Shades Marathon Training

Ian5

Jelly-Have a nice relaxing day.
Shades- They're really my paces....wow,think I'll start at the lower end of those long runs :-) 
Just looked at my wava,yesterday comes out at 71.44% ,my 10k is 73.86 and 5k 71.48 so all similar,but my full is 63% so drops quite a bit.

Big_G

Enjoy your week off, Jelly  

Ian, something to work there then, for your marathon WAVA.

Shades, good that you enjoyed your first run back.

I watched the NYC marathon, and enjoyed it.  Some of the coverage was a bit crap though.  Eurosport take their feed from the US channel and in the last mile or two, for some reason, they were showing live footage of the women's race leader, alongside recorded footage of the same lady from about 2 miles previously.  Really odd.  I was also reading LetsRun at the same time, and the Americans were really complaining about all the adverts they had, although it wasn't too bad in the Eurosport coverage.

No running for me today, but I need to go along to the club as I need to get the club's laptop back, which was needed for the results processing at yesterday's race.

1SteveMac

MF - Scary about the attempted break in! So so sad to hear about your dog too
Big G - Brilliant weekend for you, that is superb running!!
Ian - As said on Strava, brilliant running. What a year you have had with more to come next year!! Your marathon time will definately improve again next year. 15 minutes improvement in your HM time really is amazing!!

Also watched the NYC marathon, was nice to see Shalane Flanagan win. The end of the mens race was exciting too, Kamworor looked to have got it in the bag then started fading while Kipsang was getting stronger, it he would have had a bit more road he would have caught him...so close, but a decisive break by Kamworor to get the gap in the first place.

Cal Jones

mamafox - oh ow! I used to ride as a kid and had my foot stepped on a few times. Half a tonne of horse on your foot is not much fun.

Have fun, Jelly!

Shades - don't know about yoga, but I'm wondering if a possible culprit is one of the glute exercises I do. I'm going to drop it for a while and see if there's an improvement.
Funnily enough, my back calmed down towards the end of the afternoon. No reason for it to do so, but it did. And it wasn't so bad this morning so I decided to risk a run. Lovely clear sunny day too, although cold enough that I had to break out the gloves, hat and jacket! (I may have overdone it - I got a bit hot after a mile and a half, but I'm probably better off keeping my injured bits and pieces warm). My back grumbled the whole way and I had to concentrate on pulling my core in, but the hip wasn't too bad. It didn't do that thing of getting progressively more sore during the run so I just kept on going. Right calf was getting a bit iffy towards the end but it's probably just not used to running at the moment.
Anyway, I got 4 miles done. I went very easy to start (11 min/mi) and the middle two were in the 10:30s. Last mile was a bit quicker (10:11) because I wanted to get back for breakfast (and also before I broke anything!).
I finished by walking around the block and then spent a good 10 minutes stretching stuff out.
I have yoga at 12 - will do my best to take it easy.

E mmy

Jelly - Have a great week off!
Cal - Great news that you managed a run without any hurting! Good idea to do the stretching.

I managed 10K this morning and although it was a bit cold, it was good. I've had a weird pain in my big toe (that's black) after a few km. I've tried 'surgery' to see if it's pressure related but it hasn't helped. I've tried tying my laces differently and adjusting my sock but no luck. Anyone have an ideas?

SHADES

Ian - that's a very good WAVA %    I do find WAVA a very good race predictor of current fitness,  I put your stats in the Fetch calculator and that gives you a sub 3:07 marathon time, had to adjust it guessing at your age 

https://www.fetcheveryone.com/training-calculators-wava.php?d=13.1&u=miles&h=1&m=29&s=53&g=m&a=45

Re the paces, yes start at the slower end of the range and if the jump is too much or you're tired there's nothing wrong with dropping back to your previous paces, they've done you very well so far.

Big G - I've only been to the USA once, to run NY marathon (highly recommended) and I can remember the TV in the motel which I only switched on to try and get the weather forecast was practically unwatchable due to the amount of adverts.  I'll look on YouTube in a day or so and see if I can find NY.

Cal - try ditching that glute exercise then, it's so hard to know what is doing you good right now and what isn't 

Emmy - is this the same toe that you broke earlier in the year?   As it's already black   so it's already had a battering it might be that you knocked it again and didn't realise at the time, as long as it doesn't look infected it should be OK in a day or so

SHADES

Big G &  Jelly - entries for Tavy13 are open and early bird entries of £8/£10 for entries before the end of 2017.   Bargain and great DD training.

http://www.tavy13.co.uk/

Big_G

Shades, it is a great race, but I'm not 100% sure if I'll be able to do it at the moment - it depends on other race plans.  I'll definitely keep it in mind though.

SHADES

Big G - I expect you're eyeing up a marathon for that date    There's plenty of time, the race does fill but not until a lot closer to race date.

I found a YouTube recording of NY, I only watched 8 minutes of it , it was really good coverage and commentary, then  I went off to have lunch etc.   When I came back later to watch a bit more it's been removed as a company has declared they own the recording.    I've found another one now but haven't watched any of it yet.

Ian5

Cal-Hope this is the start of recovery for you.
Shades-I'm guessing working my wava took a while as you probably started at age 30 
1 thing got pointed out to me that I was happy with from yesterday,my h/rate started about 162 and even after 11 miles it was 165 and very consistent,then jumped to 172 as I pushed for the end and the hill.
Still trying to take in the jump I've had this year and it all started with the easy long miles training for my ultra.

Ian5

Couldn't decide whether to go the club or not tonight,thought I'd jog towards it and see how the legs felt.
As it was they weren't too bad so joined in the session,short and fast uphill then steady loops x7.The idea being if it gets to much I can stop on any loop,managed all 7 and with the run there and back it came to 9.5 miles,not bad for a recovery day :-)

Jelly

Thanks Shades Big G passed on book I will get it back to you soon  

SHADES

Ian5 said:

Shades-I'm guessing working my wava took a while as you probably started at age 30 

No, I didn't.    But only because I remembered your daughter was a doctor so had to be older than 10 

That's great heartrate stats, you have built up such a strong aerobic base.  Good club session, you must be loving all that hill work 

Jelly - there's no rush, I hope you enjoy it. 


Had a lovely run today, weather much milder which I prefer, had a little bit of rain but very pleasant.

Big_G

Shades, yeah, there are a couple of marathons that date, but if they fall through due to being too expensive with hotels etc, I'll get down to Tavy 13.  I've done it twice, and really enjoyed it both times.  I think I need a PA, to help with my booking/logistics  

I was pretty tired most of the day yesterday, but I took the step-dog out for a nice (fairly short) walk, and went to a nice dog friendly pub on the beach, where I had a decent meal for late lunch.  I'm feeling much better today, and in fact I think I fancy a bit of a burn up - I may go for a 12x45-sec effort shortly.

No marathons or events this weekend.  There are a group of six of us who met at University back in 1995 and we get together every now and again, and we're meeting up this weekend in Exeter.  Should be good.  We don't see each other as a group as much as we'd all like, but we're all spread all over the place and it's good we still meet up on occasion.  I Googled what is going on this weekend, and saw a beer festival is taking place nearby, so I'd imagine we'll go there - especially if they're showing the rugby, as a mate is a keen fan of the egg chasing, and England are playing.

1SteveMac

Back to it today. Easy 4 miles. HR way too high, but guess that is due to no running for 2 weeks.

NickW2

Hi all. Just popping in, not got time to catch up properly. I skimmed through and wanted to say really well done to Big G for the double and Ian for the fantastic half time.

We got a running buggy last week and took it out for a spin at the weekend, I pushed the buggy and my wife came along too - the first time she's run in over a year. Very easy pace, we did run/walk for about 2.5 miles, with the running part around 11 min miling.

Then yesterday I tried run-commuting the 6k to the train station - I'd left clothes at work on Friday to change into for the day so I didn't have to carry a bag, ran easy in the morning (8:30ish pace, net downhill) as we don't have showers at work and then ran hard on the way home (7:10 pace). Felt hard work but could have kept going for a bit, and finished fast with last half-mile at 6:40 pace. I'll look to try and do this more regularly if I can.

SHADES

Big G - just researching the logistics of getting to a race and accommodation etc can take hours, far longer than running the event sometimes.  But you have to be disciplined and keep up to date records.  I'd made a note to book a hotel for Newport marathon, I'd already done the research another day so knew where I wanted to stay.  Fortunately I checked my spreadsheet before booking and discovered I had already booked that hotel.   I have a friend that has several times entered the same marathon twice!  I'm sure she is more disciplined now but I did notice recently that her name was listed twice in race results, one as a DNS so she must still be doing it now and then.

I'm not surprised you felt a bit tired yesterday.

You'll enjoy your reunion with your mates, and no running for a change.

Steve - you'll soon settle back into your training and the HR will come down.

Nick - good plans for your future training, with the buggy and your run commute to work.   Deodorant wipes will make the best of no shower but actually you might as well use baby wipes, they'll do the job just as well.


Challenging but good Pilates class this morning.  We were doing a bit of practise in turning our glute muscles on and off which isn't that easy but a good skill to learn especially for running. 

Ian5

Big G-Thats sounds like a good weekend ahead.
Steve-Good to be back at it.
Nick-When you've ran with the buggy a while you will probably find normal running easy.Ive always liked the idea of run/commute but will never work for me logistically.
Shades-Wouldn't say I loved the hills,calves were burning after a couple last night,but tender still but will go for an easy run later,may skip track tomorrow in favour of an easy,will see how I feel.
Looks like Gran Canaria is going ahead so just finishing my plan for then,it does mean I'll miss 4 villages but always next year.

Jelly

I've entered Tavy 13.  

SHADES

Ian - That's good news about Gran Canaria marathon, if conditions are good I think you could get a good PB there   and if not your GFA time another big step towards it.

Jelly - that's great news, it really is a great race and quite a similar course to DD.

steven renton

Ian- good news about Gran Canaria I'm sure you'll smash your pb for the marathon there.
Steve- as it's your first run in 2 weeks there's no doubt your h/r will com down.

Not much time from waking up before I need to set off for work so instead of my usual thoughts of leaving a run until the next day  I went out and done a 4 miler so better than nothing. Hopefully it will start me getting out more.

Big_G

I did my 12x45-sec effort, and I did enjoy it, but I was a fair bit slower than previous weeks.  The whole session was done and dusted in about 35-mins, including warm up and cool down, so can't complain.....although I did get caught in a downpour!

Shades, I find it much easier these days with most of the events that I can enter on line.  I just have an email folder for each race, and stick everything in there relating to that race.  I prefix the folder name with "NOT ENTERED" if there is something still to book, so I don't forget it.   I do however have a minor panic on occasion as I think I've booked the wrong nights in a B&B for the race, but - up until now(!) - I haven't made a mistake.....famous last words!

Ian5

Steven-That's where I managed to fit in my extra mileage,if you can do that just twice a week it's an extra 30 odd miles a month.
Big G/Shades-How you sort the logistics of the amount of races you guys do is amazing,I find it tough enough juggling a race every couple of months.
Shades-In terms of Gran Canaria,I need a good winter with no injuries with it only being 11 weeks away,if not then I'll treat it as a nice weekend away with a long run thrown in and see how it goes.
The only Half I can fit in before then is 2 weeks before,I'm thinking that's a little close even though I usually do 15 easy that day,what's your thoughts?
As for today I managed to dodge the heavy rain and got out for 6.5 miles,I went for the mid point of my new paces(8.31) and it felt fine so it looks like that's where I will be heading.

mowzer

Ian - that's a fantastic pb. Well done 

Emmy - sounds like a very emotional marathon. Loved your report and the photos 

Big G - Congrats on the double 

Shades was right, I'd got the marathons mixed up . I'd completely forgotten about the Ultra Running stuff. I did one from Holt Castle a few years back - I think RV has done a few and one of his ultra series as well. When I ran it was on the 'list', but the numbers were very low. The RD told the 100MC that numbers would be ok the following year, but they were even worse so they removed all of his marathons from the 'list'. Also I think there was some kind of 'disagreement' or 'words said' and Ultra Running have not figured in the marathon list since. A lack of advertising means that the entries won't increase - especially with many newer runners just focusing on numbers and refusing to do anything they think might not count. Ultra Running do some interesting ultras as well (not that I've done any) - not sure how many entries for some of them, but I know Green Man is very popular. Not sure about your marathons counting this time as I believe you have to enter a specific distance- if it was a challenge event and runners just did the distance they wanted on the day then it would count (I think!) 

Big_G

Thanks Mowzer. Without getting into the politics of it all, it's a shame it's not included in some ways. On the first day especially, I was thinking what a great event/course it was. In my view, it's much better than those enigma lakes, in terms of overall enjoyment of the course. 

But, I have to say,  they were really shoddy with the admin. Both days, they asked me what my time was at the end of the event - I assume they had a stop watch, but they still asked me!  Also, it would have been easy to cut a few 100m off from each out-and-back as there wasn't anyone (or even a cone) at the turn around point on the 1st day (there was a person on the 2nd day). Having said that, if you're so inclined, you can cut corners at enigma events as well. If they tidied all that up, I think it would be a good event, but if it doesn't make 'the list' due to a falling out, the numbers won't increase anyway. There was a French guy there doing all 7 and he's on 120ish this year, so I presume other country's 100MC aren't as strict. 

I accept the UK 100MC rules though, and that's what I'd want to join if I ever got to that point, especially having witnessed the shoddy admin at this event. If I get there, another couple to qualify aren't going to make much difference at that point in any case. 

Challenge Events that qualify I suppose are interesting. If this Ultra Co event I did was labelled a Challenge Event, as you said it would currently qualify. I wonder if 100MC may tighten that up in future?

Slowkoala

Just catching up with the thread...!

Well done to Big G on the double, your endurance must be great right now and good to hear you have recovered well.

Congrats too to Ian on the sub 90 HM, a brilliant achievement. 

Good to hear that Cal has had a good run - I hope that means that things are continuing to improve? You’ve been very patient with your injury, so deserve some good luck now!

MF - sorry to hear about the hip, that’s really frustrating. But well done for good and not risking it with a run. Everything crossed for you that it goes well ahead with Cognac.

Shades - are you back running yet or still suffering with the cold?

I had a massage for my PF (which it does seem to be) last week and she advised me to rest over the weekend. It was v frustrating having to watch OH at parkrun! He even dragged me around some shops looking for gear for HIS running, talk about rubbing my nose in it! As well as the massage, the insoles, the spiky ball and new work shoes, I’ve also bought some heel inserts and some K-tape so am now skint as well as injured and already feel fat from lack of exercise! I went to my fitness class last night and the coach said it might help taping it up for a few days to help it calm down. He said it would be OK to continue running if it doesn’t hurt when I run (which it doesn’t) so will go out with club tonight.

SHADES

Steven - it's so easy to say that there's not enough time for a run and plan for tomorrow instead, but if you can squeeze that run in it really does make a difference to your training.

Big G - I keep a simple spreadsheet with a list of races that I might do for the year and then fill in the columns, Entered, Travel, Hotel etc as required.   I keep all the paperwork for each race in a separate plastic sleeve for each race then take that with me on race day.

Ian - I think a half 2 weeks before is ideal.   You've just done a stonking half and then gone to club the following night 9.5 miles and a hill session.   2 weeks before might give you an idea of what pace to run your marathon at.   That's a good start on your new paces

Big G - it's only your first 100 marathons that get scrutinised and checked.  I remember Roger emailing me from Hamburg airport saying he had verified my list.  After that you submit a list so the club updates the members totals on the website but you are expected to follow the club rules and not include disallowable events.

Even if the Halloween races you did were called Challenge it still wouldn't count as too few entrants.

SK - I'm germ free now thanks and was back running on Monday morning. 

Sorry to hear that it does seem to be PF.   I did mention before about taping your foot up, the length of the sole, I expect you'll find the info on YouTube.   Sorry that you had to rest over the weekend but be prepared PF can take months to heal fully so you just have to manage it as best as you can while it heals.  I had a friend who took a year to recover from it.  But it's good that you can run relatively pain free, I would tape the foot for your run too.

Very chilly and a nasty frost here this morning.   Only a couple of icy bits on the pavements and roads though, fortunate as we had a lot of rain yesterday.   But my car is frozen solid and I have to take the car into the garage early so I'll have to de-ice it, part of the joy of not working is not having to de-ice a car on winter mornings.

Big_G

Shades, the event would have counted on the Saturday if it was a Challenge Event as there were more than 25 competitors entered.  The FAQs on the 100MC say something about there doesn't have to be 25 competitors in the marathon itself, but just 25 that have entered the whole Challenge Event.  I wonder if they'll tighten that up in future though?  I am not really sure what to do as the Chairman of the club has said my events count (in an email), but they don't.  If it comes to it, probably I'll get to 52, submit the list, but point out the 2 with a query against then, and supply the email I was sent as well.  A long, long way to go though!

I am taking a group tonight at the club, and someone from that awards ceremony is coming to film me/us.  Could be interesting!  Obviously I'm nominated for the media award, so filming me sitting behind the laptop wasn't considered good enough - can't think why!    

Jelly

Good luck tonight Big G, I can't go as it's a open evening at local 6th form for Daugher. As I'm lady of leisure this week I'm planning and hill and Steps session around Powderham area this afternoon.  

mamafox

Hi everyone

Cal - That's a good sign that you were able to complete a run at least. Have you no idea what your hip problem is? (Am now obsessed about hip injuries)

SK - I didn't realise that you can run with PF. I thought it was a bit like an Achilles injury which stops you completely. Lol at all the stuff you've bought to combat the PF and also lol at going out running shopping with your OH! I know what you mean about feeling fat not running - I haven't run since last Thursday and feel much fatter and unfit   

How long does it take to lose fitness anyway?

Good luck for your awards ceremony Big G. Looking forward to the photos 

Glad to see you're back out there too Shades. Have you got a car problem or is it just going in to be serviced?

On a car note Mr Fox has said the BMW will be ready for my birthday. In two days. 
Hmmmmm.

Yes, the horse jumped on my injured foot. (Opposite side to hip!) Could have been worse though - could have been Morgane the Percheron  Foot has recovered and is just black on the top, so can get shoes on etc. Hip is still niggling walking round normally so I haven't even tried running and I'm going up the walls. I'm determined to do my HM on Saturday (I missed the mara last year due to tendon prob) so I'm not running until then and will just have to see what happens. Quite scary as have absolutely no idea what will happen when I start running but I figure that trying a run now will not make any difference anyway apart from possibly making things worse.