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Shades Marathon Training
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Great news on DD entry
Giant's Head, that's after DD isn't it?
I was hovering between the 20x20sec intervals and the undulating 4x800m intervals, and went for the 800s thinking the short, sharp 20s wouldn't do me much good. Glad I went in the end as I did feel much better last night than I did in the morning.
I am going to wait and see about Cornish and see how I feel Fr/Sat.
I (kind of reluctantly, I have to say!) handed an entry form in last night for the DD, so guaranteed a place. If I do end up doing it, I'm going to have to rejig some of my plans. That double I did has knocked me about, and I was considering a triple at the start of May, but I now think that may be too much a month before DD, based on how I felt after the double. It's a bit strange as I felt generally okay the day after the double, but then felt worse the days after.
more crash course runner. But heard few people say they have lost their mojo after big target. Maybe double was you're target or your PB and this is after affect and you need to take a little time and not too hard on self,
I've still got four more in my diary this year, so I'm hoping I get my running mojo back pronto. The thing is, two of them are around That Blasted Lake (TBL) in Milton Keynes - I really need to stop booking those as often, but it always seems a good idea at the time!
Yeah, Sal messaged me last night to make sure I was okay. I was fine - I just did a last second switcheroo and went into the 800s, more or less as Fizz was about to head off with her group. When I lead a group and I'm trying to count numbers it can be a bit difficult when people are floating around.....I did apologise to Fizz, and she was fine
It ended up being a good session though - our two very quick, young Trotters were both in there, and were pushing each other on. The rest of the group did 4 loops with 2-mins recovery but they did 6 loops with what appeared to be about 30secs recovery. Bonkers.
London for DD excited by the challenge and the unknown, you need to find your butterflies BG.
Big G - I think it was your weekend on the booze that has knocked you back not the double. And I agree with Jelly it's the end of the season and you did your target and that's what's made you feel lethargic and lack lustre right now.
I'm glad you've got your DD entry in although I realise you're not keen right now. I think you'd be well recovered from a triple 4 weeks before DD but you need to plan your races in a way that is comfortable for you.
Although the Cornish is good DD training, this newer course is nothing like as hard as the old route when the first 2.5 miles were uphill so don't worry about the course. The last time I did Cornish I was less than 3 minutes slower than my run at Dublin 3 weeks earlier. One year I helped out on the finish (I was injured) and the winner did a PB on that course, conditions were good that day too. One of the major difficulties with the Cornish is the weather that we can get over Bodmin Moor, I've run this race is atrocious weather but this weekend the conditions look good. And this is a beautiful race and the scenery can be enjoyed when the weather is good.
I'm so unfit but I'm just going to potter round and enjoy it....the things I do for a pasty! There's a 6 hour limit and I've no idea if my hip flexor is healed so I expect I'll have to walk a good deal of it.
I didn't realise you had 4 more left this year, I'll need them for the list soon, I remember you saying you'd entered one of the Enigma ones, not two!
Tough Pilates class again today, my glutes and hamstrings only stopped aching today from the previous class
I've not done Cornish before but it seems an absolute bargain - £25 for a hoodie, medal and pasty - and only an hour or so down the road.
I'll have a think about the triple before DD. I'll hopefully have done another one or two doubles before then, so I'll see how I react after those. I've booked one race of the three as there was an early bird offer, but the other two won't sell out for some time.
Jelly, regarding butterflies, I don't really get that in terms of the "excited" feeling about a marathon. A few years ago I used to get very, very nervous though, but not in an excited way. I used to get to the start line of marathons at the very last minute as all the pre race chit-chat used to put me off (it reminded me of before an exam where people would ask have you revised this or that, and on occasion I hadn't, so would rather not hear it!), but that doesn't bother me any more. In fact I quite like it these days, and loved the whole London experience this year. I think probably the only thing I get that excited/butterfly feeling about is travelling, which I do love. I'm coming across as miserable git possibly, but that nervous butterfly feeling kind of eludes me generally. I do, on occasion, get a "runner's high" where I just feel like I could run and run, which is what I got 13 miles in to Munich when I just thought to myself "Right, let's crack on!", and when that happens it's a great feeling. That doesn't happen to me all that often though...
Big G - It could be like Jelly said about the double being your target. I know once I did my 100k, I didn't really get back into running and wasn't really "up" for Birmingham marathon, even at that time I was more excited about 2018 races!
I would rate the ghost 10's 11/10. I wore them on the second day and the sore knee I had from day one, went away and I had no issues with my feet.
It would take a lot more than bling or ice cream for me to even consider doing Giant's Head. I have done their road marathon, Dorchester, which I loved (except for the love station and short rough off road bit) and am doing it again next year.
Big G - Cornish is a lovely friendly event and as you say good value, you get a cup of tea too. The hoodie goes straight into the bin though, the Cornish are not known for their dress sense
If you are reconsidering your triple you may want to consider doing 2 in 3 days instead. Having a day off in between makes an incredible difference. I once did my 2nd fastest marathon ever 2 days after doing Beachy Head marathon and then a long difficult journey including very little sleep to the next marathon.
Steve - you're definitely a bit poorly, a few more days off. Can take a while to shake off a cough.
I'm sure you're right about losing focus after achieving a certain goal. We can't all be fired up all the time.
steven - good that you're back running. The dog will be hiding from you the next time you say 'walkies'.
Iain - sorry I misunderstood, I thought you'd run in the same pair both days. Yes, I've heard how good the Ghost 10 are reviewed, I think RW gave it highest rating of all the autumn shoes.
For that penciled in triple, it's Plym Trail, North Dorset and Milton Keynes Marathon (already entered), so it would be a shame to miss out on NDVM, but I may do that. I'll decide much nearer the time though.
Regarding marshals for DD, I know a couple of local clubs help out a lot (Dawlish Coasters especially), so maybe they'll provide even more help than usual.
Training question:
I do have a fair few marathons in mind before DD next year. Is there any merit in doing some of them at long run pace as opposed to marathon pace, and basically turning them into training runs? Not all of them, but a few where I don't care about the time in any case. My thought is that it may stop me getting quite so tired and possibly build a bit of endurance which may help when I come to race one, plus all good training for DD. Or is that not the correct thought?
My remaining four this year I have Cornish that you already know about plus:
- 3rd Dec - Nottingham Christmas Marathon
- 9th Dec - Enigma Christmas Marathon
- 19th Dec - Enigma Christmas Cracker
One year I couldn't do NDVM and Ines gave me a refund, so that's an option for you, I just pulled this off the website
Unable to Run
Swapping of numbers is encouraged but the race organiser should be made aware of the swap taking place. The runner retiring should contact the organiser to give the details of the runner taking over the entry. The new runner should then email/post a completed entry form.
If you do not have to somebody to give your place to, you will be offered a refund for your entry ( minus a £2 administration fee ) or to donate your entry fee to the school. Refunds will no longer be available after the 3/05/18.
I see there's a few Dawlish Coasters running DD. Pat C always marshals and I used to tease her as for a couple of years they put her at the Pixie shop and she's not that tall herself.
Well we've sort of been down this road before. You know now how quickly you are recovering from a marathon and doing a 26.2 long run would probably take the same amount of time to recover from. You can't race every marathon for a PB and sometimes you have to make the judgement on how to run it on the start line or several miles in exactly as you've been doing this year. You could decide to run the first half at a certain pace and then slow by a deliberate amount for the 2nd half but I think you should take each one and run as you feel on the day. You've recovered more quickly this year when you've run your PB's and faster marathons as you've felt you've run well. If you were going to try one at long run pace, I think Plym Trail would be a good one to experiment with, so keeping the pace down on the downhill sections and trying to maintain the same pace on the uphill stretches.
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/runnersknees.com/2017/05/02/race-review-the-milton-keynes-marathon/amp/
A June race means that you take your chances with the weather being hot and at worst humid.
This what RW forumite says about Newport course..
I live five miles from the race start. I would say there is a distinct lack of hills on this course. Much of it on quiet rural lanes. I wonder if there are going to be road closures?
Miles 23-25 are in a rather dull industrial area but do allow you to get close and personal with the transporter bridge.
Crossing the SDR Bridge at miles 1 and 25 can be exposed and windy.
Shades, regarding paces, I suppose the thing I'm still confused about is that I'm not doing any long runs at LSR pace. If I look back to those marathons I did in October/early November, the longest run I did between events was 7-miles as I was too tired to do much more, and all the races were basically done at MP (except the first one, where I had a nightmare). So if I continue doing the races at MP, where/how am I getting my long, slow runs in? Ultimately, as well as continuing to do more events, I'd still like to get quicker too. Or does that LSR guideline change a bit if a person starts doing a few more events, as they get their endurance just from doing the events?
Once you start doing lots of marathons, long training runs are history but the difficulty is to maintain the level of fitness that you want and if you're trying to get faster that can be tricky. If you speak to others that do lots of marathons you will find that they are all different in what they do as training, and some don't do any training, needless to say they don't improve. You need to try and assess the training/races/weekly mileage that led up to your better races of the year, of course we're human and our bodies are so unpredictable that you may not yet be able to see a pattern
For me, I need a good winter's training getting my mileage up but then once I start doing lots of marathons if I have a niggle that curtails my training I start to lose my base fitness and my race times decline, as they have this year. I also don't need long runs, what I need is high mileage, I suppose that's because that's just what suits me. My PB's in 2009 and 2010 were all due to high mileage, getting at least one week at 100mpw and a few at 70-80 mpw. For these high mileage weeks, if there wasn't a marathon included I didn't run any distance in training over 10 to 12 miles. I did run a lot of doubles though. If I run a 100 mile week I would expect to run a marathon PB (or as near as I could) 3 weeks later.
I was doing a few doubles too - things like a speed session in the morning, and then say a 5-miler in the evening, so that's 10 miles total for the day without it being a struggle at all, and feeling fresh the next day. I know 50/60 a week isn't especially high, but it's quite high for me.
I need to have a think. I may do a couple of them a bit slower in December/January as I did for that Enigma one and City to Sea, and see if that helps me hit the ground running (so to speak!) in March/April time. Not sure though....!
In terms of getting a "good" time, probably ideally I do need, say, a 3 month break from marathons and target one for a good effort with some decent training. I am a bit worried about this "all eggs in one basket" approach though, as I know that when I set out to do a good time at an event I'm targeting, it doesn't happen for whatever reason (think how long it took me to get sub-4....I think it was mainly in my head that stopped me doing that). Some of my best times have come out of the blue, which I suppose is odd, but I think I just perform better when I don't put myself under pressure with an expected/hoped for result. One stand out race for me was obviously Munich, when I had no idea that I was going to get a PB. Also, on the start line of Leiden I was thinking it was going to be a bad race as preparation had been really poor (I was on holiday) and it was quite hot, and although not a PB I ran really well that day. But when I went out to get sub-4 at an Enigma marathon I ended up with 4:01, and was broken at the end!
Maybe I'll soon start getting used to the marathons a bit more and find that I can do maybe a 10-mile MWLR in between events, without feeling too tired. Basically, I'm still learning what works for me!
I too don't like the targeting of one specific event as so much can go wrong, but I think it's the best way as that keeps the focus on reaching the required level of fitness at what you hope would be the right time. But as you know so many things can go wrong on the day, or it's just not going to happen that day,but at least with our marathon habit it's not that long before we can try again at another event and the training and preparation is behind us. So maybe move the target as to reach a certain level of fitness and preparation by a certain date and then deal with each event after that date as they happen.
I bought my 2018 training diary this morning so that will now spur me into writing my training plan for the winter. I really need to try and get my mileage up as high as I can this winter as I have a 40 mile race at the end of March
Not sure if I said buy flights and accom all booked for GC now so that' my first of next year,so that will be a good place to gauge where I am up to.
That's good news about GC, what are conditions expected to be for the race?