Shades Marathon Training



    Jelly - yes, it must be hard to decide who to nominate and even harder to choose a winner.  It's good that so many are improving.

    Steve - I expect we'll exceed 66 next year.   I'm sure Big G has more than 20 planned and if mowzer goes back to her marathon running that will be a load more.

    Yes, 100km takes a while to recover from, a 50km isn't so bad.

    Ian - it will be moving to a spreadsheet for next year, easier to update than paging back and copying and pasting.   There's still time to add another race if anyone decides to do it.  I guess you were looking at one of the Liverbird double events.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, no more for me either.  If there had been one drivable I may have considered it, but there isn't....I checked ;)  

    Jelly/Shades, yeah it is really interesting.  I won't say how I voted but there are lots of considerations aren't there?  Is it top end speed, or biggest "percentage" improvement, for example?  Could it be based on "quantity" of events or "quality"?  What about variety of events?  Is it based on if the person may step on again even further next year?  What about age graded %?  Or how about an unscientific "level of enthusiasm" of a new member?  All valid considerations possibly, and probably more besides!  I will also be interested to see the winners.

    This isn't necessarily an actual example that we were faced with but possibly an interesting discussion.  Which is "better" - someone who worked hard to knock 1min off a Half time to go under 80mins, or someone who also worked hard to knock 20mins off a Half time to get under 2hrs?  Or someone who managed to get a very good age graded %, although possibly may not have actually improved that much?   I don't necessarily know the answer by the way!
  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    That's exactly the sort of conversation me and RFTH were having. We were taking about a members who keeps smashing her park run times, and one who has step up her marathons,  someone else who did her first half and someone else who has step up groups. All worthy but how to decide. 
  • Big G/Jelly / I feel a lot of clubs value longer distances more, whatever the time. As an example, we have a club trophy, where you have to enter about 15 races to earn points. One of the races next year is doing a 10 mile race alongside their usual 20 mile one. Our club have decided that the most points will go to the first club member in the 20 mile race, then the 2nd club member in the 20 mile race and so on. The first club runner in the 10 mile race will get fewer points than the last club runner in the 20 mile race. So you could break the world record in the 10 mile race but still get fewer points than someone who walks round the 20 mile race!
  • Shades - You could potentially blame BG's post race KFC habit on me i guess as i used to do that on way back from the enimga ones albeit i used Stoke services ;) On the KFC subject we have one in next town over now and i had a set of money off vouchers appear yesterday. i have NOT been yet ;) The wait was about a hour when it first opened.

    Arm not hurting as much today but if i lean weight on it its def still sore
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    SK, that does seem a bit of a strange system!  In our Club Champs, which is based on age grading, this year we had a mixture of races basically from 3K up to 20-milers, and a mix of off-road and road races too.  To finish the champs, a person doesn't necessarily have to do a 20-miler if they don't want to, as there are shorter distances in that category.  Also, we don't necessarily choose "fast" courses (although a couple of the 10Ks next year are PB courses) but tend to have challenging/hilly events too.

    Keith, glad I'm not the only one that has a KFC :)  Possibly more worryingly, I think a couple of the staff at Bristol services KFC are starting to recognise me now.....
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Yes it was liverbird I considered,only because I cannot find a race before GC that I can fit in to see how I'm doing,but I realised I'll get more out of another 20 long run and a 60 mile week than that.
    Managed just over 5 miles tonight,original plan was to aim for half to 10k pace but after 4 miles it was too much effort after work so I jogged the last mile or so back.
  • Cal- good running, looks like your recovery is at last going well.

    Big G- well done on another sub 4, you've had an impressive year of running.

    8 miles for me today in what was quite a mild day. Finally getting to grips with easy pace run.
  • BG - Lol i suggest using the touch screens to order and pay then they dont really look to see who ordered when handing it over ;) For the record i stop at McD's if its a longer stop and morning trip back
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Steven, sounds like your training is going well.

    Keith, thanks for the tip there, but part of me wonders if at some point they'll see me pull up in the car park and have my order ready as I arrive at the till ;)    Are you still on track for hopefully getting to Plym Trail marathon?  As a matter of interest, how many marathons have you done overall?

    I haven't had this for quite some time, where my legs feel worse today then they did yesterday!  Ooooph!
    Big G - it is tricky to try and compare different runner's achievements, I suppose it has to come down to who really put their head down and did the work to reach those targets which might at one time seemed out of reach.   Glad I'm not involved with the voting.

    SK - your club's scoring method is what is usually used for Grand Prix events, maybe they've just stuck with that.   The GP event I used to do at the IOM gave double points for those that ran the marathon, quite rightly so as we had another 4 races in the same week to do and it's much harder to race well immediately after a marathon.

    Keith - I don't think I'd blame you for Big G's post race KFC habit.  

    Stop leaning on your arm, you are supposed to be working ;) 

    Ian - yes I agree, a 20 miler and a 60mpw would be more beneficial. Liverbird's races are popular with the diehards but I believe very open to the wind and cold on that course, usually quite tough conditions.

    Take it easy with your training paces while you are working so hard, nothing to be gained trying to do speedwork when you're tired.

    steven - are you starting to enjoy the slower paces now?

    Well I have run this morning and done my final food shop before Xmas o:) 
    Lovely and mild here, was 10 degrees when I went out at 5 am for my run, so enjoyable in the better weather.  Less traffic too, I guess a lot of folk have finished work for the festive period already.
  • Mild here as well, I think about 9c. Good for shorts and t-shirt for my LT run. 9 miles with 18 and 14 mins at LT pace. Paces were 6:33 and 6:44 for a 6:38 average. Need to hold pace better for the second section of the run. Overall pace was better than Sunday's which is good to see, but would like to see these paces going under 6:30 if I am to PB in March.

    Rest day tomorrow (and day off work), but Xmas curry night with beer tonight. 15 miler planned for Saturday and a 3 mile recovery run on Sunday.
    xpost Big G - I think you had worse DOMS after the Cornish.  this time it must have been the cold combined with the long drive.

    Steve - plenty time to hit those pace targets, it's not that long since you were a bit poorly.    Which marathon are you doing in March?
  • SlowkoalaSlowkoala ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Shades - for our club trophy we always have 50 points to the 1st club runner, 49 to the second and so on. But this is a new thing where there is another race on the same day. I just think sometimes there is too much of a push to get people running longer distances when they first start running. I also think a fast 10 miles should get more points than someone who trots around 20 miles at near-on walking pace!

    Had a tough Hill session last night. I had to walk the last bit of each of the reps, it was too steep. And then when I turned up for the Winter Solstice run at 7am this morning, we did a couple of the hills again! My poor legs. Supposed to be doing track tonight, but I’m not sure my body can cope.
  • Steve - impressive LT run, I’m almost missing that P&D training. (Not!) But from memory, I can usually go about 10-15 secs faster per mile in a HM than I can manage in those LT miles. It’s too hard to get up to speed on your own.
  • Shades - No marathon, target race is Bath half.
    SK - Yeah I do think it's hard to hit the paces on your own. I did find last year I ran quicker in races than in LT training runs, so I do have my fingers crossed that will happen again this time around. I do prefer the long slow runs, compared to the LT runs though, they are so much hard work!! Take it easy if you go to track tonight then, you don't want to push yourself too hard.
    SK - I agree that scoring is unfair unless all the races are in a very short period of time, like a week.   Then those doing the longer distances should be rewarded with extra points.   But if the races are throughout the year then your club's scoring is unfair.  

    But maybe if the events are on the same day and even could be at the same venue then I would agree higher points for the longer distance, so the runner is getting maximum points for that particular event.   It's about getting the most points and completing the events not about who is the fastest runner.  

    Not missing your marathon training then ;)
    Steve - Bath is a fast course, good choice for a PB event.

  • Shades - the races are all throughout the year and it is about speed as you get more points for being 1st. But on this one day, the 20 mile race and the 10 mile one are at the same time. As I’m doing shorter stuff next year, I’ll do the 10 mile one, despite the silly points system. But even if after the 10 mile race I did 2 more laps to warm down (to make 20) and finished ahead of all the other club women running the 20 mile race, I’d still be behind them on points!
    SK - I see your point but agree with the point scoring, 2 events on the same day, and I guess same venue then those doing the longer/tougher event should get more points.   You could run hard for the first 10 miles then ease up for the last 10 and get maximum points.

    Just booked my flights for IOM and no credit card fees  :)  I believe that will be mandatory from Jan 1st, nice to see Easyjet have banned them now.
  • Shades - but I don’t see why a longer distance should be seen as ‘tougher’. I’ll find racing 10 miles a lot tougher than 20 miles at marathon pace. It’s like when races put on a shorter distance and say it’s for kids or those coming back from injury. It just devalues shorter distances IMO.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    SK, as a matter of interest is your club's points done on actual finish times?  So, generally speaking, the younger runners may get better finish times, so higher points (speaking very generally!).  Or is it done on age grading?
    Races for kids or those coming back from injury are fun runs, just like parkrun and no training required for those.   A 20 mile race requires more training, commitment and recovery than a 10 mile race.   If the same points were allocated for the 20 miler as the 10 miler that would devalue the extra effort that the runner made for twice the distance at the same event.  I'm assuming these races are the same event.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Oh gawd.  This is what I look and sound like after crossing the finish line and having a camera pointed immediately at me.  (From 3:55 in the video, for about 10-secs).  I sound full of cold there, although I'm not!

    It's funny, as I thought I'd done a sprint finish ;)  

    There is a guy there who is quite well known from 4:44 - he's done 242 in the calendar year....
    Big G - you were fine, barely out of breath after the finish, and you looked fine, not like you'd just run a marathon.   Foxy looked cold.

    I did nearly turn off the video, that awful guy from NI, goes on all the time about how wonderful he is, he's very unpopular.
  • Shades - will have to agree to disagree on this one :) In a Decathlon event, the max number of points for the 100m event is the same as the 400m or 1500m. All are important distances, requiring different training. And I think someone running say 65 mins for 10miles should get more points than someone running 20 miles in 4.5 hours.

    Big G - the points are calculated on finishing positions. But usually only a couple of people run all events, so one of those usually wins. Quite often you get people walking the last events when injured, which seems ridiculous!
  • Big G- yeah actually starting to look forward to going out for a run.

    Shades- doing the easy pace I am starting to notice and appreciate things I've never saw before. There is times during the run I can feel my body at times wanting to go faster and it takes a lot of control not to give in.

    6 miles today and it was so mild I could actually wear shorts.  Working night shifts from tomorrow night right through to Xmas morning so doubt if I'll get out for any run in that time.
  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    Competition within clubs are hard to be completely fair, I think ours is pretty good with age grading and race distances, if there are other distances on a race one set distance is chosen and everyone has to complete each section of different distances . This year I was first female home on a 10 mile race and got max points but I didn't have any intention of completing all sections, there was no bad feeling from those who were doing championships it's just the way it is, same as I could come in before someone older but they get higher points. It's a fair system as much as it can be. I've looked at 2018 races and I think it's just possible even with Bank holiday races which I have no chance of getting off work. 
  • mowzermowzer ✭✭✭
    Good running from everyone, especially Big G. What a fantastic year you've had Big G with so much improvement on your time  :) Interesting video of Enigma event - do you usually run the wrong way round the lake? When I did those events we always ran round Caldecott clockwise (except once when we did the canal route and finished running halfway round the lake anti-clockwise).

    My local club's championship races just give 1st place 60 points, 2nd 59 etc to all races. There are 2 leagues (fast & young / older, slower or newbie). You don't have to do all races, so you could choose just the shorter ones. Also get points for completing or marshalling at cross country. They also have a separate masters league which is based on age grading achieved in the championship races.

    Personally I found 5k races much tougher than marathons and last time I ran a 5k it took me a week to get my breath back  :s

    So much milder here today. My brother came up to see me this morning - he and sister-in-law are flying to Japan on Christmas Day. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    SK, as a matter of interest, isn't there some theory that 1500m is the toughest distance, as it's too long to be a sprint, but also long enough to need endurance?  So it's on the edge of aerobic and anaerobic systems?

    Mowzer, thanks for your message :)  I've done a couple clockwise and a couple anticlockwise events around there, so not sure how he chooses the direction!
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