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  • Fiona MFiona M ✭✭✭
    Hi Elizabeth and welcome! Well done on your Race For Life. That seems to be how a lot of women beginners started - me included.

    I'm no expert, I've just been picking things up off here and other running resources since I started, but what I have learned is that it is during the REST days that your body repairs itself, and therefore improves its condition. Not enough rest = no opportunity to improve. Although the "rest" can equal some other sport that doesn't put the same strain on the same muscles as running = "cross-training". Although I've never quite figured how cycling can be counted as cross-training when it obviously works your legs too - maybe in a different way? So your gym sessions could feasibly be in addition to your running OR instead of a rest day. The received wisdom (as received by me ;-)) seems to be to "listen to your body", especially as a beginner.

    Hope this makes sense.

    On the subject of smoothies, I overdid it last night because made loads and hubby didn't want any. So went off to have my early night with 10 tons of banana and blackberry smoothie sitting in a pile in my stomach. :-(
  • Elizabeth -- Me too, I was told what Fiona was told :) Listen to the body, it is the all-seeing oracle of fitness, no seriusly it will tell you when and what it is capable of. Of course you also have to be wary of the mind and it's deceptive "I don't want to do it" wily ways :)

    Fiona -- morning. Hope you feel better after smoothie-sitting-in-tummy. I did exactly the same thing with the smoothies yesterday morning - the mr refused to drink anything that wasn't coffee!! So I ended up drinking a whole 800mls or so to myself. Incidentally I wonder how ong the newly mixed smoothies last..? I know the PJ ones (in the botles) last for a few days.

    Forumites -- Well I'm feeling a bit better about last night's training debacle. I'm beginning to realise that my body is requiring 2 rest days between runs. If you all recall this happened last week after a particularly good run I did at the start of the week. Anyway, I cut and ran for home (so to speak) last night. I'm going to try and make it out again tonight but in the park instead and see what happens - no pressure.

    I don't know what it was yesterday I think combination of the heat, dehydration and not being able to concentrate properly (which as you all know by now is one of my main requirements when running).
  • Well done, Elizabeth! Stick around. You've made fantastic progress and I'm highly impressed that you've managed to stick to the schedules.

    As Fiona says - the training effect takes place during REST days. You run, your muscles suffer microscopic damage (no worse, we hope!), your body assumes you're going to be daft enough to run again so it repairs the muscles a bit stronger, then you run again a bit longer or harder...

    But you need those rest days. Don't be led astray by the real hard-cases who post a run every day and call 10 miles at marathon pace a rest day or a recovery run. For those of us who aren't at that stage, a rest day really should be rest - a little walk or a gentle swim is fine to get the blood flowing into your muscles, but no more than that.

    It would be worth adding a day of cross-training to your three days of running. A gym session can be very good cross-training as long as you don't spend it all on the treadmill! If you need to push yourself, make some of your runs a bit longer or faster - try getting to grips with the technical stuff about intervals and speedwork and hill reps and fartlek. It really IS relevant to you even as a relatively new runner.

    A final warning - don't feel inadequate when Cath is on one of her intensive gym crusades! :-) I don't know how she stayed upright last week.
  • Fiona G - How often do you do your TKD?

    As V-Rap was talking about cross-training, you could use the TKD as cross-training, it would be good for stretching, strength and flexibility and you could replace a running session or two with one or two TKD sessions.
  • I have ben running regularly since may and I try to run 4-5 times a week for about 40-50 minutes. I had hoped to do the london marathon next year but feel that I might be better to do a half marathon first. What do the more experienced runners think? I also feel that my initial progress has slowed down and though I no longer feel exhausted after a run, I don't feel that I could increase my time. is this normal or should I push myself to do more?
  • Fiona MFiona M ✭✭✭
    Hi Running Muppet

    It's twice a week, fairly strictly. But if I miss one or two (e.g. due to illness or being away on holiday) they have to be made up before they let you grade. So as I'm going to be away on hols in September, will miss 2 classes so am doing 3 classes a week for a bit to "bank" a few.

    And I am considering it cross-training, but I have a problem with how much "rest" it's actually giving my legs, as the warm-up is usually a good 10 minutes of jogging round the hall anyway, and then the technique itself is very leg-oriented (focuses on kicks). If the class focus is on stretching, then that's great. But sometimes it is more like circuit training or practicing different kicks up and down the hall for an hour. So if I try running earlier in the day when I have a class, and it turns out to be one of the hard-on-the-legs ones, I feel so sore afterwards.

    Also when I was just doing the TKD twice a week plus 2 runs, the running wasn't improving very much.

    What was your experience with the karate?
  • Carol, you could (injuries etc. permitting) have a reasonable pop at the London Marathon next year, but there would be no harm in trying to fit in a half-marathon and some shorter races as part of your training. Your current level of training could easily be adapted to allow you to aim for a good half-marathon performance towards the end of this year.

    Running for 40-50 minutes, as you've found, trains your body....to run for 40-50 minutes. Which, in itself, is a great achievement and you could be forgiven for staying at your present level. But the nature of running is always to want to do a bit more and do it a bit better. Instead of always setting out to do the same sort of run, start surprising your body. Get stuck into some intervals or hill reps - you may only be able to do 20 minutes at a time, but you'll benefit. Make one of your weekly runs just a little longer each time (55 minutes would be plenty for the next one). During your runs, challenge yourself to run faster between two lampposts, or up to the next corner, or until you've caught those cyclists who just catcalled you.

    Variety is the spice of running. Partake and enjoy!
  • Hi everyone,
    Thanks for all your encouraging replies -it's really great to be able to discuss things with others, and find out what people think. I've never tried fartlek etc. but my schedule has some in for next week, so if I survive I'll let you know how I get on!
    Have decided to have two rest days as I'm thinking of trying out a women's running club (Running Sisters) that meets near here on Saturday mornings. Croydon Harriers is fairly close to me but much too high-powered I suspect! Does anyone else run with a club? Can you give me any advice?
    Off to Crystal Palace tomorrow evening to see how it should be done!

  • Okay - so I'm bad. I haven't done any training or any running since last Monday and have even avoided the Sunday morning Yoga class!! I feel so shattered, the thought of running makes me feel tired just thinking about it. I know it's just because I'm stressed and not sleeping well but I'm worried about getting into a vicious circle --> won't go out because I'm tired = no running = become even more tired due to less exercise = not going out becaus eI'm tired!!!! I'm thinking of pulling out of the Corporate Cup... I've had a really crappy week training-wise this week and I just don't feel ready and it's going to be 2 weeks today (8th)!!!

    :o(
  • I went to the gym today - finally managed to feel up to it. I ran 5K in 37 mins. Not sure if this is good. I had three walking breaks and I also tried some nterval stuff (very shirt intervals) and was surprised to find that my usual pace felt a little too slow (9Km/hr) so I upped it to 10 and felt comfortable with that. I didn't do as much cardio wise and weights but I was happy to finish with having completed the distance. So I won't be pulling from the race now I know I can do it. I'm pleased I ran and went to the gym. I'm going to have 2 rest days though and only walk the dog. I'll go again on Thursday (all being well with Wednesday's results).
  • Okay so that is "intervals" and "short" ones at that - not "shirt" ones :o)
  • Well done Cath! Glad you're feeling a bit better. 5K in 37 minutes sounds fantastic to me! Hope everything goes well on Wednesday - do let us know how you get on.
  • Fiona MFiona M ✭✭✭
    Glad to hear you're not pulling out Cath. OF COURSE you'll do fine if you just don't put too much pressure on yourself. Remember: you ENJOY running....don't you?

    For what it's worth, I've taken a step back in training too and allowing my body more rest days so that I have at least SOME days that I don't ache everywhere! I'm sure my body appreciates me all the more for it and will therefore do more for me when I ask it!! :)
  • Good morning everyone!

    I just discovered this website last week and it's great to hear so much encouragement and tips! I'm hooked!

    I've just started running again (I dragged my way round the GNR last year), but class myself as a beginner (I think I jog at about 12 min mile).

    I've applied to do the London Marathon next year, and am telling all my friends so that I'll lose face if I back out! I'd been really against doing it, as I think it will take me about 6 hours (quite embarrassing!), but I've now decided that it would be great to be able to say I've done it (I just won't tell people how long it's taken me!!)

    So go for it anyone who's thinking for doing it (Carol!). It would be great to have support over the next 7.5 months!

    Kazza

  • Elizabeth & Fiona -- Thanks guys and I will let you know what happens tomorrow. Strange isn't it, one minute it seems eons away and the next it's right upon me :)

    Fiona -- I think I decided upon the two rest days after my experiences the last two weeks. After each good run I had really crappy runs and didn't even complete my target distances. So I decided that if my body demanded more rest then who am I to argue :) Anyway, hopefully I'll do the easy thing today and tomorrow with the dog walking and might even get the bike out! But the aim will be to rid the muscles of the lactic acid build up instead of trying to do anything meaningful. Hopefully that way, I'll be able to put in the same distance on Thursday and then Sunday too, after which I'll only have a week to get prepared.

    Kazza -- Welcome to the forums. There are loads of us here who are returning to running after a break. In my case it has been a long break but I seem to be doing okay but in other people's (like Running Muppet) it's only a short break and so we're all starting again somewhere :) Glad you like the forums - I've only been running I think 5 weeks now and these forums haven't half been a great source of motivation, encouragement and support!!
  • Cath - Good luck for tomorrow. I will be thinking of you.

    It's funny, my break from running seemed like a really long time and I can't believe how unfit I became but 18 months isn't really that long at all. Since I got back to regular 3 times a week running, it's been surprisingly quick to come back. I mean in the space of 3 months I've gone from running 11 or 12 minutes per mile and having to walk 4 times round a 4 mile flat road circuit to running an 8 mile x-country loop at what felt like an easy pace when I was doing between 8 and 8 and a half minutes per mile. When I first started it took me over a year to do that sort of improvement.

    When I was struggling and hurting, I couldn't imagine how I'd ever run along and felt like it was an easy pace at 8 and a half minutes per mile. It seemed completely unnatainable and a very long way away. Now I can hardly believe it's true that I'm doing that again - I feel fantastic.
  • Fiona G - sorry for the delay in response - I've not had a chance to look in on this thread for a few days. You asked about the karate and running...
    I was doing kyokushinkai which is full contact and it was pretty full-on. I started a few months after my second FLM as I felt stale with running and fancied a new challenge so when I started I was running around 12-15 miles a week on top of an hour and a half session of karate.

    Then I started twice a week and the sessions were very hard physically. Lots of circuit type stuff and pad work and hundreds and hundreds of sit ups and press-ups. I wanted to run the FLM again so from September, I started doing an easy run of around 4 miles on the days I did karate to build my mileage up. I think it helped that I had been used to marathon training (I used to average 30 miles a week, the most was a 50 mile week). So doing 20-25 miles with the karate on top was okay. I knew though that once I was into January that the karate would have to stop for 3 months until after the marathon because it would have just been too much. But then I got pregnant in January so that was that.

    I think the problem is combining speed training with something like karate or TKD because basically, the karate was like a speed session with lots of drills and shuttle runs and high intensity work followed by periods of recovery but it's not running specific so it doesn't get you faster in the way that reps or hill work does. I do miss karate though - it's good for the mind in a different way to running and I liked kicking and punching things.
  • Okay another update from yesterday -- I went to the gym and managed to run quite easily the 5K distance on the treadmill and I also managed to shave 40 seconds off Monday's time of 37 mins, down to 36 mins 20 seconds :) I was very pleased with this. It took me a while to get started but I didn't have any shin splints pain and I felt really strong and healthy despite the lumo and heaviness under my right arm.
  • Good morning everyone!

    I was a bit slack last week - but my excuse is that my best friend got married on Saturday, and so I had to meet up with her on a number of occasions, as she knew I would be happy for her to gush on about her big day!! (And it was a great day!)

    Can dancing for 3 hours count as a training session...?

    Hope to get back on track this week.

    Have a good week - I look forward to hearing about how you all get on!
  • wow! i've been run/walking for about a month, and have just discovered runners' world magazine, and this site. Amazing! it's so great to see everyone being so supportive- i've been a bit scared of other runners as they zoom past me, but maybe that was unnecessary?! And even though you're all talking to each other, it feelks like you're all encouraging me, too, which is great, all adds to the motivation. That only problem im having now is limitting myself to every other day- i want to get out there every day! i know it'd kill me though, so i'm trying to be sensible. well done with so much progress, cath, i hope it keeps going this well.
    Pamela
  • Hi Pamela, welcome aboard! It is a very friendly, supportive site. Some very useful info too. So are you completely new to running or are you a returner like many? (Not me - 7 months into it and still very much a beginner.
  • no, still an absolute beginner. i do have a go every couple of months, and have been doing for about 2 years, but always give up within a forntight through lack of motivation. but i've kept it going for a whole month this time, and am having no motivation probs at all! i'm loving it! something to do with finding runners world and corresponding website (ie here) and all the amazing friendly support therein. so thanks to all, for keeping me inspired!
  • Pamela,

    I can only agree with you re Runners world and website. I feel that I do have support to keep on at my running after discovering them both! I am running my first 10K in a few weeks and although I am nervous I am feeling confident that I can improve with the tips and training plans on this site and in the magazine!
  • Good luck with the race, moomoo, I'm sure you'll be fine! Just go out there and enjoy it!
    I've never really been in a race - other than the traditional fathers' day 4mile fun meander, i mean run, when i was small. PLease explain to me the addiction that everyone seems to have to racing - am i a little weird for not joining in, or are there many people who don't but just train for the love of running?
    Pamela x
  • Well the only real reason for doing the 10K as a 'race' was because my father-in-law-to-be??!! is a runner and he was doing it and i had just started toying with the idea of starting running again. I suppose its just a target but I used to do a lot or racing when I was running originally (at school no less) and I suppose its quite good to gauge yourself with others now and again. I also must admit after seeing Paula Radcliffe running in the Commonwealth and then the European I could feel the urge again to get out there and stretch those legs!!!!!!! If you are enjoying your running it doesn't matter if you are racing or not, everyone is different.
  • Pamela

    Welcome to running! I've been running semi-seriously for 10 years and have run thousands of miles in preparation for the 18 (soon to be 19) marathons I have run. You mention you used to give up for lack of motivation and also what is the addiction with racing?

    Well (sharp intake of breath!) the thing that motivates me after all this time is - 1. BECAUSE I CAN DO IT!!. I'm always humbled and in respect of those people with disabilities such as one leg or blind who manage to complete the London Marathon. I'm just so thankful that I'm able-bodied enough to finish in relatively fast times.

    2. FOR THE SENSE OF ACHIEVEMENT - Why do mountaineers climb mountains - because its there!. I get so nervous every time I 'toe the line' in a race, each one is completely different and to complete a Marathon really is a fantastic achievement for anyone.

    3. To travel - I've been all over the world racing and its such a great excuse to travel. Imagine going to one of the greatest cities in the world - New York - and finishing your holiday with one of the best Marathons in the world - FANTASTIC.

    4. And finally.. 'cos I love it.

    Hope you keep the motivation going through the winter - thats the real test!!. Why not enter a 10K and see how much you enjoy it.

    All the very best - ENJOY YOUR RUNNING!

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