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Longest tempo run for a 1/2 marathon?
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Yes your interval session looks to be essentially the same as the 6x1K session.
As for the tempo run, I'd either do 20/25 mins at half-marathon pace, or 40 mins at marathon pace. I tend to favour the second one as with a 15 mins warm up & warm down, it is just about the right length for me.
I know exactly what you mean... On the day, you often end up totally surprising yourself. I find that in training I don't come remotely close to the times I do in races. I went into London last year having only managed 10K at race pace, but on the day I was allright...
I note you say that you only did 10k at marathon pace before running a super marathon time. Surely this approach would not work for everyone, it obviously works for you! But that is why I say what works for one runner doesn't alway work for another. I wish I had the kind of talent that allowed me to do that, but I don't. From personal experience I have to know I can run at least 15 miles at marathon pace to have the confidence to attempt it for the whole distance.
In a few weeks the discussion will be about how to taper properly and should we bother.
Quite glad to read your contribution here as I was beginning to seriously wonder if I was doing something wrong.
I'm currently in training for my first marathon after having run my first half last October in Amsterdam in 1 hour 25 and 44 secs four months after starting running again after 13 yearsthe .
I never came close to running that speed in tempo runs never mind my long run during my training for the half. For my tempo runs now, they leave me very the tired but still able to get out the next day and I am doing them for generally 30 mins at a pace somewhere between half marathon and marathon. But the thought of trying to do my long run at that pace terrifies me.
I would generally be doing my tempo runs somewhere close to 6 min 30 miles whereas my long run will be somewhere nearer between 8 and 9 min miles. This worked well for my half but do you think this slow speed for my long run may cause me difficulties when moving up to marathon trainig?
Could well be as Mike and Laura said different things suit different people.
Simon
15M at marathon pace sounds well reasonable to me... I was also aiming for something like that, but didn't manage it on account of the heavy mileage I was doing... Mind my preparations included a number of races: 2 half-marathons at significantly faster that marathon pace, a 10 miler, an 8 miler, and a couple of cross-country races. So yes, I did also feel the need to practice my race pace, but tempo runs of 10K felt enough (I did not struggle hitting the right pace from the start, and ran even pace for pretty much the entire race)
I think the main point of the long runs is mainly time on your feet, so the pace at which you do them does not actually matter (in fact, I know some 67/68 half-marathon runners who do their long runs at exactly the same pace as you). But what you can try (and this is really hard work) is to finish your long runs by a 10K/40mins run at marathon pace to simulate the last 6 miles of the marathon.
It strikes me that citing ideal length of time for a tempo run will mean very different things when the min/mile pace is so varied. Say we're talking about 1/2 m training, 20 mins a year ago for me would mean around 1/6 of total expected running time, whereas for Nick it's 1/3. Anyway, I've done the wretched thing now and did feel like I'd run a race last night.
Looking at a few marathon schedules, most seem to recommend running up to 20 miles @ race pace as part of the training - not every time, but maybe once. Hal Higdon Intermediate II on the other hand suggests max 10 mile race paced runs (he has 3 of these on Sats, followed by 20 mile slow runs Suns) take my hat off to you Nick for running a marathon after only running your marathon pace for 10K beforehand. How did you know you would handle the pace on the day?
I didn't know. But I'd averaged 80 miles a week in training, and I had run two decent half-marathons (though my predicted time, according to the tables, was almost 4mins slower than what I actually ran on the day).
It was partly a risk to take (and that's always a bit of a silly thing to do on a marathon), and partly that I knew I would be totally worked up on the day, so I was expecting to perform better than usual.
If you did manage a 10M at your half-marathon pace, with a last mile (or K?) at 10K pace, then you can quite safely aim for a half-marathon at least 2 or 3mins faster than what you previously thought (and my guess is you'll even be faster than that)
I've never been able to train at any actual race pace, apart for on the track and only for long intervals but my races have always been so much better than my training times.
However one thing which is easier to train to is heart rate.
For example my PB 10k was done off an average HR of about 160 and my PB marathon of an average HR of 147. So if my schedule requires "race pace" then this is what I use.
For me the difference between actual race pace and HR race pace can be as much as 30 seconds per mile - for the same HR, although the hilly terrain where I train does account for some of the difference.
I've never tried training to race pace before so I guess this is a good experiment to see whether it makes much difference. The main reason being I was really disappointed at the GNR that I found it so hard to run to my target pace, I thought I had to practise it more.
As you know I'm another HRM user:
Last 1/2 m HR - 185
'pace' tempo runs - 177-181
yesterday's av: 181, but increased to 191 (on your suggestion, though I chickened out of doing 2 miles!) for the final mile to 10K effort .
With such a difference in your training hr and race hr equivalent paces Drew, it must be hard to predict your performance? And yet you always seem to know exactly what your target pace should be? Do you just make yourself run by your watch on the day or?
What happens, Drew, if, for example, you've had a really crap day at work & come home totally wound up? Can you really switch off that easily, & proceed with your usual training at your usual HR, when you get your shoes on & head out thru the door?
As has also been mentioned the long run is really about time on your feet not distance covered, this is what I did wrong in my training for the one marathon I have done so far. This will be different next time.
I am also wary of HRM's on race days for the same reasons as Mike S, or does it all settle down after a while during the race?
As regards tempo runs for HalfM I get up to around 10miles at taget pace (7min/miles)
and for marathons try running at target pace at least 1 week in 3 for 18miles+ (The other two weeks I run at 20-30s/mile slower or race Halfm-20miles.