Shades Marathon Training

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  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Get up those hills,you know I'm always on at you about the value of them  ;)
    Took today as a rest day before work and used the roller on my legs instead as this is something else I always neglect.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - xpost.  I agree with everything you say re running clubs.

    Even though you feel your fastest runner isn't getting the coaching he needs he will still be getting lots of valuable advice from the older runners in the club.

    Of course one of the main reasons for joining a club is you can talk running all the time whereas your friends/workmates/family can only take so much running talk before giving you that 'look'
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian5 said:
    Shades-Get up those hills,you know I'm always on at you about the value of them  ;)
    Took today as a rest day before work and used the roller on my legs instead as this is something else I always neglect.

    Ha, ha

    Once you've developed a passion for ultras I'm going to get you down here to do the DD, Big G and I will show you what a hill is


  • Iain LoveIain Love ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    Shades - thankfully no major injuries,  a few cuts and bruises where I fell off a 9ft high platform but nothing broken.  The toughest part was the water because it was only about 12deg so very cold and we were in and out of it several times. And the waiting at congested obstacles. 
    The one thing that has upset me is that there are still people cheating.  The winner of the half did it in 1:36. We have found a pic of her at the 5mile mark which she reached in 1:10 and then completed the remaining 8 miles in 26 min.. Make me mad.. 
    Glad you enjoyed the burger casserole. 
    With my next marathon 2weeks away. How should I schedule my runs.. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Iain Love said:
    Shades - thankfully no major injuries,  a few cuts and bruises where I fell off a 9ft high platform but nothing broken.  The toughest part was the water because it was only about 12deg so very cold and we were in and out of it several times. And the waiting at congested obstacles. 
    The one thing that has upset me is that there are still people cheating.  The winner of the half did it in 1:36. We have found a pic of her at the 5mile mark which she reached in 1:10 and then completed the remaining 8 miles in 26 min.. Make me mad.. 
    Glad you enjoyed the burger casserole. 
    With my next marathon 2weeks away. How should I schedule my runs.. 

    Carefully after that obstacle course!  Maybe a 15 this weekend if you're feeling OK, then 10 the week before.   Maybe a tempo run each week just to get the legs going again.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Iain, surely that runner will get a DQ for something that blatant?!  Was it a genuine attempt at cheating or did she just have enough and cut the course to walk back?

    Ooooph!  10-mile at MP this morning.   :s  On a fairly flat course, but with a bit of wind, that was a tough run with legs hurting and breathing hard from about 6-miles.  I had the 10-mile route in mind and on a whim as I stepped out the door I decided to do it at MP as opposed to Long Run pace as I was feeling quite fresh after a rest day yesterday.  About the only good thing I can say about it is that I got back home about 20mins earlier than I would have done if I'd done it as a slow run.  Yesterday I was thinking about going for a PB at Leiden, but I think I may have to reconsider based on today, or at least still decide nearer the time.  

    I think for now I'll do the rest easy running up until Leiden, although I may do a hard effort at parkrun on the weekend if I fancy it.  Also, there is East Allington 10K (Claire's school) on Sunday, but I never race that one anyway.

    When I was out running, my new shoes (and free socks) turned up from Intersport.  All new, with tags, and no problems, so I'm pleased with that.  I would use again based on that service anyway.  I ordered 2pm on Monday and they turned up today, with free delivery.  Can't complain.
  • Iain LoveIain Love ✭✭✭
    Big_G - I'd like to think that it was a simple mistake but there are 4 participants that are all under 1:45 3 of which were female and the next person to cross the line was almost an hour later.  I think if I did it at my own pace considering all the variables,  I could of run it in 2:30ish. Im going to sign up and do the full one next year. 
  • mamafoxmamafox ✭✭✭
    Big G - That was a lovely write up about your club. It sounds great. I remember a couple of years ago when I did the Cardiff HM I saw someone in a Trotters top and just stopped myself at the last minute from bouncing over and saying I "knew" Big G. Not knowing your real name or anything I would have come across as a complete nutter.

    Cal - I'd definitely take a complete rest before Liverpool. You'd be giving yourself the best chance possible to toe the line in good shape and mentally you'd know your body had been given a good rest too. As Big G said, aim to enjoy it. You had a great PB at Manchester so don't need to prove anything to yourself. Treat is as a long run and valuable marathon experience under your belt!

    Shades - I would consider joining a club for the social side but not for training as it takes enough head space trying to fit training in as it is.. I also prefer running on my own. Saying that, speedwork would probably be better in a group. I slow down at the slightest chance on my own. It sounds like you've jumped straight in with your new club :) Are you completely recovered from your injury now do you think?

    After having not run for two days I thought todays "dress rehearsal" run (11k with 3k at MP) would be a walk in the park but sadly not. I managed the 3k at MP but my legs felt heavy and to cap it all my tendonitis started cramping and causing a pain to run up the side of my leg and glutes  :s This is a new one and I'm just praying it's a taper issue. It felt real enough though. Scratching round for something positive to say, my tooth felt a bit better. Think I'm just going to rest until Saturday then swallow a box of Nurofen and hope for the best.
  • mamafoxmamafox ✭✭✭
    Didn't see this page before I posted, not sure why! 

    Big G - 10 miles at MP is impressive. Makes a joke of my piddly 3km this morning! i always find MP well hard on training runs, in a race it feels much easier - apart from the last 10k  ;)

    Iain - If everyone saw that woman cheating then surely she is disqualified? Unbelievable.. unless she went the wrong way?

    Shades - Remind me never to do the DD. Never.
  • Iain LoveIain Love ✭✭✭
    Mamafox - unfortunately there is no way of proving either way.  I know how tough the course was and aside from the 13.1 miles there was about 40 min of swimming involved.  There is a point just after mile 6 that the course loops past the 12 mile point.  Unless it's a mistake,  I don't know why someone would pay £150 to enter and then cheat. 
    I must admit though, I was glad to see the finish line.
  • SlowkoalaSlowkoala ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the nice comments re the club records but they really are quite soft versus the men's ones and versus other clubs.

    Shades - our vest doesn't flatter ANYONE (including the oldies!) but the older members are very reluctant to change, probably because the vest reminds them of faster times! They are in the process of reviewing it, TBF (and I did submit ideas). It couldn't get any worse to be honnest.

    I think in our club you have to be an EA member to be eligible for the VLM draw, so I would think this encourages some runners to become members.

    Big G - interesting point re faster club runners and training. Our club sounds fairly similar to yours and I'm sure it's no coincidence that the 2 fastest ladies are actually 2nd claim members who are 1st claim members of athletic clubs. They very rarely, if ever compete for us now. Our fastest guy does pretty much all his training on his own. I've noticed that most new members recently are beginners and/or people who only want to run once or twice a week. I think this is fine, but it does mean that any new sessions have focussed on these runners (like couch to 5k) and the only track session becomes difficult to manage when you have really wide ranges of abilities.

    Hoping to do a track session tomorrow which should be interesting as I haven't been for over 6 months now. Eek!
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    SK, yeah it's an interesting one.  I take Shades point that faster runners can learn from older faster runners, but I'd imagine it would help them to be running in a fast environment overall.  No issue for the vast majority of the club, but for the super-quick possibly an issue.  I'm reminded of the Yorkshire set up where lots of athletes have come out of there, where some train together (and some outside the "official" UK training setup).

    Also, picking up on something Mowzer said, if I casually look over the "quick" records, some have stood for a long time.  I know there is talk that in "years gone by" there were faster runners around, but for example in terms of the men's records, some are 20+ years old which point to that being the case in our club anyway (SK, I'd imagine your Dad may have a view on this?)   In our club, the only runner who may break those is the young Trotter I've talked about - no one else is close.  I'm not saying it's a bad thing, as I think it's good that many more people are running now, but probably certain clubs attract the quicker runners, whereas possibly the Trotters do not.  Of course there is so much more to running than just quick times, so what I've said above isn't a complaint as such - just an observation.  

    I also think it's a shame where those quicker clubs are sometimes called "elitist" if they tend to have quicker runners; I don't see it that they're elitist just because of that.  Having said that, when I was looking for a club it was between Teignbridge Trotters and Torbay AC, and I went with Trotters at least partly because they seemed more up my street in terms of pace etc, but that's not the fault of Torbay.  Basically I suppose many runners take it seriously in my club, but like a night out as well :)  

    MF, fingers crossed your injury is nothing to worry about then!  Think of the wine!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    Iain - unfortunately those type of events are organised as profit making ventures and the organisers are less concerned about fair play and the results, but of course you must complain and get the results corrected.

    mamafox - no, I doubt I'm recovered from my injury yet, it hurt on Sunday from 11 miles onwards so hoping this weekend it'll come on later.    It doesn't hurt any other time so I can't tell!

    DD is an exquisite race over a beautiful course and I would recommend it to anyone.   Why on earth wouldn't you want to do it?

    I hope your run was just taper fever and all will be fine for Saturday.

    Big G - that's good service re your shoes and socks.

    Is the Yorkshire set up the group sponsored by NB.

    Nothing wrong with doing a 10 mile blast at time, remember how much harder it is to reach a race pace in training compared to when in a race.

    For your fastest runner, when he achieves his target times that he's aiming for he will generate a bit of interest so maybe he could get a kit sponsor and then find himself a coach just to help him.   If he gets a qualifying half marathon time for VLM he can approach UKA for advice on where to find a coach, even if it's just someone he sees every couple of months or so.

    As you have said clubs that have fast runners will always attract more fast runners as they want the competition and the training

    SK -well let's hope the vest does get changed.   Club kit that's not popular can put runners off.  My friend was invited to train with a new club but she declined as the vest is red and black and everyone looks like Dennis the Menace 


    Yes, in most clubs you have to have an EA licence to get a place in the club draw for VLM, it's UKA's way of trying to get more EA licence holders.

    Good luck going back to the track, what's your next race?

    Right must update the marathon list, Big G keeps entering all these marathons ;)
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Marathon List - please add/amend - sorry for any errors/omissions 

    13th March
    Enigma - Milton Keynes
    Big G - PB 3:54:17   

    2nd April
    Manchester
    Cal - PB 4:29:29
    Ian5 -  4:29
    Steve -  PB 3:10:15
    NickW2 - PB 3:24:59
    Taunton
    Shades DNS

    9th April
    Paris
    SuzSaville82 - PB 4:26
    Rotterdam
    Emmy 4:42
    Brighton
    Louey  - 4:24:45

    23rd April
    London
    Big G - 4:00:59
    Iain Love - 2:57:49
    Slowkoala - 3:12:43
    Southampton
    Jugula - 4:21

    29th April
    Plym Trail
    Big G - 4:29
    Shades - 5:01

    1st May
    Belfast
    Shades DNS

    7th May
    Great Welsh
    Shades - 4:44:12

    13th May
    Marathon de Blaye 
    mamafox - Goal - to win the wine

    14th May
    Hereford
    Shades

    21st May
    Worcester
    Shades
    Leiden
    Big G

    27th May
    Kent
    Shades
    Saturday Night
    Iain

    28th May
    Liverpool
    Cal
    Dorchester
    Shades

    3rd June
    Dartmoor Discovery
    Shades 

    11th June
    Yeovil Marathon
    Shades

    15th June
    Dorney Lake 6 Hour
    Shades

    18th June
    Enigma Clueless
    Big G

  • SlowkoalaSlowkoala ✭✭✭
    Big G - my dad joined a club v soon after starting running and soon trained with a group who were mostly all sub 2:50 marathon runners. They had two hard track sessions a week which he says really helped as they all worked together. They also seemed to race more regularly than most runners these days. I think in those days, most clubs had a greater number and proportion of faster runners, whereas these days the majority of club runners are much slower. Which in some ways is a good thing, as the sport is attracting more people.
  • SlowkoalaSlowkoala ✭✭✭
    Shades - I've entered the Vitality 10k at the end of the month as OH is running it.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    SK - in your Dad's day I don't think anyone understood why slower runners might want to run at all and it was only when New York and then London marathon came along that folk could see the appeal of the sport even for slower runners.    Some of the older races that had very tight time limits have since died but other races realised that if they allow slower runners the event becomes financially viable and supports the faster runners structure of races too.

    I have taken part in quite a few marathons/50km races that are actually trials for the England ultra team, by allowing slower runners they can afford to put the event on and it's a good trial to pick the teams for the European and World ultra races.


    I hope that 10km is not going to be a short course :'(
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    Shades, I'm not sure who the Yorkshire training group is sponsored by, but I think I'm right in saying that the Brownlees trained together but also out of the UK set up (I think they had a bit of a bust up a few years ago, but not sure if that was resolved).  Also, some women moved up to Leeds to train with them as well, as far as I remember....    Edited to add, that when I say "they had a bust up", I mean the Brownlees and the UK administrators had a bust up.  Something to do with UK administrators wanting the Brownlees to train elsewhere, but they wanted to stay in Yorkshire.

    Just went away to Google it and saw this from 2014, which talks about the Brownlees and three ladies who train together in Leeds.  http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/athletics/brownlees-and-training-group-eager-to-kick-games-off-in-style-1-6746464  
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    One of the running magazines used to feature a group of sponsored runners, sure it was NB.

    The Brownlees have enough clout to train where they want.   I think Alistair is training for an Ironman now.
  • mamafoxmamafox ✭✭✭
    Shades - That photo of a vertical hill wasn't much of an incentive to enter the DD to be honest  :o
  • lmao that pic isn't even anywhere near the steepest hill on the DD course ;) You want a pic of the eastward climb out of dartmeet for that, or better still a pic pointing DOWN what you just came up from erm where it eases off 2/3rds way up or so.

    Did 1000 foot of climb last night in 10-11 miles this was on the bike however :p its practice for weekend as its not exactly flat where parents live

    Shades - I er had dominos for dinner, its not that good i get better pizzas from the local ones and they cost far less. I did use a offer of 2 for £20 which saves 40% or more as most pizzas are £15-20 each. Did also get cookies. One of the pizzas is in fridge for tomorrow dont panic.

    Local one i can get 3 12 inch pizzas for same price as a single dominos one..... They also deliver inside 30 mins usually even if i request a set time 90 mins from ordering.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    mamafox said:
    Shades - That photo of a vertical hill wasn't much of an incentive to enter the DD to be honest  :o

    mamafox - Keith is right, that isn't actually one of the 'hills'.   That's the early part of the course which is mostly downhill, the camera angle shows the inline that the runners are due to run as steeper than it is.   The hill that Keith refers to is at the 10k point and it's very steep, only the top 10 runners can actually run it the rest of us mortals walk it.

    Keith - do you ever cook?   if you made Iain's pizza recipe that was on here I'm sure you would love it and a lot cheaper than buying them.

    Welcome back to Devon :)   Do you still have plans to run DD one day?

    Emmy - well FB post has gone well, thanks for your kind words.   However, I looked this morning and I think WW3 is on it's way, although the moderator keeps trying to keep them on topic. Not my fault o:) 

    Nice shower of rain this morning and a bit humid, short run for me today.   I've been so busy this week with the fall out from the 100MC stuff, joining new club and trying to get the ARC accounts done that I haven't been doing my exercises at home.  Naughty as my guru friend has released me from updates as he thinks I don't need his help now as he expects injury to gradually clear up, but I did promise I'd do my exercises every other day . :/  
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Keith, I like Domino's too, but don't have them often.  When I do get them, I just have them on a "two-for-Tuesday" deal, but when each slice is 250cals, I have to be careful.  I can very easily have a whole pizza on my own (is it 10 slices per pizza?), and then make a strong start on the second one   :|   I do like them, but I think they must be quite salty - I'm always thirsty the day after.  They are nice though!

    I'm off to a Greek restaurant tonight.  I do like Greek food.  It's all a bit complicated, but my friend who I'm going to Rome with has a new Vet Nurse job, and we went out the other week to celebrate that.  The meal tonight is for the person who is leaving the job (she is moving back to New Zealand), so the person leaving and the person starting will be at the same meal tonight, as the boss has invited them both (they know each other anyway).  It's really sad actually as the person leaving had a massive St Bernard dog who is 9 years old, called Paddy.  She thought long and hard about it, but decided she'd have to give him to someone who looks after St Bernards.  She would have transported him to NZ, but feared he wouldn't survive the trip as he's quite old for a dog of that size.  She's very upset about it, and she said it was by far the hardest part of the whole decision to go back.  :(  

    What with my run yesterday and other things I had going on that I walked to (including a pub visit with a mate last night, so not all good!), I did 20-miles yesterday.  Quite tired today, but it was a planned rest day in any case.  I had half an idea of going out on my bike, but I'm just going to rest.  Slight niggles and stiffness here and there, so hopefully a rest day and some stretches will help a bit.
  • mamafoxmamafox ✭✭✭
    Keith - That is horrifically expensive for a pizza!!

    Shades - I don't mind a couple of hills but those ones sound a bit extreme. The other thing which would probably put me off the DD is the variation in weather that you've all talked about. I always race in running vest and shorts and hate the idea of carrying any extra layers on me.

    Better keep up with those exercises then!

    My dad brought me over a copy of RW which I'm just getting round to reading. There was an article on Kathrune Switzer and a mention on her association which is linked to your womens marathon. At least I think it's the same one you've mentioned you're involved with.. coming up at the end of the month. What exactly are you doing.. marshalling or is it the logistics of putting it on you've been helping with?

    No running for me today. Just twtching about injuries etc and dithering about shoes to wear. I've got a fairly unused pair of Lunarglides but they haven't got much grip and they've forecast rain. My Structures are better in the wet but they're coming to the end of their life now. Probably go for the Lunarglides. Quite glad about the forecast though, was a bit worried about the heat. At the moment it's 21 degrees and rain.. three days after it's 28 degrees and sun  :s
  • Cal, yes take a complete rest before Liverpool, although not done it myself I've spectated there and the atmosphere is great so worth doing even if you just plod round ( I usually plod round anyway lol ) and thanks for the compliment re TP100 I'm just starting to feel normal now lol

    Iain Love - wow well done on that obstacle course, sounds gruelling

    Ian5 - yes seems alot of politics these days on running clubs oh how I wish it were different

    Shades wear your new club kit with price, I am a member of my local running club ( 100MC is second claim for me and always will be ) as they have been so supportive to me.  The weekend of TP100 they were tremendous, so many messages for me to keep me going and when I returned back to the club on our club night they had bought me a bouquet of flowers and made a special announcement congratulating me and telling me how proud they were of me.  I will never move clubs for this reason and it's why the 100MC will only ever be a second claim club
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-I thought you said it was big hills at DD  :D
    Speaking of which I had my hilly run today,same route as last sunday but came out quicker by 10 secs per mile so comfortably faster than my HM PB but on a lot hillier route than when I set the PB.
    Couple of heavier days now with 8 and 18 before my London trip when I highly doubt there will be any running involved.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - are Domino's really 250 calories a slice! :o   Maybe that's why they're so expensive, more calories to the £.   I've seen the prices, we get the leaflets through the door, seriously overpriced.

    What a shame about the St Bernard, but the right decision.   When I was a child we had a St Bernard that we looked after for the local hairdresser as she couldn't look after her properly, I think due to change of circumstances so Lady lived with us and slept all day, lovely natured dogs.

    You managed to squeeze in another long run then.

    mamafox - you can get variable weather in any race but with DD it's important just to be aware of the forecast.   Most would not run with layers, at the worst I would give a light jacket maybe to someone say at 20 miles and if I need it I'd pick it up.  You can send personal drinks/gels/food to the drink stations so no need to carry that either
    mamafox said:

    My dad brought me over a copy of RW which I'm just getting round to reading. There was an article on Kathrune Switzer and a mention on her association which is linked to your womens marathon. At least I think it's the same one you've mentioned you're involved with.. coming up at the end of the month. What exactly are you doing.. marshalling or is it the logistics of putting it on you've been helping with?

    I'm just looking after the money, so Treasurer duties.   Unfortunately I'm not even around on the day to help out as I'd already entered Dorchester marathon when they asked me to help out.    At least with a women's only race they are able to call in quite a few of the husbands and boyfriends to help on the day.

    You don't want 28 degrees so a little rain to keep the temperature  down would be welcome.   I've got a couple of pairs of shoes that aren't good in the wet, annoying.

    I'm not sure I'll be doing my exercises today, I've just survived the toughest Pilates class I've ever done and we did a lot of clams and then some exhausting hip mobility stuff.   Prior to that the ab session made my stomach hurt so much I thought I'd never want to eat again. :'(

    Jo - was the TP100 your first 100 miler?   Fantastic achievement and my ultimate goal to do 100 miles, not sure if I could do it though.
    Your running club sounds wonderful, I can understand you'd never want to leave them.

    Ian5 - there are a couple of big hills at DD and then the rest is undulating.   When RW event forum used to be really busy we had a big thread on DD one year.   In the race info we were told about the 4 major climbs in the race and famously after the race one forumite said...
    The race organiser told us about the hills at 6,13,20 & 31 miles but he forgot  to mention the hills at miles 1,2,3,5,7,8,9, etc etc, that post was published in RW mag.

    But remember there's lots of downhill too

    I think later in the year or next year you should find a hilly road race to do, you seem to be doing so well in training and a race with a couple of hills can be great fun.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yeah they're hugely calorific.  I just had a quick look on their site, and for a large Mighty Meaty (my personal fave, and not the worst in terms of calories, but not the best either) with what they call a "Double Decadent" crust, it's 828 calories per portion.  A portion is 3 slices, apparently, so 276 calories a slice.  If you go for a classic crust, it's "only" 621 calories for 3 slices.....but having only 3 slices is a challenge!
  • mowzermowzer ✭✭✭
    mamafox - ouch to the dentist  :s You would think that by now they could make it completely painless and stress free.

    My foot STILL aches. Didn't run yesterday (although had to stand for over 5 hrs at work) and haven't run today (yet) but today the whole foot really aches with twinges in various places  :'(. I have a GP appointment next week (for a prescription check - they phoned me, otherwise you can't get an appointment for 3/4 weeks!) so may mention it then - although I'm hoping it will be completely better by then.

    Iain - well done on surviving a horrific torture session  ;) Perhaps the organisers don't care about finish times as long as they get the entry fees.

    Shades - my info for Worcester has just arrived. I'm still debating whether or not to do it (due to a complete lack of run training over the past 2 months) and the cut-offs are making me even more hesitant. (5:30 for the full and 2:11 at 11mls) OK if I'm running reasonably well, but a source of stress if I'm having a bad day  :/
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-If I ever find a proper cure for my cramps then I might be happier doing a proper hilly race.The half I done in Jan had about 500ft of climb so not flat by my standards and I enjoyed that. 
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