Sub 4.15

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  • Still haven't decided whether to 'believe' the race-time predictor. Based on recent 10k time, my marathon should be 4.09.
    Does that mean I've got to expect to run the marathon at the pace I did the 10k,OR if I m capable of that time for a 10k, a 4.09 is a reasonable target?! Currently trying to follow the 'ultimate' sub 4.30 from this website. Tweaking the intensity a bit, because its proving to be very do-able, if you get my meaning.
    Sorry for rambling - too many night duties!!
  • Normski
    the way I've interpreted it is if you can do a 10k in a certain time, then given the same level of training but for the marathon, then everybody has a reasonable target which is based on this. It doesn't mean you run the marathon at the same pace as the 10k (fortunately!). However, your target time can also be affected by your own natural abilities. For instance, some people are better at shorter events as speed comes more easily to them, whilst some people over-perform at longer races relative to their times for shorter races as their endurance is naturally better. Hope this isn't a ramble and I've made sense!
  • by the way, Normski, what is your 10k time as your target sounds suspiciously similar to mine!
  • did my first 10k for a number of years last week - 53.10. The schedule said aim for sub 55, so I was pleased with that. What was yours?
  • I'd agree with slowlegs there. But I'd also add that its quite hard to predict a marathon off a 10k time as the distance is so different. If you've done a half marathon this would give you a much better predictor I would think?

    For example my 10k pb is 51.30 which would predict me a sub 4hr marathon but last year (despite following a sub 4 programme to the letter and doing plenty of long runs) I only managed 4.41.

    I haven't run any better at 10k this year, although I've got very close to that time again, but I have taken over 5 mins off my half marathon time which now predicts me a 4.10 marathon - I still think thats a bit optimistic though!!!


  • I agree that it is very difficult to predict times, thats what I was trying to say, some people are naturally better at certain distances i.e. sprints, middle distance and long distance and, of course, with age it can change also - I think most people lose their speed - also women tend to have more endurance. My last 10k time was 54 minutes (I look on my PB as irrelevant as it was 8 years ago!). My 10 mile PB is 88 minutes set a year ago. Both of these put me under 4.15 but I don't really trust them as I have struggled to run under 2 hours for a half marathon! (although I must admit I've never really trained for one!)
  • hmmmm - 10 mile race in 10 days time - 88 mins would be lovely!!!
  • Mmmm- think it just depends on the day - my 10k pb is 49:57, but is more usually around 51/52 mins, and I've done a half at 1:51:30, but was v hard, whereas at 1:55-1:58ish I am comfortable. 26.2 miles is an AWFUL long way to be UNCOMFORTABLE so I guess something between 4:15-4:45 is realistic. Managed 4:39 last time on half pb of 1:56, so am hoping to dip under 4:30, and the closer to 4:15 the better!!
  • PS did 10 mile race recently 1:30 on a DREADFUL hangover! SO I guess 88 mins could have been achievable on little less red wine!
  • Happyrunning - i had a great 10mile race on a hangover. somehow, my aching legs took my mind off my pounding head!
    Am feeling really pleased tonight. I did my first speed session, per the RW programme. Was most pleased as actually managed to break the mental barrier of doing it on the treadmill. I have not run on a treadmill since I started running regularly, so was quite strange to be back on it, and finding how much easier it felt
    I will still do as much as I can outside, but I travel a lot with my work and stay in a lot of hotels, so at least this way I know I can use the hotel gym!
  • I'm with you there,Newbie 1. I stay in hotels occasionally with work. The last time being this week. Last time in the same hotel gym - 5 mins on the treadie, struggled, got bored etc etc. THIS time did more than 30 mins, and loved it! Most of it is the mental thing. Having said that, after 30 minutes I'd had enough of Kiss FM!
    What line of work are you in?
  • work for an accountancy firm so lots of time out at clients. Am rather wondering how I am going to fit big mileage in when I am working 12hr days at client sites - but I guess I will cross that bridge when I come to it!
    someone told me that someone like Paula Radcliffe trained mentally by running long distances on a treadmill, facing a white wall. what an appalling thought!
  • i'm an accountant too (although i left the accountancy firm thing behind a lot of years ago!)

    i started a new job 2 weeks ago and joined a gym there so as of next week i can train in the gym midweek - i find getting out in the evening when its cold and dark almost impossible so even if i only get 4-5 miles in on the treadmill its better than nothing.

    thankfully 12hr days seem less likely at the new job (well except during month end anyway!!!)

  • So this weekend I tried to expand my running horizons and tried 2 new things.

    Energy gel on long run - gross, made me gag

    Cold bath after run to stop legs aching - was actually rendered speechless it was so unpleasant! Mind you, I guess not all bad, as my legs don't ache at all this morning...Anyone else had a go at this?

    Told a non running friend about both - she was horrified! Realised I might be starting to lose the plot!
  • Newbie - Did exactly the same yesterday on my 9 miler. Took a gel half way round. It wasn't too bad.

    When I got home I sat in a bath of cold water for ten minutes. Legs went numb and the wife p****d herself laughing, but I don't ache at all today, so it must be right. It's definitely worth ten minutes of discomfort for the benefits that follow.
  • Hello all.This is my first pop into this thread.This is actually my 4th marathon,one done 8 years ago and then FLM and Dublin last year.All my predictor times indicate that I have 4 hrs in me but at every single marathon I have fallen apart at approx 20-21 miles.It is energy levels with me as I know that I have trained enough before each one.I have been running for nearly ten years now and I have now decided to aim at 4.15 and see where that gets me.I did 4.27 at FLM last year and then 4.19 as a pb at Dublin.My biggest problem seems to be getting enough energy into my system beforehand with the carboloading as I have food intolerances and can't eat bread,pasta or many other things.This is a real pain.I really want to beat 4hr one day but this to be a realistic aim as my next step up.I am really working at trying oats and brown rice to fuel myself.I thought maybe coming on this thread may give me the support I need to keep everything together.
    I used the cold baths last year and found that they really worked.Several family members (who already think I'm potty for doing marathons)thought I'd completely lost the plot.Its alright once you are in and keeping still its once the water splashes on movement that your breath goes again!
    Energy gels I have tried but due to the contents-have you read the ingredients list?-I ended up with stomach cramps.Jelly babies this year I think.
  • I found cold baths worked well too. I sit in there with a tshirt on and a hot drink in my hand for as long as it takes to drink it. My family too think I am completely insane.
    I found jelly babies had dire consequences last year I was glad I tried them before the marathon. Energy gels for me I 'm afraid even though they are foul!
  • I agree

    Energy gels taste like carp but they really do work for me, and I swear by cold baths haven't had any aches or pains since I started taking them.
  • Just back on the cold baths - when I got in, i found my feet got immediate cramp and went into spasm because they were so cold. it was only bearable when I made sure my feet were out of the water, but my calves still in
    Am going to try different gels each week until I find one which makes me not feel bad. What I am finding is drinking water and running is very difficult as if I drink more than one mouthful every 20mins or so I get a stitch. Am hoping as I do more long runs with a drink I am better able to stomach it
    Can you eat porrige Lorraine? It has transformed my morning runs as can eat a big bowl, then go for a run without feeling sick but have enough food in me to run without feeling weak
  • Newbie - I found my feet gave me the most pain in the cold bath. The rest of my legs were fine once immersed. It's something I can live with for the time being. You could consider wet-suit style boots if it is a problem.

    I think I'm quite lucky with water and gels in that they don't upset me when I'm running. I usually have about 3-5 mouthfuls of water every 20 mins without any problem. I have started taking warm water instead of cold, which is easier to swallow whilst running.

    For food - I usually have a couple of bananas about 90 mins before a long run & have found them to give me enough energy without making me feel bloated.
  • Newbie 1 - I'm completely with you on the drinking water, getting a stitch issue. In all my half marathons and training, I hardly take in anything for this reason and am fine. However, clearly this won't be an option for 4 hours running, so I'm going to have to experiment with energy drinks on training runs I think. I do usually have a gel at 8-9 miles on halves and have found these ok. So we'll see.

    Not feeling the most motivated today as it's the coldest day of the year and I'm cycling a few miles from my house to supposedly join my local running club. Brrrrr....

  • newbie and mad johnny, either this is a very strange coincidence or we're all just as mad as each other but I was all set to try the energy gel and cold bath today after a 14 mile run(!). I was persuaded against the energy gel by the friendly guy in the running shop who said it was a waste of time for ONLY 14 miles!!! He is a real proper runner who once did a marathon in 2:20 so I thought he must know what he's talking about (in retrospect I realise a 14 mile run for him probably took just over an hour whilst mine took a whopping 2 hours 26 minutes!). I'm definitely going to try it next time though, just to get used to it.

    As for the cold bath, well, this is how I know that I've gone mad! It was so freezing I had to put a bit of hot in! I had no idea how long to sit in it for or how deep it should be. In the end it nearly covered by thighs over but my calves were submerged and I sat for about 5 minutes splashing water about my legs and at one point putting the cold shower on them also. Is there some length of time which is ideal? Maybe I didn't suffer for long enough. I think my legs felt better after but will have to wait until tomorrow to see if it has worked as well for me as for you!!
  • Slowlegs - Somebody somewhere suggested 10 minutes in cold water (no ice). I covered all but the tops of my thighs. The time passes quicker if you've got a hot drink.

    Re: energy gels - it's probably true that they have a limited benefit for 14 miles, but maybe it's worth taking them so that you get used to them. It's better to find out now if you can take them rather than later.
  • Hello All, Just a bit of advice really to see if I'm on track with training. FLM05 will be my first full marathon (having done a few half's some years ago and a 1.52 half last September). My long run is up to 12.5 miles now on my own in around 2 hours taking it reasonably steady and building up a mile a week on the long run and doing 3/4 other runs per week ( 7 miles in 60 mins as an example last week).....as that is where I am now is 4.15 a reasonable target for April or am I being too ambitious ?? Any input advice appreciated !!
  • mad johnny - well, I didn't quite make 10 minutes (more like 5 ) but my legs are remarkably okay today. A little stiff in the thighs but nothing troubling whilst calves are absolutely fine! So it looks like lots of cold baths for me!
  • BG - your target isn't over-ambitious. It seems very similar to what others in this group are doing. My long run is only 10 miles at the moment.

    Slowlegs - I've just been out for my first run since Sunday (20 mins threshold run) and my legs were pain free & I had a lot more spring in my stride. It may be due to getting fitter, but I'm sure that cold bath has helped.
  • Hi BG. Your target is fine given your half time (much quicker than mine!!!)

    I'm a bit further on with long runs but thats mostly becasue I knew I'd only be able to do one every 2 weeks or so in the run up to FLM so I made sure I got a bit ahead. You've got loads of time so 12.5 miles is plenty.

    I did cold baths last year and they were very effective but I'm mostly a big girls blouse so wont be doing it again!

  • Please don't take offence but I think the lot of you are nutters! Of course, I fully understand the theory and if it works for you, do it....personally when I get in from a run in the cold like tonight, I do nothing more than eat and curl up in quilt on sofa with a nice hot cup of tea!!!!

    BG - you're ahead of me too. Am out 4-5 times a week but long run will only by 10/11 this weekend.
  • (although on the other hand BG you've got less than 3 weeks to get up to 18.5 miles for Stamford!)
  • Thanks for that - a bit of re-assurance !Blimey M - how did you know I was running at Stamford ??! Am also planning to do the Ashby 20 in March - are you entered for Stamford as well ??
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