Shades Marathon Training

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  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Well done on the pacing, SK. 

    Shades, good luck tomorrow too. 

    I've been relatively good today as I've had no beers, although the nice food is hard to resist!

    I did 3 miles this morning with the 2nd mile at MP, and that mile was hard work. I really don't know how tomorrow is going to go - it's the worst run in I've had in terms of food/drink, but hopefully I'll get around ok. I just feel heavy and ploddy. Weather looks to be okay though, so the aim is to enjoy it if possible... :-)
  • Just wanted some advice on a couple of things on marathon races as its new territory for me. Has anyone suffered calf cramps in a marathon ? Or can you advise how to prevent them happening.  It's quite common for me to have calf cramps very late on in my HM races. I do try to be sufficiently hydrated so not sure what causes it. I would hate this to be an issue in my first Full marathon Also advice please on how to use gels to best effect as I've only ever taken one in my last HM. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Nice pic, SK. But here are the real stars - Big G and Emmy before Leiden. ;-)


  • Iain LoveIain Love ✭✭✭
    Morning shadies.. 

    I did another of those local runs this morning.  The course was the same as last week but in the reverse direction.  A few more hills to contend with but I managed another 5k (18:37)and 10k (37:47) PB. Im glad to see progress albeit in shorter races. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    SK-Great pic and well done on the pacing,must be really tough pacing parkrun.
    Big G/Emmy-Another great pic,hope it went well.
    Chester Half for me today.I've been doing this new training for 5 weeks now so hoping to start seeing the benefits,previous PB was 1:44:12 and target for today was to set out at 1:43 and see how it went.
    Had a look at the route yesterday and noticed it is slightly uphill until 10k then downhill until 20k and a nasty hill at the end.
    7:51 was my target mile pace,first 5k were ok but very congested,chester has narrow streets and with 5,000 running and a steep hill very early on it made it tough to get into a rhythm,managed to get to 5k in 24:11 so quite happy,from 5k-10k it is gradually uphill but it felt good,I got to halfway about a minute ahead of plan,decided to take a little breather on the downhill but my pace increased to 7:36 p/m without really trying.My plan all along was to speed up at 10 miles if I had anything left and I got there feeling fine so pushed on,it felt really good overtaking lots of people.
    The next 3 miles were at 7:23 pace,which is only 30 secs slower than my 5k PB.
    The last hill hit me a little but not too badly,ended up crossing the line in 1:40:43 which is a massive 3:30 PB,unbelievable that it went so well.My only regret is that I didn't kick on earlier and try for 1:40 but I honestly didn't even consider that until the last couple of miles.
    Shades-I must say this new plan seems to be working so well so thank you very much for it,my legs are fine now,and I am looking forward to my 8 miler tomorrow.
    Forgot to add that at 10k my position was 813 and ended up in 664 so overtook 150 in the 2nd half

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Just a quick one whilst I'm waiting for the bus. 

    3:54:25 so I'm pleased another sub-4 but a teeny bit disappointed I wasn't 10secs quicker for a PB!

    But a lovely, scenic course and the weather was perfect for me. I'll write a bit more later. 
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Great job on the sub-4, Big G - even without the PB, that's a great performance on a warm day. And nice photo. :)
    And yay for your PB, Ian!

    Gorgeous day today - I so wanted to run but apparently my hamstring didn't much like the two 4 milers I did last week. :( I did Vinyasa yoga instead. Yeah, I'm a little worried about Liverpool. I really need to put that out of my head but it's hard.
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    I don't hate marathons!!  

    I only decided to run yesterday so just wanted to enjoy today which I did.  I kept my tradition of drinking beer on the way round. It was a bit hot for me. I'll write more later once Ive had something to eat. 

    Lovely to see Big G at the start. I wouldn't have done it without knowing you were there! 
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Well done, Emmy! :)

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    My picture didn't load.  Darn it. Attempt #2
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Cal: you've still got marathon training and distance in your legs. Trust your recovery and see how you get on. You've still got it
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    SK - great photo, Paula looks a little overwhelmed!

    John - quite a few of the guys on here have suffered from cramps in the latter stages of their half and full marathons, we've had long discussions about it and although dehydration can make them worse we have decided that it's lack of leg strength, usually the hamstrings so the guys have been doing some hamstring exercises to try and help and I think it's been working, I'll let the guys respond.
    Re gels, all apart from SIS ones need to be taken with water, maybe just one or two in a half marathon and maybe 4 in a marathon, take the first one before you need it as they take about 15 mins to hit.

    Big G - great result and so close to your PB is brilliant, so you haven't lost any fitness.

    Emmy - so glad you decided to take a last minute place in Leiden, do you need to sober up before we get the race details :D

    Ian5 - fabulous, I am really thrilled for you that is a huge PB, did you have any cramping in this race?   I expect you left your staff way behind ;)
    I'm so pleased that ultra plan is really working for you and it shows by your strength in the 2nd half
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    I got a lovely medal too today


    I didn't have a brilliant run 4:53:46, so a couple of minutes slower than last year, undulating 2 lap course.   But had a good day, several runners there who did Hereford last week and we were all slower this week, I didn't run too hard but was hoping for a better time.  Legs feel good, I think my favourite recovery a Lamb & Mint pie from Glos Services does the trick.    Saw mowzer on the towpath in the last mile but could really stop for a natter.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - please don't panic.   You know you can run comfortably to well over halfway so when/if it starts to get hard just ease up a bit enjoy the music and the event and you'll be fine.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Not a hint of cramping today and yes bragging rights are mine again,closest was 6 mins behind me.
    Been out for a nice walk this evening and legs already feeling good.
    Sorry your race didn't go as well as you wanted,maybe Hereford took more out with a few struggling. 
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Shades: well done On Worcester!  Lovely medal too! 

    I had a few ;-) 

    Race report: I knew Big G was planning to do this and saw that there was entry on the day. B had agreed to have a daddy day so it was easy for me to run without any stresses but there was a daycare there if needed. I met up with Big G and he looked calm and collected ahead of the day.  The sun was shining so it looked to be a hot day. 

    I had one simple aim: enjoy it. I had said to myself if I don't enjoy it, that I wouldn't do anymore marathons this year.  

    I started out easy at the back and chatting away to anyone I could make conversation with! The kms just passed by without too much notice and I just focused on keeping it easy and enjoying it. 

    At 11km the routes split and the half marathoners (who we started with)  went left and we went right. I picked up a marathon virgin for 10k then I met a lovely girl called Andrea who was running her second marathon.  She was so consistent it was incredible!  I just took it easy and ran steadily. I never felt like I was pushing it so had fun.  

    Beer #1: 24k. The group were astounded I wanted a sip of beer but cheered when I did.

    Beer #2: 32km. The best part of the race. There's a wonderful part of the course where you run through a village and they make a huge thing for the race.  It's an awesome thing to experience! I drank from a stein and they all loved it!!  

    Beer #3: 39k: borrowed a can from a supporter. He got a kiss for his trouble.  

    After 37k you join the main route again and it was the 10k runners coming in so spurred me on. I was doing a run/walk by now but was enjoying the support of the crowds.
    Beer 4: post race. They gave free beer out :-) 

    Leiden is one of my favourite races of all time. It's flat as a pancake,  beautiful scenery,  great support in the villages and we'll organised with good marshals throughout.  It's definitely one to add to the list if you want a good Dutch race. The cut off is 6hrs so very generous.  

    Aid stations were typical Dutch: water, energy drink and later on coke, banana and oranges. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Emmy - well done and your marathon mojo reinstated quite rightly .   It does sound like a lovely race.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Two memorable moments from my marathon today at Worcester, a woman taking a llama for a walk down the country lanes and at 17.5 miles heard my first cuckoo of the year, this was a section of the course which was like millionaire's row with beautiful and obviously very expensive houses.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Emmy-Good enjoyable report and some good medals on show.
    I didn't see any llama's at Chester but depending on what I'm doing next year I would definitely do it again.it had 6 water stations with toilets at everyone, where it wasn't 2 way running they had it on both sides of the road.decent support and well organised. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    John-I've suffered from cramp a lot,always hamstrings rather than calf though. Mine always seemed to happen when I changed form,so either lengthening or shortening my stride or suddenly changing speed.I've been doing a lot more hill work this time to strengthen them and reduce the chances,it worked well today but that may have been because I didn't slow at the end so didn't alter form at all.
    Gels-I prefer the hi5 isogels as I found sis too gooey and sickly but if you do a marathon and they supply them look into which ones and try them beforehand.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    Great to see you too, Emmy, and a great report too.  Glad you've got your mojo back.

    Ian, great PB by you.  Bodes well for your Ultra.

    John, I've suffered with cramping previously and, like you, I really don't think my issues are caused by fuelling/hydration.  As Shades said, I think it's leg strengthening that has helped me a bit.  My issue was in my hamstrings, so I've got a short program of stretches I've been doing for a few weeks and it seems to be helping a bit.

    Shades, well done for another marathon.  Not long until DD now.

    Cal, try not to worry about losing fitness.  I know it's hard, but the fitness will be there if you can get yourself to the start line.


    As for me, I am pleased with my time, but I know I could have gone quicker.  Have a look at these splits and you can see they were really consistent up to 30K.  Actually, there were really consistent up to 35K plus, but then I developed a couple of, let's say, "chaffing issues".  At the end, there was blood going down the inside of both legs, and my socks turned a funny colour too - the blood looked a lot worse than it was because I was wet from the sponges etc.  Even so the last 5K were pretty painful but even then I thought I was going to at least get a PB by a couple of minutes or so, but it was just too painful to run properly.  Never mind.


    You can see that the 10K split, Half split and 30K split are all very consistent (I don't work in min/km usually but if I'm reading it correctly, you can see it's 5:29, 5:28, 5:28....certainly on Strava the min/miles are consistent too).  But it went wrong in the last 5-7K or so.

    This is turning into a bit of a long post, but as always I've learned something about marathons again today.  I am usually pretty well prepared before a marathon, in terms of food, drink, sleep, etc.  But that all went out the window for this one, but yet I still did okay.  I surprised myself really - I was worried that I was going to have a disastrous run.  I've said it before but I just felt extremely ploddy, and a few of my recent runs haven't been great.   Even on the start line I was thinking it could be a bad day, but it ended up being pretty good really.  Don't get me wrong - I would always prefer to be prepared than not!

    But as Emmy said, the race itself was superb - organisation, atmosphere, course, spectators.  It was really good.  I think the only thing that would put me off saying that I'd 100% definitely do it again is if it was very windy, I think it would be tough as it was so exposed.

    Anyway, that's my 10th one ticked off and 3 in 5 weekends with London, Plym Trail and now Leiden.  And no injuries to speak off, so that's good too.
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Ian: that's a good sign to have well provisioned aid stations and plenty of loos! Was it hilly?  

    John: I only seem to get cramp if I've not hydrated sufficiently so I take on plenty of electrolytes to make sure I'm OK. I mix and match gels for whatever is in my box. Clif gels are a current fave (salted caramel, raspberry),  but I like high 5 too. Its a case of trial and error too. 
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Big G: great report on and consistency for you. Ouch for the chaffing.  How was the shower?  I've got a little under my arm but OK apart from that. 

    Well done on your streak!
  • Thanks for advice on cramp everyone. I agree in the comment about change of form and speed brining it on. I get it when i speed up for an attempt at a sprint finish at the end of HM races. I'm anticipating a sprint finish won't be happening on my first marathon so hopefully the cramps won't be an issue. But something I do need to stop neglecting is stretching. I just don't don't enough of it and many of the niggles i get could be irradiated if I took more time to stretch. I said to my wife earlier when huffing and puffing with the foam roller, I love the running but hate this stretching.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-That's great consistency for most of the race,hope the chafing areas recover well,great to have another sub 4 and 3 in 5 weeks is Shades/Mowzer territory  :)
    Emmy -No it was pretty flat,around 100mtrs of incline but most of that was on 2 decent hills,other than that just a steady uphill on the way out.
    Still buzzing over my race and disecting all my km splits,can't sleep as little bloody mix are playing a concert about half mile from me and it's pretty loud with all the screaming.
  • mowzermowzer ✭✭✭
    Lovely photos  :)

    Big G and Emmy - well done on Leiden marathon (cracking time again Big G)  :):) Should we all fuel on beer now?  ;)

    Ian - a big well done on your half pb. Consistent running  :)

    John - if you are going to use gels make sure you practise with the ones you will be using (SIS gels made me vomit  :s) I quite like Kendal Mint Cake (pre-broken and squares wrapped in foil) - it has peppermint in which is handy if you feel a bit queasy.

    Shades - well done on Worcester :) Great to see you running past. It was quite warm and humid today - I think a lot of runners were wilting a bit B) . We had one guy who almost collapsed on the half - I was marshalling just before the canal turn off, so less than half a mile to the finish. He needed the paramedics, but after about half an hour he had perked up a bit. One of the medics walked him to the end and he was able to run through the finish under his own steam. Marshalling is almost as tiring as running, but it was great to see the front runners for a change and to get so many smiles from the back markers  :)
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Those are some nice medals. Well done Shades!
    Big G - I saw a guy after Manchester who'd rubbed the inside of his thighs raw. Looked terrible. This is why I use tights and a lot of Vaseline!
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Ian: you poor thing!  I hope you managed some sleep?  I can't think of anything worse!  

    Mowser: well done for marshalling. It can be a thankless job. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - is Chester Half organised by the same folk that organise the marathon?  If so they are renowned for good race management.
    Hope you can catch up on your sleep tonight!  Hearing the music is OK it's the bloody fans that are unbearable :#

    Big G - great splits.  Ouch to the chafing, I was just eating my breakfast when I read that :'(   Better get yourself some Bodyglide (note only search on running retailer's website, I believe a Google search may bring up alternative results ;) ), much better than Vaseline.
    I think your few days in Holland with warmer weather would have helped you deal with any warmish running weather.
    No matter how well you prepare for a marathon you never know until well into the race how good your race will be, and poor preparation doesn't necessarily mean that the race will go badly, of course I'm not including the basic training that's been laid down in the months beforehand.

    No you're into double figures on your marathon count, there's no hope for you :D

    Yes, one more marathon for me on Sunday and then it's DD.   I was due to do a double this weekend for Plodding Hippo's 500th marathon but I've discovered that she's already run her 500th a couple of weeks ago.   Annoying as for the last 10 months I've been asking her as I wanted to run her 500th with her, I'm a purist and expected her to celebrate her 500th on the actual event but she's not so I've cancelled my trip.   Thankfully it will save me the 7 hour drive to Kent on a BH Friday.

    John - you need to find a couple of calf strengthening exercises, not too much, but just a little 5 minute routine that you can do daily and that should help, but you do need to keep on doing them every day.

    mowzer - lovely to see you albeit briefly.   Well done on marshalling.   We noticed a lot of novices in the half, some so overdressed and seemed to be suffering unnecessarily, I assume from lack of training.   I meant to walk back to see you but MH and I lay on the AstroTurf and put our legs up on the fence when we finished and I didn't have the energy to get up again, sorry!

    Legs feel OK today, 5 mile recovery run done. :)  
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