Shades Marathon Training

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  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Shades: just to confirm: hippo has already done her 500? I thought it was coming up, too? 

    I'm just going out for my recovery run before it gets too hot. I'm not sure recovery run was meant with 2 dogs and a buggy ;)
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Emmy - yes, she did it at her 100 miler and she ran Exeter marathon yesterday too.   All her previous landmarks have been run on the actual celebration event so I'm not sure why she didn't do that this time.   I've wasted 2 hotel rooms and a race entry fee.   I know there's a few in the 100MC that put a couple of extra in hand, one friend of mine that did it I was really shocked as I think that's weak and spineless way to do it.   The whole excitement of the occasion is that the event is the actual.   I was talking to Danny yesterday, he's doing his 700th later this year, he's a purist too and always does them on the actual event.

    Good luck with the recovery run.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Emmy, shower yesterday was very painful, but a bit better today. I won't be running today though, because of it. But I'll be doing some walking later on. 

    That medal we got also glows in the dark. 

    The bananas on the course were very welcome too. I think I probably had 3 bananas whilst out there, but I didn't like the energy drink. 

    I'm not doing the club's race report this week, but I've sent something in about Leiden to the person standing in for me. 

    Going back to Bruges today and staying the night, before travelling back to the UK tomorrow. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Yes it s the same 2 lads who organise both,from what I can see it is the only races they organise along with a metric marathon on the same day as the full.
    Nice 8 mile run this morning,calves a little sore at the start but no more than after a long run and the run went good,another sign the ultra training is doing great.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - hope you can walk comfortably :'(

    I'm not that keen on bananas during a race but at Longford marathon a lady was handing out banana pieces that she'd dipped in lemon juice and they were delicious.

    Ian - I thought it might be the 2 same guys, you're doing Chester marathon aren't you?

    To comfortably do an 8 mile run after a PB half marathon just shows you how your endurance is improving.   What does your new PB calculate your possible marathon time? :)

    I would suggest that at the moment we keep your training paces the same while you're training for your ultra and then we can up them for your next spell of marathon  training, if you're OK with that?
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Yes I am doing Chester for my Autumn race,it goes a different route but looks similar profile.
    RW gives me a predictor of 3:30 but that's always too optimistic so think 3:45 would be better,but maybe it's always optimistic because I've never put the volume of miles in to justify it?
    I'm happy to keep the paces as they are for this spell as the ultra is about finishing rather than a time,then that gives me another 12 weeks for Chester to get more marathon specific training in.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Good, we'll keep paces the same, they're doing the job so nothing to be gained by training faster.

    We had a Shadies meet up at Chester in 2014, I think there was 4 or 5 of us running.  I did a season's best and everyone else did a PB, I have a tendency to forget hills until I have to run them again but from memory I can only remember an uphill stretch in the city on the way out and maybe on the way back, the rest of it was flat (to me).  It's definitely a fast course.

    3:30....ooh :)
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    It doesn't look like there's much in the way of hills,what there are are mainly in the 2nd half which isn't ideal but still looks a good profile,and still 5 months away so lots of miles up my Everest route yet.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    You'll be a mountain goat by then :D
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Quick question on my plan,would it ever be worth me running twice on the same day to increase mileage,sometimes I have a day off then can't run,because of work, for a couple of days so then could I do my scheduled run in the morning and a shorter one in the evening or is it not worth it?
    PS I worked out my race yesterday was my first true negative split bvy around 2 minutes  o:)
  • mowzermowzer ✭✭✭
    Shades - yes there were a few who were struggling yesterday - both in the half and the full, and some didn't look like they had started running too long ago. But the ones at the back were full of smiles (grimaces?), were able to exchange a few words and were really grateful that the marshals had stayed out. Even if they were slow and very tired, they still had the guts to get out there and the determination to finish :) . One thing that really stood out in the front runners (both the half and the full winners won by quite a big margin) was how good they looked - running was easy and smooth, body upright, and they showed no signs of exhaustion or of even being slightly out of puff. Once I start back running I think I need to get my basic fitness up to what it was a few years ago :/

    I love Danny  :) . A couple of years ago we did Pewsey Downsaround. It was teaming down with rain and cold too. I wore tights and a rainjacket and carried my numerous 'just in case essentials' in a backpack. Danny just wore shorts and a cotton t-shirt - and it was him who kept me going  ;)

    Big G - ouch to the chaffing :s . I find Bodyglide really good and I think there is something walkers use called Stride. And if you do get chaffing you can use Bodyglide before getting in the shower to save you jumping through the roof  ;) There were a couple of guys yesterday who had 2 bright red circles on the front of their vests  :'(
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - doing doubles is another way to keep the mileage up and also can help when you know you can't maybe get as long a run in as you were hoping for.   So yes, go ahead, but don't overdo it.

    that's a big negative split for a half marathon :)

    mowzer - well you've had a long spell of injury with that foot and before that you were sort of favouring very long events that needed a lot of walking either because of terrain or distance.   But we all know that a race is so much more enjoyable and comfortable if we run within ourselves and after a good spell of training.  

    I'm enjoying my marathons at the moment after a good winter's training but I've lost quite a bit of fitness due to my injury as I need to keep my training mileage up and I wasn't able to throughout April.   I now have Dorchester this weekend and then another attempt at DD which I think is going to be tough for me to make the marathon cut off.   I've left the whole of July free for another block of training.

    That's a great tip about the Bodyglide, never though about it protecting an ouch :'(  moment in the shower.  

    It makes feel a bit squeamish when I see a guy with blood on their running vests like that. :#
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Mowzer-Very well done on marshalling for so long yesterday,I made a point of saying thanks or waving to as many marshall's as I could yesterday,a lot easier when running well though.
    Shade- I was thinking of the weeks I can't fit the optional run in so would only be every 2 or 3 weeks at most as when I train for the next marathon I'd like to keep this mileage up as I'm really enjoying it.
    Ouch to the guys with red circles,I'm lucky and never suffered with it yet,but do smear sudocrem before my long runs to play safe.
  • Iain LoveIain Love ✭✭✭
    Afternoon folks. Hope you're all well and fighting fit. Some great performances and medals over the weekend. Strangely, my legs are quite stiff today but I can't works out if it's because of my 10k yesterday or the hour I spent removing bramble bushes from our garden. A little anxious about my marathon over the weekend because I haven't run anything more than 13 miles since London. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian5 - that's fine, you can rejig the runs/mileage to suit you.

    Good to hear you enjoy the higher mileage and you should easily get a marathon PB from it without introducing any additional speedwork :)

    Iain - I expect your aches are from the wrestling with the undergrowth, I seem to remember you doing the same thing last year with the bramble bushes!

    Now don't you start worrying about your marathon this weekend, we've been trying to calm Cal who is also expressing the same concerns as she's got Liverpool on Sunday and not been able to run much lately.   You will be fine,  just start out at a conservative pace.

    Much warmer this morning, lovely and sunny, no gloves today B)
  • Iain LoveIain Love ✭✭✭
    Shades - last year i just cut the over grown brambles back,  this year I decided to rip them out by the roots.
    Thankfully this marathon isn't one where I'm worried about time. Im doing it for the cool medal and because I can.. End of July is the important one where having a quick time matters. 
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Iain - yeah, I've had 8 weeks since Manchester, with a half marathon four weeks ago and not much since, thanks to my damnable hamstring.

    Anyway, I did go for a run today - standard 4 miles, although I did walk a bit to warm up (normally I start running as soon as I get outside, or at least, as soon as my Garmin finds the satellite). My hammy problem is a bit odd, really - I know it's the tendon that's the problem, but I actually feel it lower down in my hamstring and/or the side of my butt. I'm not sure if this is referred pain or whether the muscles are tightening up to protect the tendon. I'm making it sound worse than it actually feels, but I am super conscious of it. I've certainly run with worse Achilles discomfort, but as that's confined to a much smaller area, it's a lot easier to ignore.

    Really warm out there (15 degrees) so dug out a sleeveless top (I'm strongly considering shorts for Liverpool - they aren't compression, but I'm going to have my masseur tape me up again on Friday evening).
    A couple of easy miles to start with (10:48/10:51) and then pushed to around MP (9:49/9:51) for the last two. My average for Manchester was actually 10:14, but that was with a strong positive split. I think I averaged around 9:55 for the first half.
    My running felt decent, hamstring aside, so I was quite happy with it.
    More excitingly for Shades, I've found something I can eat before a run - sweetened rice cakes. Not exactly filling, but it's something to take the edge of my hunger in Liverpool. I ate them around 5:30, then ran at 8, and didn't even notice anything untoward. I will just have to make sure I get my protein fix after the race.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Iain - I do remember you mentioning the brambles last year so I think you must have been having a few aches and pains after that!   Well hopefully now you've removed the roots they won't come back, although they can be resilient.

    Cal - that's a good run today for you.  You know how hard it is to do race pace in training so your split times today are very good.

    Great news that you've found something that you can tolerate before running.   Maybe your protein rich normal breakfast just takes too long to digest.   Most runners will opt for high carb food before a race, even I ditch the eggs and eat carbs before a race.   Rice cakes are good as you can nibble on those easily (no preparation required) and they have carbs and are easily digested.  :)
  • NickW2NickW2 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    5k easy for me last night. Had hardly felt my knee for a few days barring the odd twinge, but it complained a bit within a few hundred metres of running. After around 1k or so of hurting it eased off though to the point that I hardly noticed it. I did a couple of strides to see how it felt at pace in anticipation of doing a mile race tomorrow. It hurt a little but better than previous test strides and has definitely been improving which is a good sign.

    On balance I think it may slow me down a little tomorrow but it will (hopefully) all be over in under 6 minutes so it shouldn't be too bad; I'll make sure I warm up for at least 10 mins as well. I appreciate it may set my recovery back a bit, but I don't have any other target races in the next couple of months, so if I need to properly rest it then I will have the opportunity to.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Nick - I don't think you can be damaging that knee too much with your running otherwise I think it would give you more pain when you stop.

    Good luck for that mile race tomorrow

    Off to find the marathon list for weekly update
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Weekly update of the marathon list...

    Marathon List - please add/amend - sorry for any errors/omissions 

    13th March
    Enigma - Milton Keynes
    Big G - PB 3:54:17   

    2nd April
    Manchester
    Cal - PB 4:29:29
    Ian5 -  4:29
    Steve -  PB 3:10:15
    NickW2 - PB 3:24:59
    Taunton
    Shades DNS

    9th April
    Paris
    SuzSaville82 - PB 4:26
    Rotterdam
    Emmy 4:42
    Brighton
    Louey  - 4:24:45

    23rd April
    London
    Big G - 4:00:59
    Iain Love - 2:57:49
    Slowkoala - 3:12:43
    Southampton
    Jugula - 4:21

    29th April
    Plym Trail
    Big G - 4:29
    Shades - 5:01

    1st May
    Belfast
    Shades DNS

    7th May
    Great Welsh
    Shades - 4:44:12

    13th May
    Marathon de Blaye 
    mamafox - 3:40 - 3rd place and she did win the wine

    14th May
    Hereford
    Shades - 4:45:59

    21st May
    Worcester
    Shades - 4:53:46
    Leiden
    Big G - 3:54:25
    Emmy - 4:42:59 (including beer stops)

    27th May
    Saturday Night
    Iain

    28th May
    Liverpool
    Cal
    Dorchester
    Shades

    3rd June
    Dartmoor Discovery
    Shades 

    11th June
    Yeovil Marathon
    Shades

    15th June
    Dorney Lake 6 Hour
    Shades

    18th June
    Enigma Clueless
    Big G
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Shades - knowing you run a lot of marathons (just looking at that schedule!) - how do you manage to do it without breaking?
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Cal: if I may also answer your question? You don't train for the longer distances.  Everything you do between races is shorter stuff and a lot more at recovery pace. I used to regularly do 2-3 a weekend and loved it. I was happier to run a marathon with friends and other people than 20miles on my own. At my peak I could run 10k a day and then 2 at the weekend without any ill effects. 

    I'd definitely be bringing out the shorts this weekend. It'll be a scorcher I think.  
  • NickW2NickW2 ✭✭✭
    Catching up...

    Big G - that sounds a great zoo tour, love the pic of the elephant. Well done on the marathon, hope the chafing is improving. I very rarely have issues in that area, though was a bit sore there after Manchester. I do get quite bad nipple chafing though if I don't take preventative measures which I normally don't notice at the time but certainly do in the shower after!

    SK - well done on the pacing at parkrun. I thought about volunteering to do it this week but then realised I might not make it (and in the end didn't) so didn't want to risk letting people down. I've noticed a few times the pacing is a bit hit and miss, eg I remember a while back I ran it with my wife and she was really pleased to beat the 30 min pacer by 10 secs or so but he ran about 30:30. The next time I paced her to 29:5x ;) That's a great run by your 10yo too. Looks like you guys had fun at night of the 10000 PBs.

    John - sounds like a leg strength issue or lack of salts/electrolytes (more likely if you sweat a lot). I would look up some calf strengthening exercises. One other thing as you mentioned you get it when you try to sprint finish, I think adrenaline can cause cramp, eg if you get excited that you are about to finish then you might cramp up. Anecdotally I recall getting cramp while doing a sprint finish in my first marathon, but managed to relax and it went away (even though I continued sprinting).

    Iain - nice 10k, that's a fair chunk off your previous one. Good luck for your marathon this weekend.

    Ian - congrats on the new half PB, great training from you as well. You seem to be coping really well with the higher mileage. Sounds like it was a good event as well.

    Emmy - nice beery marathon. Sounds like you enjoyed it. The medal looks quite nice.

    Shades - well done at Worcester, nice medal and you didn't even mention your injury so hoping that means it's all gone :) Good luck in your next one this weekend.

    mowser - nice marshalling

    Cal - good luck at Liverpool, hope the injury behaves itself.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - as per what Emmy has already posted.   Also as time goes on you start to recover more quickly and a lot of that is a change of attitude, see what Big G has achieved this year already in just a few weeks.   Sometimes a race will feel tough, and you might be disappointed with your time but that happens anyway in racing , you just get on with it.

    The biggest mistake that some marathon runners make is that they run a marathon and then more or less do nothing and all that fitness that they've worked for they let go.   Yes, of course they can get that fitness back at a later time but unless they are injured that break will not have done them any good if they want to progress with their running.   The runners that I see every weekend at a marathon are the ones least likely to break.

    I don't do as many as mowzer does or many others in the 100MC (or not in the 100MC ;) )

    Nick - at Worcester I had a twinge at 5 miles, 30 seconds later it had gone, not worth a mention :)
  • Hi I am preparing to start my 16 week training plan you kindly sent to me thanks Shades (ready for my first  Marathon in Birmingham in October). Can you offer any advice on hill training please. I live in quite a hilly area so its hard to avoid them, but would prefer to keep my long runs as flat as possible particularly when I am running the 20 milers (new territory for me, 15 miles is my max to day, and that was a couple of years ago).
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    John - don't avoid the hills, they will help strengthen your calf muscles.   Use a flat route for your tempo runs but everything else should be run on undulating routes, if you run out and back routes you'll get to run down any hills you've run up.   Slow your pace on the uphills and speed up a little on the downhills, change of cadence is good for the legs.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Cal-Sounding more promising for next weekend now  :)
    Nick-Good luck with your mile race,I find 5k races tough so a mile would be a massive challenge.
    John-I totally agree with Shades on the hills,even if you go really slow up them the long term gains will be immense for you,take this from a guy who avoided them like the plague.
    6 mile run this afternoon,I could have went this morning but knew it was going to heat up so went when it was hotter incase it's hot for my race,glad I did as it's made me remember how tough it can be to run in heat,esp as i've not been taking water for runs less than 10 miles but that will change after today.
    Shades-I am down for 20,18 and 24 the next 3 long runs,as I missed my 21 miler would it be better to do 20,22,24 then taper?
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Jon - as someone who lives where there are no hills; i'd say that you need to train on them. They're so helpful and you can always use them as an exploration!

    Ian - Well done on your 6miler! You were brave to go out in the afternoon!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - you're definitely converted when it comes to the hills, I'll have you signing up for DD in a year or so :)
    Good idea to get a run in when it's hot.

    Entirely up to you if you change the mileage of your long runs, but if after the 20 miler you are feeling tired then step back to 18 the next week as the original plan.

    Emmy - I expect it's very hot where you are now.  One of our club is doing Luxembourg marathon this weekend forecast is 27/28 degrees but it is an evening race, have you done Luxembourg?

    It turned very warm here yesterday and was still warm when I went for my run this morning, first training run in vest and first with lots of sweat.   Had a great run though, shorter hilly route today, just over 6 miles, 550 feet of climb :)
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