Shades Marathon Training

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Comments

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, SK is right that each case is different, but I know in my case it was, unfortunately, the old "rest is best" adage that helped me.  I did all the stretches I was given, but for days/weeks there was no, or very little, improvement.  After a few weeks, I was given more difficult exercises to do, but still no real improvement day-to-day.  Then after some time, I just realised it had gone and I could run again.  Before I was sidelined I tried to run through it as it wasn't really hurting that much when I was actually running, but in my case walking down the stairs first thing in the morning was uncomfortable (not painful necessarily, but I was walking like a penguin!) and when I or the physio prodded it, it was excruciating.  I know that's not what you'd want to hear and of course each case is different, but I just thought I'd say what my symptoms were.  Of course definitely listen to the physio, but you'll know yourself if you can run or not.  In my case I just knew that my running gait/style wasn't normal, so took that to mean I couldn't run.

    SK, I am only a member of one club but there are a few second claim Trotters who are first claim at a local athletics club (not sure if there's any first claim Trotters that are second claim at the AC).  Maybe go along to a session or two at the athletics club you have in mind and see what you think?
  • Shades - Yes, but I do enjoy those early morning "medium long runs", much nicer to clock some miles at easy/long run pace than at terrible LT paces!!

    Ian - That's not great news, but take it easy and recover well.

    SK - Yes I find a lot of runners do train too fast, so not surprising that those at your club were also doing that! Think it's a ego thing, but I'd prefer to save my faster runs for actual races!!

    LT session for me this morning. 10 miles with 22 mins and 18 mins at LT pace. Averaged 6:33 (22 mins) and 6:44 (18 mins). Need to hold the pace better on the second section of these runs as it always drops off a bit too much!!
  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    Shades it seem the coating they put on those bridges are far from non slip on ice, one down on Newton Quay was horrible on Saturday. I'm still staying off my bike, I do miss it and counting down the days until clocks change. I saw you this morning, I was in the car and didn't want to beep to make you jump. It was by tums snack bar on the bridges road. 
  • Ugh, Ian, that's bad luck. I expect you'll be doing a lot of heel drops, huh? I've had achilles issues in the past and they're devilishly hard to get rid of. However I've been able to run through them in most cases. (That's not advice, btw...everyone is different).
    SK, my issue with club runs is that they tend to go too fast. That's the long runs. As yet I've not tried many other sessions though I might try track in Summer when it's light. Don't like training in the dark - I tend to start hibernating after tea time!
    No ice in London, Shades - it definitely felt a bit warmer today. Got by with just a T-shirt under my jacket (the jacket is thin). I did 6 miles easy. This is the first time since my injury that I've run on consecutive days, so I was a little tired towards the end and felt some grumbles (my left hip is grumpier than the right one at the moment, though it seems to be more hip flexor area, and hammy was a bit grumpy once I stopped). Cancelled my Bikram class as I decided putting more stress on hammy was not a great idea, and then got into my sore bits with my collection of balls.
    I'm not worried at the moment - I just need to keep up with the mobility and stretching.
    And on that note, I ordered a new mattress today. My sleep was particularly crap last night and I don't think the old mattress I have now is helping.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Steve - do you do all your training now in the early mornings?   Tough doing the LT sessions at that time.  I expect your pace drops in the 2nd set as your mind has moved onto your forthcoming breakfast ;)

    Jelly - I don't think any surface is immune to the ice.   That bridge at the Quay really catches the frost too, I've had to walk over that before carefully holding the rail.   Where you saw me this morning I slipped a bit on the rubber coating on the railway crossing, that was the first bit of ice I came across this morning.   I don't mind if you hoot at me!!

    Cal - good news on the consecutive run.

    A new mattress can make a whole world of difference to your sleep
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    A lot seem to train to fast but as I'm still new I don't feel right explaining to people,Steve we both follow a lady GH on Strava,and her training is way way faster than mine,yet my 5k-HM Pb's are faster than hers.
    Big G-I'm hoping mine doesn't turn out that bad but will have to wait and see.
    His actual advice was I can run if I want to,but if I want to get rid of it as quick as possible then don't run,if I want to keep some cardio up then cycle or swim,think I'm going to stick with no running and hope it works.just done my first lot of exercises as soon as i got into work.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - I think that's a good decision not to run.
  • Ian - Yes I know who you mean!
    Shades - Yes all early morning, apart from the weekend when I have a later start, however all runs are done before I have any breakfast.

    Easy 7 miles with strides planned for tomorrow.
  • Ian- that's bad luck, hopefully with the advice of the physio you'll run a good race at GC.

    8 miles easy for me this afternoon. Slightly quicker than I wanted but still not to quick.
  • mamafoxmamafox ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Ian - That is really annoying news about your foot. I hope you are not struck down too badly with that and at least can keep running for your sanity's sake if nothing else. Sounds definitely a good idea not to run before your race. The advantages of not running far outweigh the disadvantages IMO.
    If it's any consolation I didn't run for three whole weeks (apart from a half) before my last marathon and it went ok. Bit slower than I would have liked but all things considered ok.

    Cal - I am well jealous of you getting a new mattress. We did some work to the bedrooms this summer and I had a big clean out and changed everything round and ceremoniously dragged our old mattress outside to add to the heap of junk waiting to be burnt.

    After some internet research into new mattresses and realising how much a good one costs we went back outside and dragged the old one off the junk heap and back upstairs again   :|

    Some lacklustre running from me. Just can't seem to get back into a rhythme and every run seems so sluggish. Sunday's was an acceptable outing (still not into double figures though) but this morning's effort was AWFUL. Honestly if I'd been in a car I'd be checking I hadn't left the bloody handbrake on. Nightmare.

    Anyway, to cheer me up I've been having a look at some different marathons and quite like the sound of the marathon des forts de Perigord. It's not too far away and is a trail marathon taking in some interesting sites. It's on the 18th March so I might have actually got into double figures by then  :#:#:#
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Steve - do you have breakfast when you start doing your longer weekend runs?

    steven - when is your next race?

    mamafox - shame about the mattress.  Mattresses seem to be one of those things that has increased in price a lot in a short time, definitely something to be bought in the sales and not cheap then.

    You'll soon get that running rhythm back, you did have a really nasty accident plus not being able to run before that with your knee stitched up.  Are you still wearing the neck collar?  Is your back OK now?

    18th March, that will soon come round :) 

    Cold this morning but no ice, had a lovely run although nasty biting cold wind on return journey.
  • I've gone for a super-basic one - £200 in the sale (which also includes the cost of them getting rid of my old one). I ended up choosing that one because I wanted a mattress that could be flipped (the one I have now had a soft topping which meant it could not be flipped, so now it sags on one side) and I also hate memory foam.

    I am trying to figure out my schedule for the next few days. Today is a non-running day so I should run tomorrow (especially as it's a Bikram only day at the studio, and that is my least favourite class so the one I'm happiest about dumping for a run). But...I want to do parkrun on Saturday. And then I want to do a long run on Sunday. So that would be three days in a row and my body is pretty grumpy today after two in a row so that is not a good idea. I could move the long run to Monday but then I'd have to do laps of Tooting Common as my other longer routes involve crossing main roads (and breathing in more fumes as a result). I probably can't run Tuesday as the mattress is coming at I don't know what time. Ugh it's doing my head in.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, sounds like a good decision there.

    MF, great news that you're looking at a March marathon :)  I do have a good mattress (it's a Silent Night one), and I looked in Benson's Beds and other places, and then went an ordered it online.  I literally saved £100s on it, which is crazy really.  Same with my bedroom furniture - I found out the manufacturer of the items I wanted and got the best price I could online, with a quote.  I was going to order it on line, but I went into the local furniture shop with the quote, and they price matched.  £100s saved again.  They wouldn't offer me their 0% finance offer as I had such a large discount, which is fair enough, but it just goes to show the markup.

    From my sick bed I entered Salisbury 54321 yesterday, which is in August.  I think there are a few Trotters doing it, so it should be a good day out - I know Mowzer likes this event too.  For those who don't know, it's an offroad/trail race.  City To Sea was on good footpaths for the majority of the first 20 miles and the last 6 miles off road, so 54321 will be my first proper trail event, although LDWA Devonshire Dumpling I think is also mainly off-road, but I believe some on cycle paths.

    I also cancelled a marathon that I was supposed to be doing in February.  I was dubious about it anyway as it is loops of a muddy trail and I looked at it again and thought "Do you know what, I just don't fancy that", so cancelled it and got a refund (80%).  The race was originally only £18, which is why I entered it, but potentially slipping/sliding around there isn't what I want from an event.

    I am much, much better but still got a niggly cough and a bit of a tight chest.  I hope to do parkrun on Saturday, but I'll just see how I am.  I'll be honest and say I've had my eye on Sunday's Gloucester Winter Marathon all week in case I suddenly got better, but I just don't think that's going to happen.  Also I had my eye on Day 2 of Plym Trail but he's sold out now, for the first time I think.  I didn't enter Day 2 as well in case this cold doesn't shift as I don't want to lose the entry fee (he's said no transfers etc).  I was supposed to be doing 3 marathons (as a minimum, as I was thinking about Gloucester too, although hadn't entered it) in Jan, but it'll probably just be the one, if I'm lucky!  Frustrating, but there's nothing I can do really.
  • Shades - The plan is not too for this training block, as my longest run will be 18 miles, so I'm going to try to do them all fasted. Will get back to having something before my 20+ milers start though.

    7 miles with strides today, overdressed a bit as was way too warm by the time I'd finished!!
  • JugulaJugula ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    We bought a new mattress last year, We also invested in a couple of goose down pillows at an eye watering £65 a piece, however I think they were well worth the investment as they pump up so big you only need one and are incredibly comfortable and my neck and headaches have vastly improved. 
    11 miles this morning lovely cold damp and sunny morning.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    First 24 hours of exercises done,when I'm walking around it feels fine and wouldn't know anything is wrong but when I press in I can feel it.1 run in a week though is starting to pester at me.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - even for those of us that don't work it's still not easy to schedule our training ;)   Could you tag on the extra miles after parkrun to give you a long run that day?  Then rest Sunday, easy run Monday, stay home Tuesday.

    Big G - fancy entering a marathon from your sickbed! ;) 

    I think it wouldn't be wise to run a marathon in this weather if you're not 100%.   

    From Davey's email about the Plym Trail, he said he's got a waitlist so from that I assumed he is allowing transfers for anyone that couldn't run, maybe I misunderstood that.

    It is frustrating when race plans go awry but unfortunately that's one of the negatives of distance running. 

    Steve - well 18 isn't too bad fasted.   I run every day fasted except for long runs, but I'm not doing long runs at the moment.   Often on a Sunday I may go out later so will eat something first, last weekend it was so cold on Sunday I didn't want to run fasted so had a small bowl of porridge and I think that helped in the icy weather.

    Jugula - goose down pillows sound divine :) 

    Ian - that's good that you can't feel it when walking around.


    Another killer Pilates class, I did enjoy it though.
  • JugulaJugula ✭✭✭
    Shades, they are, I'm glad we invested in them when we had some spare cash. Neither of us smoke or drink so the odd luxury item is ok.
     I'm enjoying not working very much but have to be a bit careful with money or lack of it, with me its music, cds and vinyl as well as equipment to play it. This morning I've had a post run listening indulgence of 70's vinyl, takes me back to being a teenager!
  • Shades- I have the Alloa H/M in March before the Stirling marathon in April so some time away yet. Going to search additional half''s to run and trying to convince myself to sign up for a 3rd marathon.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Jugula - it's good to treat yourself to a bit of luxury now and then, sleep is so important too.

    Steven - half marathons are very good marathon preparation.   I'm sure we can find you another marathon to do ;) 

    Cold this morning but not unpleasant except it was very icy and I had to cut my run short as I ran out of safe surfaces to run on.   Fed up of this cold weather :#
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, I know what you mean.  But try and think ahead and know that resting a bit now will help you came back quicker.  I know it's difficult though :(

    Jugula, this is the first time I've verbalised this (or at least written it down!), but I'm seriously thinking about stopping drinking (or at the very least, drastically reducing the amount I drink).  A few things have happened over the last 2 or 3 months and I'm really questioning if I actually enjoy it any more!  I mean really enjoy it.  The driver for this is my running - I did an unplanned "Dry July" in 2017 and that happened to coincide with some really good training by me (double days, my highest weekly mileage outside of a marathon weekend, etc), which isn't a coincidence I don't think.  It's not that I (often) get drunk or anything, but I am just seriously questioning if I need it.  It'll be a big change for me; all of my socialising is drink/pub/restuarant based, all my friends are drinkers, I'm a member of CAMRA, I go to beer festivals in the summer etc etc.  But still, I'm considering it.  One interesting thing is that now I am thinking this, I can see how much alcohol is such a part of life in the UK - adverts, TV shows, displays in supermarkets, friends posting photos of their beers whilst on holiday.  My favourite show recently has been Peaky Blinders - I love it, but those lads drink a lot of whisky, and I noticed it in other shows.  I went to see The Greatest Showman, which is a PG film, and even in there the main character was drinking to celebrate, or drinking to commiserate etc. It's everywhere!  

    I'm waffling, but I'm doing Dry January at the moment, and I've done it before - it's no issue.  But I wonder if something like "Dry January" actually makes the focus even more about the beer!  I.E, a person gets to 1st Feb and lets rip on the beer, as they've done the month (and probably wake up with a hangover on 2nd Feb).  I imagine for most people they do Dry January in an attempt to detox a bit, or not make drinking as much a part of their life.  But I wonder if in someways come 1st Feb, Dry Jan has had the opposite effect as the focus in January is about not drinking?  Anyway, I'm 100% going to do Dry January and also Dry February (this will also include going on holiday, with no booze, which will be a first for me), and then see how I feel.  Come 2nd Feb, that will be the longest time without a drink for 20+ years.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Jugula-That seems a lot for pillows,but if it's helped with headaches and sore neck then it's well worth it.
    Shades/Steve-How far is the most you would run fasted? Most I've done is 10 and have considered doing further but unsure on the benefits.
    Big G-I stopped drinking a few years back,the only time I drink now is when I meet some friends who live far away visit,but that's only 3 or 4 times a year.
    Steven-There's plenty of marathons in the north of England if you don't find any closer that you fancy.
    Seen a guy I follow on Strava has said he is out for 3 months with achilles tendon  :'(  just hoping mine isn't as bad,wish I hadn't ran through it now but can't change it.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, I was out for about that :(  You can't change what you've done, but really if it's painful to touch, I wouldn't run (even if it's manageable when you run).  That's just from my own experience and I know we're all different.  It can be nasty.  There was a thread back when this forum was buzzing.  I've just dug it out, but please note it's not particularly comfortable reading.  There was a guy on there - Also-Ran - who was very, very knowledgeable and a very good runner, who suffered a lot.  On there he wrote "My observation is that Alfredsson's trials were based on achillies Tendinopothy where THE PATIENT WAS NOT RUNNING DURING THE REHABILITATION STAGE", which I think pretty much sums up what I had to do.
    https://forums.runnersworld.co.uk/discussion/277304

    There were a few trolls on that thread (Dave on that thread was a t***, putting it bluntly), but Also-Ran knows his stuff.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - crikey that's a big decision for you to make, I don't mean that you are in any way a heavy drinker but I know you have a lot of your social life around pubs/beer fests etc.   

    You're right this country has a huge emphasis on celebrating everything with alcohol.  Now that more evidence is coming to light about the damage alcohol does to our health and other aspects such as the huge cost to the NHS etc I think gradually there will be fewer and fewer folk drinking as time goes on.   I believe that a lot of youngsters (students even) are choosing not to drink.   We have a lot of businesses in this country that rely on the drink industry so any government intervention will be gradual.

    I hardly drink at all now but when I have a drink I don't drink much and I don't miss it.   Funny when I went to the Mavericks Xmas do I took my car, it was at the Sandygate Inn, and I thought I'd decide when I got there whether I would drink or not.   I could have had a few drinks and run out in the morning to collect the car but I decided not to drink and amazingly there were quite a few others not drinking either and it wasn't just because they were driving.   That was the first Xmas do I've ever been to where everyone wasn't planning to drink as much as possible and I can only put that down to a subtle change in attitude.   

    I think the idea of Dry January is to make folk realise they can manage without a drink, or not as the case might be!  

    Ian - Generally I wouldn't run any further than about 12 miles fasted, that's about the same distance that I run without taking a drink.   Running fasted is supposed to increase your ability to use fat as fuel, but I think there can be negative effects if a runner is always running under fuelled.  I choose to run fasted, as it's convenient for me to run early in the morning, that is my preferred time to run.   I do have a coffee half milk/half water and a couple of glasses of water and I'd probably have 2 coffees if I was running over 9 miles.

    Don't beat yourself up about running with that injury, a few runs wouldn't have made any difference.   That type of injury is an overuse injury and takes a while to develop, unfortunately it can take a while to recover from too.   It's impossible to know when you get a little niggle whether it's just a random pain or an injury developing.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-12 is the same as I run without taking a drink so might try that fasted sometime also,maybe once a week to see how it goes to start with.
    Big G/Shades-Im hoping I've escaped the worst,it feels ok when I touch it and have to dig in before I feel soreness.
    I know what you mean about knowing the difference,with running so many miles I often feel little niggles and then they are fine again,I'm wondering whether the calf/ankle issue I had a month or so ago was the start and I didn't realise as that seemed to heal but then the achilles started soon after.
  • Ian - I think 18 is the most I have done fasted (properly!). I've actually done 20 miles before, I think it was probably in the run up to my first marathon in 2015. I didn't have time for breakfast as needed to get back for something or other after my run, but thought it would be OK. Anyway, was feeling tough around 17/18 miles and when I got back after the 20 miles felt really rough and had to eat straight away as felt a bit wobbly on my feet!! Not good...I learnt a lesson that day!!

    So to answer the question.....most I would do now is 18 miles. I think for my 20+ milers I need a coffee and something to eat before I go. Benefits are to utilise fat for fuel (I believe), but takes time to adapt to running further. However I do make sure I have eaten a good meal the night before too.
  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    I'm doing dry until the 20th as It's Presentation night and basically I don't get out much socially and a night out for us is mormally down local meal and two drinks and home again. I doing to focus diet and healthy eating,  rather than breaking drinking patterns.  Normally my drink pattern is share a bottle with hubbie on Saturday night but if racing happy to leave it. I do enjoy a pint after a race but it's normally once I've got home and I don't go mad. I'm not a elite so don't worry about it too much. I can't do hang overs now so that influence my stop switch and have a complete  alcohol ban where driving is involved one is one too many and think about morning after too. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, not sure if I want to shine a light on this really, as I haven't made my mind up yet!  But over the last few months I've started questioning things:
    - I drink to relax.  Do I?  Do I actually feel relaxed?  Maybe for a while whilst actually drinking, but the morning after, even after say only 3 pints, I know I've had a drink as I feel at least a bit dehydrated.  Or I may have had a disturbed night's sleep as I need to use the loo in the night.  That doesn't relax me at all - it stresses me out - and it impacts my running.
    - I need it to socialise.  That is definitely incorrect.  When I've been out with friends when I've been sober, it's entertaining - they talk gibberish most of the time, which is what I would do if I'd been drinking with them.  I can still enjoy myself, and of course make a quick exit when they get too drunk!
    - I enjoy the time spent drinking.  Is spending x-hrs in the pub, time well spent?  Not really.  I've got other stuff I want to do that I keep putting off!
    - I like the taste.  Yes, I do like the taste of some beer, but with spirits I nearly always have a mixer as I don't like the taste of it neat.  So a broad "I like the taste" isn't accurate either.

    Loads of things really, but on NYE I just kind of realised "I'm done with this!".  I was out with friends in the afternoon, in a round, drinking too quickly and too much and I just wasn't enjoying it.  I'm not saying I'll never drink again, but I want to re-address the balance I think - I think Jan/Feb being dry will be interesting to see how I feel.

    One thing I do like is a red wine with a meal out.  I would miss that, and it's reasons like that which is why I'm not saying I'm never going to drink again.

    And you're right; I think the current young generation is the first one that drinks less than the previous generation.  Lots of reasons probably, but maybe things like facebook means those young people don't want to embarrass themselves, and see it plastered on facebook/insta the next day, so just don't drink to excess.

    Jelly, yeah I know I'm not an elite, but I think reducing will help in lots of other ways.  Running was the driver, but it'll free up more time etc.  I'm not drinking at the Awards night, and wasn't going to anyway as I wanted to be fresh in case I decided to Plym Trail day 2 (which I probably won't be doing anyway, but I'm still not drinking there).
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Big G - interesting thread, but scary reading in places.     Jugula has had a long history of achilles problems.

    Ian - unless you have a trauma injury it's very difficult to pinpoint when/what may have caused an injury and some will just develop over time.    Unfortunately it's the worst part of distance running.

    When you get out of bed in the morning is there any soreness in the achilles then? 

    When you do try a longer run fasted pop a couple of sweets in your pocket then if you do get an energy crisis they should get you home OK without feeling too awful.

    Steve - I agree, a good meal the night before is essential for a long fasted run, or any long run really.
  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    Big G wasn't knocking your decision, respect it or that only elite can't drink, just simply I like a pint after a race. We all have times when we reassess what is doing us harm, my bigger addiction is unhealthy food and my relationship with it hense My focus now and returning to slimming world as I know my running will suffer for it and being a yo yo dieter there are issues and not as simple as saying don't have it.  I'm lucky as my close social circle are not big drinkers so easy to avoid. 
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