Question for Barnsleyrunner

Hi Barnsleyrunner, we haven’t spoken before but I’ve read many of your posts and value what you say. I refer to your comments about warming up before a 10K race (when I said I hadn't heard or seen anyone do a 2/3 mile warm up) and was wondering if I could ask you some questions that may help to improve my time which is currently 51.13. I haven’t done that many 10K ‘s and only warm up by jogging for about 5mins or so, doing about 400m.In addition I do make sure I stretch properly. If I was to increase this warm up to a mile, or mile and a half, what sort of improvement would I see in my time? I suppose one of the fears for not doing a warm as long as that, is the fear of not having enough in the tank for the race. So how long should my long run be, to do say a mile and half as a warm up, and still have enough left to race well. What else could I do to improve my endurance. As a matter of interest if you were training for a 10K how long would your long runs be?

Thanks

Stylish

Comments

  • "If I was to increase this warm up to a mile, or mile and a half, what sort of improvement would I see in my time?"

    Ooh, how long is a piece of string? My take on it is that you won't be preparing your body to work at 90-95% maximum heart rate by jogging at 70% for 5 mins. I like a progressive warm up ending in some strides to raise the HR and condition the legs to get into goal race pace straight away. You ever notice at the front of races the skinny whippets sprinting up and down the first 100m of the course before the gun goes? That's what they're doing.

    If you do a short jog warm up then bang straight into goal race pace, your legs accumulate lactic acid more quickly as your aerobic system is not up and running properly. So either...

    1. You don't start at goal race pace (which I've been guilty of in the past due to inadequate warm ups) or

    2. You do start at goal pace but slow later in the race as you started accumulating lactic acid too early.


    "I suppose one of the fears for not doing a warm as long as that, is the fear of not having enough in the tank for the race. So how long should my long run be, to do say a mile and half as a warm up, and still have enough left to race well".

    Most competitive club runners I know do a long run of anything from 90 mins to 2 hours, being about 12-16/17 miles, even if training for 10k. I don't know of any who say they warmed up for too long and tired towards the end of the race.


    "What else could I do to improve my endurance. As a matter of interest if you were training for a 10K how long would your long runs be?"

    Run doubles? Try and lengthen the time of your regular runs to at least 45 mins, preferably an hour.

    That's just my take on it - I hope other people have a view as well.

    I think it's a case of trying different things and seeing what works for you. I had a clubmate go ballistic last boxing day when he realised I was taking him on a 3 mile warm up before a 6 mile race. He wasn't so ballistic afterwards when he'd beaten all his rivals:-)
  • BR...I'd never thought of doing such a long warm up but now you have put it like that...it makes sense...

    not for a mara though ;-)
  • will try it out on Sat...Glasgow Uni 5m....
  • also very interested in this post as i regularly do a 6 miler for my short runs during week (12/14 miler at weeknd) and i do find 1st 3 miles a bit of a struggle...
  • coming back tho (its a loop) i'm cooking on gas!
  • This is the most useful advice I've read for ages - good question too. Maybe BR could set up a clinic say one day a week at a prescribed time and we can ask him to sort us out. Thanks very much - will use some of this advice.

    PP :)
  • Just don't ask advice on the cricket.
  • Or politics:-)
  • PP - there's people around far more experienced and better qualified than me to answer questions. If people post a question on the daily training thread there's dozens of them.
  • Its the clear way you explain it that makes the difference (its the teacher in you)- and the training threads seem to be for the serious people! Anyway, I will go there, with trepidation.....PP
  • BR...I am a Labour Councillor...does that mean you won't speak to me anymore?????
  • BR - Great advice, I'll try it on the 26th for my second ever 10k. I realise my warm up was grossly inadequate last year.

    DF - you're off my Xmas card list!
  • .....you know how popular politicians are!!! ;-)
  • Labour or New Labour?
  • well....I didn't say new.....
  • Like BR says, a bit of a fast run before the race helps prepare you for the real thing. I like to run at race pace for one minute about five minutes before the gun. This means I have enough time to get a good place, not have to rush, and yet still be prepared for what's about to happen.

    I do it before fast training sessions too. If I'm on the track, I like to do 300 m in about 57 - 60 seconds because this'll roughly equate to my pace for miles / 2ks or whatever I'm doing. Otherwise I find my first rep is too slow, all because my body wasn't ready for it.
  • Back to the topic... I have never persauded my wife to do more than about 4 minutes of warm up for a 10K... Whereas I fell happier doing about 10 minutes usually...

    I'm not sure I'll change her, but I might up mine a little more...

    djb
  • I don’t disagree with anything BR says, although 3 miles before a 6 mile race is probably overkill for us lesser mortals! For myself, 100m stride outs, after 1 mile warm up, before a race are essential. I would suggest a minimum of 3 to 4. The first one at a slow speed, with the last at about 90% of your max. effort. This will increase your heart rate and also help up your body temp.

    To increase your speed over 10K, you also need to look at trying some speed sessions. Once a week, either a tempo run at 10K pace or a Fartlek session. The tempo run should be at about 10k speed for 15 to 20 minutes. The Fartlek session could be over a current route that you run, where you have 1 to 2 minutes at speed and then 1 to 2 minutes very easy jog or walk. The speed portion should be faster than 10k pace at least at 5K level. If you only do your training runs at one pace you will not condition the body to run at a quicker pace.

    To also help with endurance you need strength and if like me you wouldn’t be seen dead near a gym (Yorkshire mentality, it costs money), the easiest way to improve leg strength is by running hills. This could be by running Hill Reps, or if you have a hilly route, pushing hard on the hills and easier on the Flat/downhills. If you live in Lincolnshire this may be a problem.

    As BR said it is all about finding what’s right for you and of course don’t try all the above at once, build up gradually.
  • Hi Guys and thanks BR for answering my questions and to the others for their imput.Everything that you say BR does make sense especially "You do start at goal pace but slow later in the race as you started accumulating lactic acid too early".I think thats what happend in my last race.

    What I think I will do from now on is at least a mile warm up and 4/5 strides of 100m each increasing in pace. I will also increase my long runs to a minimum of 12/13 miles.Recently I changed my running route and it now has a few more inclines
    whereas it was pretty flat before. I have also found a hill and will start doing some reps on it some.I think I need to start doing fartlek training too.

    Thanks everbody for their advice I have found it very useful.

    Stylish
  • I was that clubmate that went ballistic! The race is a 2lap 5.8M race (rounded up to 6M) with several really hard hills and we did a whole lap before the event! Needless to say I was livid as we trotted around and got back with about 3mins to spare before the start!

    I calmed down eventually and knocked about 2mins off my previous best for the course........

    BR still reminds me of this, and I agree now, so I guess I will do the same this year!
Sign In or Register to comment.