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Aerobic, anaerobic, thresholds
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This is my very first post, and I am resuming this old thread as it is the closest thing to what I am looking for (also, I kinda have the feeling that newly registered users cannot initiate new threads, is this correct?). Please consider that English isn’t my native language while reading my words. Also, I’m quite the beginner at running, so I’m asking you to be forgiving in case I talk c**p, please.
I am a 39 years old guy trying to get back in running shape. I am a former smoker (a pack a day, 20+ years, quit April 2020) with pretty low running stamina level. However, I’m quite fit and on the muscle-ish side – 176 cm, 75 kgs, 65 resting bpm). In the last 2 years I have been running on and off with a very basic workframe: starting from 1 minute running, 2 minutes walking, 9 sets, up to 5 minutes running, 3 walking, 5 sets. That was the best I could do.
Spring 2020, just out of curiosity, I bought a heart monitor. It turned out that during my (very short) runs my heart would go up to 185 bpm: it’d hit that rate after just 3 minutes of light running (12-14 km/h) or so. That sparked fears that something may be wrong with me but no, after several medical examinations it came out that nothing actually is out of place. I even did a cardiopulmonary test, which set my anaerobic threshold (cycling) at a meager 115 bpm. Although I know running AnT is slightly higher than cycling AnT, that number was pretty devastating to me. Not that I thought to be a champion of course, but it felt pretty bad.
So I tried to get info online, and after watching a video by a Brit physiology university lecturer (which is pretty interesting but I won’t post it here, since I’m not entirely sure it is allowed by forum’s rules), I set up a training plan.
The reason why I am writing this post is that I don’t feel like I’m improving much, so I was wondering whether any of you may have any idea to help me. Right now my plan is as follows:
- I “run” 4 times a week, 1 hour each time, 4 hours total
- 80% of this time is aerobic activity, so I try to stay below 115 bpm. Basically it means I must stick to brisk walking.
- 10% of these 4 hours is steady state work, that is I try to run at or slightly above my AnT, so somewhere between 125 and 130. I can do so with some sort of marching, not really running though.
- Remaining 10% is dedicated to working above my AnT, anything above 140 will do. To achieve this I jog lightly for 2 minutes, at about 8-8.5 km/h tops, then walk for 1 minute, and I repeat this 8 times. This is the only way to keep my HR below 163 (which should be around 90% of my max). Even running so slowly, my HR steadily reaches 145-150 after 1 minute of running, and slowly creeps towards 160 after 2. Normally at the 5th or 6th set I do exceed 163.
- I also do strength training twice a week
I’ve been using this plan for about 12 weeks now, and I did note very small improvements: initially I would exceed 163 HR when running above my AnT maybe in the 3rd or 4th set; now it does still happen but possibly in the 5th or 6th. I am not entirely sure these gains are real though, and they may just be the result of me being slightly more energetic one day or tired another day: for example, it does happen to me to notice I’m getting better one day, just to realize after 2 weeks that I’m actually doing worse than before. Surely, I didn’t see any dramatic improvement, and the sensation that something is wrong with my training schedule starts to harass me.
One major improvement that did happen is the raising of my aerobic energy levels: I have more aerobic stamina when it comes to walking long distances, or climbing stairs, etc. In that scenarios I’m pretty much unstoppable, as long as I walk. But that doesn’t seem to apply to running, nor I noticed that I can jog faster before my breath becomes laboured, so I would assume my AnT isn't moving.
As you understand, my target is simply to be able to jog/run faster without fatiguing so quickly, so basically without crossing my AnT. I have absolutely no pro aims whatsoever, I just would like to enjoy light running in order to vent stress out. Right now the only way I can exercise without getting tired very quickly is brisk walking, which is quite frustrating (mostly because I don't feel I'm getting better).
Any thought is appreciated! I hope I didn’t breach any forum rule by continuing such an old thread. It did seem pretty relevant to my question.
Thank you all for reading and ciao from Italy. 😊
You're training at too low a MHR%. If your max is 185, then aerobic training heart rate for running would be 70-75% so 130bpm to 139bpm.
Did you have a maximum heart rate test?
But it's good that you've seen some improvements in your training, that will give you a good base to increase your training HR now.
> Cycling heart rates are not the same as running heart rates. Cycling is not weight bearing so a lower training HR.
>
> You're training at too low a MHR%.
Thank you very much for your kind reply! :-)
Yes, I understand my running AnT is likely some 10 bpm higher than my cycling AnT. I will try to train at a slightly higher pace.
However, even though I have no technical means to know my exact running AnT, my breathing starts becoming laboured at about 125-130 bpm. So at that pace I'm already probably starting to switch to a predominantly anaerobic way to produce energy, which leaves me guessing whether it is wise to routinely train at that HR (let alone a HR > 130 which I suppose would be seriously too much).
I didn't do a maximum heart rate test unfortunately.
When you start training to improve your aerobic system you should be looking for improvements initially at the lower heart rates. That is what you have discovered already, with your increased stamina walking long distances and climbing stairs, so that's good progress.
I don't think you should do any work at LT/AnT until you've made more progress at running at your aerobic heart rate.
Now your heart rate monitor, do you use a chest strap? Or is it an optical, works from the watch on your wrist?
The reason I ask is that optical heart rate monitors are not really suitable for training and can give erratic readings.
Perhaps your maximum heart rate is lower than the 185 you've seen and this is why 70% feels too fast for you.
> Lyer - if you didn't do a maximum heart rate test how did you calculate your AnT? I think what you are calling AnT is what we call LT here, Lactate Threshold.
Exactly! indeed, that it is. I use both the terms but I reckon there's not absolute agreement over them.
>
> When you start training to improve your aerobic system you should be looking for improvements initially at the lower heart rates. That is what you have discovered already, with your increased stamina walking long distances and climbing stairs, so that's good progress.
>
> I don't think you should do any work at LT/AnT until you've made more progress at running at your aerobic heart rate.
Right now I do only about 20% of my total training time at or above my LT, as per that phisiology professor video I mentioned (btw can I link it here? It's cool stuff).
The thing is: after 12 weeks, it seems like I have done close to zero progress when it comes to running. Yes, I have more stamina in clearly aerobic activities such as walking or stairs climbing, but I cannot really jog (let alone run) without my bpm going up and my breathing becoming laboured. So the question is: am I doing something wrong? Is it just that 12 weeks is not enough?!
>
> Now your heart rate monitor, do you use a chest strap? Or is it an optical, works from the watch on your wrist?
>
It's a good Polar chest strap: I used to have a cheap deacathlon one but I invested some money in this new one and it's supposed to be very accurate.
> Perhaps your maximum heart rate is lower than the 185 you've seen and this is why 70% feels too fast for you.
I don't really know! During the cardiopulmonary test my max HR was labelled as "normal" (I mean, they didn't quite calculate it but they suppose it is as per my age average).
The question comes back anyway: how do I improve? I mean, 12 weeks seems a decent amount of time to see at least something getting better :(
Here's some reading on base training, you'll need to translate!
What is “Base” Training? | McMillan Running
Good to hear you're using a chest strap so your HR data will be accurate. As long as you have no health problems I would suggest that you do a maximum heartrate test so you know your accurate MHR. I assume when you had your cardiopulmonary testing they didn't do a maximum heart rate test, you would know if they did as you would have been exhausted and probably felt nauseous. Doing a MHR test is not pleasant but it's brief, will only take a few minutes.
With an accurate MHR then you can calculate your aerobic training heartrate.
Meanwhile I would suggest you try running at 120bpm and see how you get on with that HR.