph, 4.5% incline....then ease off for the last few minutes.
I have to confess that I have not seen this type of hill training advocated. It's generally reps for 2 mins at 16-17kph, but I feel it must be beneficial because:
a) less pounding - which I'm hoping allows my legs to recover from the pummelling of a marathon, certainly my quads need a break!
b) improves form - I have to run slightly on toes, arms pumping, but nice upright posture
c) increases strength - gravity and all that...
But that's just my theory, and no doubt it'll be bunkum.
SC - I'm not so sure about the ecomony. It's going to get worse, and I can see as a small business we'll face some really hard times. But, of course, in perspective it's really not the be-all and end-all, and a lot of what you say is very true indeed.
However, I am sure that the people who will suffer the most are the people already facing daily hardship. When you owe a lot to the bank, your house has gone, and so has your job, it'll take a strong person to look on the bright side.
I actually think rich people will end up richer. They'll buy the repossesed houses at rock-bottom prices and then, when we emerge from the gloom (as we will), we'll see another period of growth - benefitting those that can still afford to invest now.
However, if society generally reassesses the values of life other than dosh, you can but hope that the world will be a kinder place.